Hey all,

Been looking into LoRa recently, not really for it's intended purpose,
which is IoT, but for SMS, IRC and a bunch of other internet-like
activities.

I've seen a number of projects, be it meshes, specialised hardware, or
both, which utilise LoRa for things such as SMS messaging without a
service provider, transfer of images and video, and even things like RTC
(but that's really pushing boundaries).

My plan was to try and setup and bodge together a mesh that would allow
for at least:

- SMS and/or XMPP chat capabilities (chatrooms would be difficult to get
right for XMPP, but device to device is easy as pie)

- The use of BBSes and Email (you know the score, use something over
LoRa to connect to something like a Pi or other PC running a board)

- And possibly the serving of things like Gopher pages over LoRa as
well. (really need to dig into this, probably isn't possible)

There's a very DIY ethos around this, my hope is that being low-powered
and radio-based, but still modern and quick, is that we can do things
that might normally be done theoretically over packet radio and AX.25,
licence free (and with less over a learning curve).

Anyway, just wanted to share that with the world!

Joe. H (~rebello)
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

! ( Owlways watchin' ya! )
! _ /
! \o.o
! |_|)
! ---^-^---------------------------

I've some doubt about speed and range but decided to stay ommmPtimistic.

Maybe some speed and range infos can be found there?

https://hackaday.com/blog/?s=lora+mesh

My LoRa and HC-12 modules still are waiting to get tested ...

https://www.ebyte.com/en/product-view-news.aspx?id=660 https://statics3.seeedstudio.com/assets/file/bazaar/product/HC-12_english_datasheets.pdf

... and my UUCP experiments currently only are inching forward at speed
in the ångström per liter coffee steps... :-/
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

On 21/03/2021 16:29, yeti wrote:

! ( Owlways watchin' ya! )
! _ /
! \o.o
! |_|)
! ---^-^---------------------------

I've some doubt about speed and range but decided to stay ommmPtimistic.

Maybe some speed and range infos can be found there?

https://hackaday.com/blog/?s=lora+mesh

My LoRa and HC-12 modules still are waiting to get tested ...

https://www.ebyte.com/en/product-view-news.aspx?id=660 https://statics3.seeedstudio.com/assets/file/bazaar/product/HC-12_english_datasheets.pdf

... and my UUCP experiments currently only are inching forward at speed
in the ångström per liter coffee steps... :-/

Oh yes, there will be speed and range issues for sure, but...

- I may have found a way around range issues, although it would require
at least a dozen nodes in geographical cluster.

- Patience, we must remember that this will not be up to snuff with the
speed we are used to nowadays, I think the bitrate is around 50kb/s, so
we're looking at late 80s/early 90s speed, if that, which I can live with.

I'll have to check that link out! Thanks ;)

I must admit, I thought about UUCP over LoRa, it would be mighty fine
and handy for me, but I'm really getting ahead of myself at the place
I'm at now with the idea.

On an unrelated note, I have also purchased a copy of the UUCP bible,
and I'm crossing my fingers to see if it makes it across the Atlantic
safely!
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

"Joe (~rebello) Harley" <rebello@tilde.club> writes:

Oh yes, there will be speed and range issues for sure, but...

- I may have found a way around range issues, although it would
require at least a dozen nodes in geographical cluster.

MESH THE PLANET!

- Patience, we must remember that this will not be up to snuff with
the speed we are used to nowadays, I think the bitrate is around
50kb/s, so we're looking at late 80s/early 90s speed, if that, which I
can live with.

I'd expect it to be more like 1200-2400 bytes/s over 1-2km. In FidoNet
days that sure would was ok to get the daily mail and news.

On an unrelated note, I have also purchased a copy of the UUCP bible,
and I'm crossing my fingers to see if it makes it across the Atlantic
safely!

;-)



But now for something not really completely different:

I've UUCP'ed 2 systems in my LAN over TCP/540:

! (yeti@kumari:1)~$ sudo uupoll cubietruck1
! uucico cubietruck1 - (2021-03-22 04:38:38.82 3208) Calling system cubietruck1 (port TCP)
! uucico cubietruck1 - (2021-03-22 04:38:39.11 3208) Login successful
! uucico cubietruck1 - (2021-03-22 04:38:41.17 3208) Handshake successful (protocol 'e')
! uucico cubietruck1 uucp (2021-03-22 04:38:41.17 3208) Sending rmail yeti@cubietruck1 (D.0017) (1938 bytes)
! uucico cubietruck1 uucp (2021-03-22 04:38:41.19 3208) Sending rmail yeti@cubietruck1.localnet (D.0018) (3096 bytes)
! uucico cubietruck1 uucp (2021-03-22 04:38:41.25 3208) Receiving rmail yeti@cubietruck1.localnet (3646 bytes)
! uucico cubietruck1 uucp (2021-03-22 04:38:41.28 3208) Receiving rmail yeti@cubietruck1.localnet (3646 bytes)

Looking at UUCP's output while transferring stuff I get a flashback of
my FidoNet memories.

Mail now somehow bounces between the systems but doesn't reach the user
yet. But that's a new step forward just reached yesterday, so I'm still
kind of happy about that small part of success.

!
! ( ... one ångström per liter coffee! )
! /
! _ _ _@o _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
!

I better should have used different systems as lab rats. These two
systems cannot be experimented on really freely, so I need to redo this
setup with systems that have no other jobs I need to run uninteruptedly.



License free long distance transceivers are really rare or even non
existent. With expensive antennae you can get ~10km out of e.g. ESP32
modules:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCLb2eItDyE

IIRC that was half duplex and even without WiFi handshake, but who
cares? If all else fails use 2 such links. Problem: If you use
directional antennae, you have to lower the transmitter power by the
gain of the antenna to stay legal. But a "good" antenna does not only
send "better", it receives with that gain too. Good antennae at least
cost their weight in silver... :-/ ... sigh!

I've no peers to experiment with in the range that can be expected with
legal transceivers, so will start with UUCP over (W)LAN, VPN and phone.

Here (.de) a typical (landline) phone plan is a nation wide flatrate, so
I'll look for others interested in using that medium too.
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

"Joe (~rebello) Harley" <rebello@tilde.club> writes:

Oh yes, there will be speed and range issues for sure, but...

- I may have found a way around range issues, although it would
require at least a dozen nodes in geographical cluster.

MESH THE PLANET!

- Patience, we must remember that this will not be up to snuff with
the speed we are used to nowadays, I think the bitrate is around
50kb/s, so we're looking at late 80s/early 90s speed, if that, which I
can live with.

I'd expect it to be like 1200-2400 bytes/s over 1-2km. In FidoNet days
that sure was ok to get the daily mail and news.

You mean kilobit/s?

! (yeti@kumari:2)~$ dc <<< '50000 8 / p'
! 6250

...wouldn't be sooo far off my guesses...

On an unrelated note, I have also purchased a copy of the UUCP bible,
and I'm crossing my fingers to see if it makes it across the Atlantic
safely!

;-)



But now for something not really completely different:

I've UUCP'ed 2 systems in my LAN over TCP/540:

! (yeti@kumari:1)~$ sudo uupoll cubietruck1
! uucico cubietruck1 - (2021-03-22 04:38:38.82 3208) Calling system cubietruck1 (port TCP)
! uucico cubietruck1 - (2021-03-22 04:38:39.11 3208) Login successful
! uucico cubietruck1 - (2021-03-22 04:38:41.17 3208) Handshake successful (protocol 'e')
! uucico cubietruck1 uucp (2021-03-22 04:38:41.17 3208) Sending rmail yeti@cubietruck1 (D.0017) (1938 bytes)
! uucico cubietruck1 uucp (2021-03-22 04:38:41.19 3208) Sending rmail yeti@cubietruck1.localnet (D.0018) (3096 bytes)
! uucico cubietruck1 uucp (2021-03-22 04:38:41.25 3208) Receiving rmail yeti@cubietruck1.localnet (3646 bytes)
! uucico cubietruck1 uucp (2021-03-22 04:38:41.28 3208) Receiving rmail yeti@cubietruck1.localnet (3646 bytes)

Looking at UUCP's output while transferring stuff I get a flashback of
my FidoNet memories.

Mail now somehow bounces between the systems but doesn't reach the user
yet. But that's a new step forward just reached yesterday, so I'm still
kind of happy about that small part of success.

!
! ( ... one ångström per liter coffee! )
! /
! _ _ _@o _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
!

I better should have used different systems as lab rats. These two
systems cannot be experimented on really freely, so I need to redo this
setup with systems that have no other jobs I need to run uninteruptedly.



License free long distance transceivers are really rare or even non
existent. With expensive antennae you can get ~10km out of e.g. ESP32
modules:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCLb2eItDyE

IIRC that was half duplex and even without WiFi handshake, but who
cares? If all else fails use 2 such links. Problem: If you use
directional antennae, you have to lower the transmitter power by the
gain of the antenna to stay legal. But a "good" antenna does not only
send "better", it receives with that gain too. Good antennae at least
cost their weight in silver... :-/ ... sigh!

I've no peers to experiment with in the range that can be expected with
legal transceivers, so will start with UUCP over (W)LAN, VPN and phone.

Here (.de) a typical (landline) phone plan is a nation wide flatrate, so
I'll look for others interested in using that medium too.
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

"Joe (~rebello) Harley" <rebello@tilde.club> writes:

Oh yes, there will be speed and range issues for sure, but...

- I may have found a way around range issues, although it would
require at least a dozen nodes in geographical cluster.

MESH THE PLANET!

- Patience, we must remember that this will not be up to snuff with
the speed we are used to nowadays, I think the bitrate is around
50kb/s, so we're looking at late 80s/early 90s speed, if that, which I
can live with.

I'd expect it to be like 1200-2400 bytes/s over 1-2km. In FidoNet days
that was ok to get the daily mail and news.

You mean kilobit/s?

! (yeti@kumari:2)~$ dc <<< '50000 8 / p'
! 6250

...wouldn't be sooo far off my guesses...

On an unrelated note, I have also purchased a copy of the UUCP bible,
and I'm crossing my fingers to see if it makes it across the Atlantic
safely!

;-)



But now for something not really completely different:

I've UUCP'ed 2 systems in my LAN over TCP/540:

! (yeti@kumari:1)~$ sudo uupoll cubietruck1
! uucico cubietruck1 - (2021-03-22 04:38:38.82 3208) Calling system cubietruck1 (port TCP)
! uucico cubietruck1 - (2021-03-22 04:38:39.11 3208) Login successful
! uucico cubietruck1 - (2021-03-22 04:38:41.17 3208) Handshake successful (protocol 'e')
! uucico cubietruck1 uucp (2021-03-22 04:38:41.17 3208) Sending rmail yeti@cubietruck1 (D.0017) (1938 bytes)
! uucico cubietruck1 uucp (2021-03-22 04:38:41.19 3208) Sending rmail yeti@cubietruck1.localnet (D.0018) (3096 bytes)
! uucico cubietruck1 uucp (2021-03-22 04:38:41.25 3208) Receiving rmail yeti@cubietruck1.localnet (3646 bytes)
! uucico cubietruck1 uucp (2021-03-22 04:38:41.28 3208) Receiving rmail yeti@cubietruck1.localnet (3646 bytes)

Looking at UUCP's output while transferring stuff I get a flashback of
my FidoNet memories.

Mail now somehow bounces between the systems but doesn't reach the user
yet. But that's a new step forward just reached yesterday, so I'm still
kind of happy about that small part of success.

!
! ( ... one ångström per liter coffee! )
! /
! _ _ _@o _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
!

I better should have used different systems as lab rats. These two
systems cannot be experimented on really freely, so I need to redo this
setup with systems that have no other jobs I need to run uninteruptedly.



License free long distance transceivers are really rare or even non
existent. With expensive antennae you can get ~10km out of e.g. ESP32
modules:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCLb2eItDyE

IIRC that was half duplex and even without WiFi handshake, but who
cares? If all else fails use 2 such links. Problem: If you use
directional antennae, you have to lower the transmitter power by the
gain of the antenna to stay legal. But a "good" antenna does not only
send "better", it receives with that gain too. Good antennae at least
cost their weight in silver... :-/ ... sigh!

I've no peers to experiment with in the range that can be expected with
legal transceivers, so will start with UUCP over (W)LAN, VPN and phone.

Here (.de) a typical (landline) phone plan is a nation wide flatrate, so
I'll look for others interested in using that medium too.
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

send @ cubietruck1

: (yeti@cubietruck1:2)~$ mail -s clzzl yeti@kumari.local <<<"$(date)"

read @ kumari

: (yeti@kumari:47)~/Maildir/cur$ cat 1616395011.V801I201037M330697.kumari\:2\, : Return-Path: <yeti@cubietruck1.local>
: X-Original-To: yeti@kumari.local
: Delivered-To: yeti@kumari.local
: Received: by kumari.local (Postfix, from userid 10)
: id 43582281275; Mon, 22 Mar 2021 06:36:51 +0000 (UTC)
: Received: by cubietruck1.local (Postfix, from userid 1000)
: id 88D9715F0D2; Mon, 22 Mar 2021 06:36:43 +0000 (UTC)
: Subject: clzzl
: To: <yeti@kumari.local>
: X-Mailer: mail (GNU Mailutils 3.5)
: Message-Id: <20210322063643.88D9715F0D2@cubietruck1.local>
: Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2021 06:36:43 +0000 (UTC)
: From: yeti <yeti@cubietruck1.local>
:
: Mon Mar 22 06:36:43 UTC 2021



send @ kumari

: (yeti@kumari:1)~$ mail -s clzzl yeti@cubietruck1.local <<<"$(date)"

read @ cubietruck1

: (yeti@cubietruck1:2)~/Maildir/new$ cat 1616395112.Vb302I9f92dM252156.cubietruck1
: Return-Path: <yeti@kumari.local>
: X-Original-To: yeti@cubietruck1.local
: Delivered-To: yeti@cubietruck1.local
: Received: by cubietruck1.local (Postfix, from userid 10)
: id 1489715F256; Mon, 22 Mar 2021 06:38:31 +0000 (UTC)
: Received: by kumari.local (Postfix, from userid 1000)
: id 00693281291; Mon, 22 Mar 2021 06:38:19 +0000 (UTC)
: To: yeti@cubietruck1.local
: Subject: clzzl
: MIME-Version: 1.0
: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
: Message-Id: <20210322063820.00693281291@kumari.local>
: Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2021 06:38:19 +0000 (UTC)
: From: yeti <yeti@kumari.local>
:
: Mon 22 Mar 06:38:19 UTC 2021


Ok!
With .local domain suffix it works.
I need to know more about postfix.


That was today's ångström?
Time for a biiig bucket of caramel-chili-caffeine-roibos-tea!
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

Looks I screwed up the followup to the above. I have it as sent in GNUS
but dont find it in the group.

A meanwhile extended version of it is at: https://tildegit.org/UUCP-Grassroots/incubator/wiki/Home#scratching-my-head-without-seeing-success

And now the bucket of tea!
\o/
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

On 22/03/2021 07:58, yeti wrote:

Looks I screwed up the followup to the above. I have it as sent in GNUS
but dont find it in the group.

A meanwhile extended version of it is at: https://tildegit.org/UUCP-Grassroots/incubator/wiki/Home#scratching-my-head-without-seeing-success

And now the bucket of tea!
\o/

Haha! Minor success! \o/

My UUCP Bible has *just* arrived, so I'll to some similar testing like yourself and get back to you ;)
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

On 22/03/2021 06:11, yeti wrote:

MESH THE PLANET!

YEAH!!! \o/

I'd expect it to be like 1200-2400 bytes/s over 1-2km. In FidoNet days
that was ok to get the daily mail and news.

You mean kilobit/s?

! (yeti@kumari:2)~$ dc <<< '50000 8 / p'
! 6250

...wouldn't be sooo far off my guesses...

Yes, either way, I'm only really expecting/aiming for FidoNet speed and ability, I'm *really* not getting my hopes up. LoRa has much better
range though, dependent on line-of-sight compared to things like HC -
12, around 200km on a good day with good quality hardware.

My main concerns are really software, and how we would say, transfer
data over LoRa and, say, display it on the receiving end's terminal,
I've never done anything like this before, so I haven't got a clue how something like this would be accomplished, but I'll find a way ;)
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

"Joe (~rebello) Harley" <rebello@tilde.club> writes:

On 22/03/2021 06:11, yeti wrote:
Yes, either way, I'm only really expecting/aiming for FidoNet speed
and ability, I'm *really* not getting my hopes up. LoRa has much
better range though, dependent on line-of-sight compared to things
like HC -
12, around 200km on a good day with good quality hardware.

200km sure not with old modem's speeds.
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

On 22/03/2021 23:52, yeti wrote:

"Joe (~rebello) Harley" <rebello@tilde.club> writes:

On 22/03/2021 06:11, yeti wrote:
Yes, either way, I'm only really expecting/aiming for FidoNet speed
and ability, I'm *really* not getting my hopes up. LoRa has much
better range though, dependent on line-of-sight compared to things
like HC -
12, around 200km on a good day with good quality hardware.

200km sure not with old modem's speeds.

Well... 200km is the world record.

As to UUCP over LoRa, it works, see: https://github.com/jgoerzen/lorapipe/blob/master/doc/lorapipe.1.md

Right now, I'm at the stage where I have a solid idea of how this will
work, the hardware required, and a couple of technical hurdles and how
to overcome them with keeping overhead generally low.
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

On 23/03/2021 17:41, Joe (~rebello) Harley wrote:

On 22/03/2021 23:52, yeti wrote:

"Joe (~rebello) Harley" <rebello@tilde.club> writes:

On 22/03/2021 06:11, yeti wrote:
Yes, either way, I'm only really expecting/aiming for FidoNet speed
and ability, I'm *really* not getting my hopes up. LoRa has much
better range though, dependent on line-of-sight compared to things
like HC -
12, around 200km on a good day with good quality hardware.

200km sure not with old modem's speeds.

Well... 200km is the world record.

As to UUCP over LoRa, it works, see: https://github.com/jgoerzen/lorapipe/blob/master/doc/lorapipe.1.md

Right now, I'm at the stage where I have a solid idea of how this will
work, the hardware required, and a couple of technical hurdles and how
to overcome them with keeping overhead generally low.

However, I am very much interested in HC-12 as well, but I've heard some warnings about it's standard operating frequency, which isn't a licence
free band in certain territories, therefore transmitting with it would
be illegal.
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

My LoRa modules are 433MHz-ish as my HC-12 modules are too. As far as I
could read, both are legal here. 866MHz would be too, but I expect
433MHz to have the longer reach.

But UUCP via phone line, VPN (TOR?), and SSH has higher priority for me.


But now for something not really completely different:


I got nuts ... mail between kumari and cubietruck1 addressing me with
FQDN works since yesterday(?) but with short hostname only address was
ok from cubietruck1 to kumari, not the other direction. Via `uustat -a`
I noticed the mail on cubietrucl1 being stuck between UUCP and postfix.
After reboot it works.

Linux converges to windows?
It doesn't work?
Reboot!

...maybe some miniscule differences between kumari/Debian-amd64 and cubietruck1/Devuan-armhf. Getting a NetBSD into that mix soon may yield
even more surprises.

Staying ommmMMMmmmMMMmmmptimistic... o:-)
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

On 23/03/2021 18:07, yeti wrote:

My LoRa modules are 433MHz-ish as my HC-12 modules are too. As far as I could read, both are legal here. 866MHz would be too, but I expect
433MHz to have the longer reach.

But UUCP via phone line, VPN (TOR?), and SSH has higher priority for me.

But now for something not really completely different:

I got nuts ... mail between kumari and cubietruck1 addressing me with
FQDN works since yesterday(?) but with short hostname only address was
ok from cubietruck1 to kumari, not the other direction. Via `uustat -a`
I noticed the mail on cubietrucl1 being stuck between UUCP and postfix.
After reboot it works.

Linux converges to windows?
It doesn't work?
Reboot!

...maybe some miniscule differences between kumari/Debian-amd64 and cubietruck1/Devuan-armhf. Getting a NetBSD into that mix soon may yield
even more surprises.

Staying ommmMMMmmmMMMmmmptimistic... o:-)

Thanks.

Yeah I'm trying to push on with UUCP myself, but keep hitting
roadblocks, I really need a slightly more in depth guide for UUCP over
SSH, because that seems like the best fit for me at the mo.

Hmmm... intriguing, keep me posted!
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

"Joe (~rebello) Harley" <rebello@tilde.club> writes:

Yeah I'm trying to push on with UUCP myself, but keep hitting
roadblocks, I really need a slightly more in depth guide for UUCP over
SSH, because that seems like the best fit for me at the mo.

SSH over TCP over LoRa?

Still no idea what I want. Maybe turning the transceivers into modems
and adding some encryption might be an idea.

First I need to understand what I'm doing now. I still have the feeling
it (currently cleartext TCP/540) only accidentally works. Unpleasant!
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

On 23/03/2021 18:50, yeti wrote:

SSH over TCP over LoRa?

Haven't thought of that - My thought was SSH over AX.25 over LoRa.

To be clear, I'm just thinking of doing UUCP over SSH without LoRa, LoRa
is just a side project.

Still no idea what I want. Maybe turning the transceivers into modems
and adding some encryption might be an idea.

I mean, that seems doable, it's probably been done, I'll have to have a
look. I regularly check your UUCP Grassroots page, so you do have an
audience for what goes on XD

First I need to understand what I'm doing now. I still have the feeling
it (currently cleartext TCP/540) only accidentally works. Unpleasant!

Yeah, same here really.
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

| (yeti@kumari:1)~$ nc cubietruck1 540
| login: kumari
| Password: YeahBabyYeah!!!
| Shere=cubietruck1

Redirecting this thru TOR already might be ™good enough™.
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

Just for fun only:

A due to config error multiple times pingponged mail...

| Return-Path: <yeti@kumari.local>
| X-Original-To: yeti@cubietruck1
| Delivered-To: yeti@cubietruck1
| Received: by cubietruck1 (Postfix, from userid 10)
| id 5E68915EE3C; Tue, 23 Mar 2021 17:31:52 +0000 (UTC)
| Received: by kumari (Postfix, from userid 10)
| id CC4582812DB; Tue, 23 Mar 2021 17:25:36 +0000 (UTC)
| Received: by cubietruck1 (Postfix, from userid 10)
| id ABA9515EDA5; Tue, 23 Mar 2021 03:02:27 +0000 (UTC)
| Received: by kumari (Postfix, from userid 10)
| id 39DDB2812C9; Tue, 23 Mar 2021 03:01:14 +0000 (UTC)
| Received: by cubietruck1 (Postfix, from userid 10)
| id E609D15EC2B; Tue, 23 Mar 2021 03:00:43 +0000 (UTC)
| Received: by kumari (Postfix, from userid 1000)
| id 41813280C09; Tue, 23 Mar 2021 03:00:32 +0000 (UTC)
| To: yeti@cubietruck1
| Subject: jkllk
| MIME-Version: 1.0
| Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
| Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
| Message-Id: <20210323030032.41813280C09@kumari>
| Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2021 03:00:32 +0000 (UTC)
| From: yeti <yeti@kumari.local>
|
| Tue 23 Mar 03:00:32 UTC 2021

Hit shappens! ;-D
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> writes:

| (yeti@kumari:1)~$ nc cubietruck1 540
| login: kumari
| Password: YeahBabyYeah!!!
| Shere=cubietruck1

Redirecting this thru TOR already might be ™good enough™.

| $ /bin/nc.openbsd -xlocalhost:9050 -X5 sivpkcxodgv6lb5glbygtmspi5dm5kedfhbbdeyadg7btqtb2v666bad.onion 540
| login: kumari
| Password: YeahBabyYeah!!!
| Shere=cubietruck1

Ok... not yet in my UUCP config but nc.openbsd (not every nc can o that)
can reach UUCP via TCP/540 via TOR on cubietruck1. \o/
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> writes:

| (yeti@kumari:1)~$ nc cubietruck1 540
| login: kumari
| Password: YeahBabyYeah!!!
| Shere=cubietruck1

Redirecting this thru TOR already might be ™good enough™.

| $ /bin/nc.openbsd -xlocalhost:9050 -X5 sivpkcxodgv6lb5glbygtmspi5dm5kedfhbbdeyadg7btqtb2v666bad.onion 540
| login: kumari
| Password: YeahBabyYeah!!!
| Shere=cubietruck1

Ok... not yet in my UUCP config but nc.openbsd (not every nc can do that)
can reach UUCP voa tor on cubietruck1. \o/

(The onion address and the password are fake.)
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

"Joe (~rebello) Harley" <rebello@tilde.club> writes:

On 22/03/2021 07:58, yeti wrote:

Looks I screwed up the followup to the above. I have it as sent in GNUS
but dont find it in the group.
A meanwhile extended version of it is at:
https://tildegit.org/UUCP-Grassroots/incubator/wiki/Home#scratching-my-head-without-seeing-success
And now the bucket of tea!
\o/

Haha! Minor success! \o/

My UUCP Bible has *just* arrived, so I'll to some similar testing like yourself and get back to you ;)

UUCP is one of those things that I've read a bit about but don't have
much understanding of... have to go read the wiki page about it. Would
love to somehow help/participate in these experiments somehow!

-amr
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

On 26/03/2021 05:17, yeti wrote:

yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> writes:

| (yeti@kumari:1)~$ nc cubietruck1 540
| login: kumari
| Password: YeahBabyYeah!!!
| Shere=cubietruck1

Redirecting this thru TOR already might be ™good enough™.

| $ /bin/nc.openbsd -xlocalhost:9050 -X5 sivpkcxodgv6lb5glbygtmspi5dm5kedfhbbdeyadg7btqtb2v666bad.onion 540
| login: kumari
| Password: YeahBabyYeah!!!
| Shere=cubietruck1

Ok... not yet in my UUCP config but nc.openbsd (not every nc can o that)
can reach UUCP via TCP/540 via TOR on cubietruck1. \o/

YES!!! \o/

We're getting ever closer to having something good. If we can get TOR
working I *may* be able to peer with you, but I can't promise anything.

I'm still sticking with the SSH route for the mo.
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

On 27/03/2021 11:16, Alexander wrote:

"Joe (~rebello) Harley" <rebello@tilde.club> writes:

On 22/03/2021 07:58, yeti wrote:

Looks I screwed up the followup to the above. I have it as sent in GNUS >>> but dont find it in the group.
A meanwhile extended version of it is at:
https://tildegit.org/UUCP-Grassroots/incubator/wiki/Home#scratching-my-head-without-seeing-success
And now the bucket of tea!
\o/

Haha! Minor success! \o/

My UUCP Bible has *just* arrived, so I'll to some similar testing like
yourself and get back to you ;)

UUCP is one of those things that I've read a bit about but don't have
much understanding of... have to go read the wiki page about it. Would
love to somehow help/participate in these experiments somehow!

-amr

Yeah, it's hard to get your head around. If I can ever get UUCP over SSH working and can get permission for running something on my network, I'd
be happy to peer maybe if you're really interested.
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

"Joe (~rebello) Harley" <rebello@tilde.club> writes:

If I can ever get UUCP over SSH working and can get permission for
running something on my network, I'd be happy to peer maybe if you're
really interested.

UUCP (over SSH) over TOR might be easier because it typically bypasses the router/firewall easily.

I still haven't tried sending over TORified TCP/540. Santa just does
not deliver the 100 hours day and I even forgot his email address:

https://tildegit.org/UUCP-Grassroots/incubator/wiki/Home#20210327-s-1-%C2%B9%E2%81%B0-meters

***sigh!***
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> writes:

| $ /bin/nc.openbsd -xlocalhost:9050 -X5
| sivpkcxodgv6lb5glbygtmspi5dm5kedfhbbdeyadg7btqtb2v666bad.onion 540
| login: kumari
| Password: YeahBabyYeah!!!
| Shere=cubietruck1

I have one guinea pig `pi1-a` more for playing with UUCP and
`cubietruck1` speaks to it over this port definition:

| port TOR540_pi1-a
| type pipe
| protocol etyig
| # The complete path to the command seems to be really neccesarry:
| command /bin/nc.openbsd -xlocalhost:9050 -X5 anetphabw4n7gheupc7d2gla4m4yuec622f6qadfypd6lgnhip666yqd.onion 540

—▷ https://tildegit.org/UUCP-Grassroots/incubator/wiki/Home#20210328-s-1-%C2%B9%E2%81%B0-meters

It somehow works but I'm at end-of-concentration now and need a break or
maybe more.

🕉!
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

Come on!
This has to be a bad joke!
Where is the hidden camera?

Got TCP/540 over TOR working between that Pi1-B+ and the Cubietruck in
both directions. Expecting an update would take a while after not
having used that Pi1 for maybe even 9 months, I delayed it until after
the UUCP experiments, then I ran the update...

...now it doesn't boot any more, not evan any reaction on an attached
HDMI screen...

I'll look at it somewhen later.

<xxx-loud> Ommm!!! </xxx-loud>
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> writes:

...now it doesn't boot any more, not evan any reaction on an attached
HDMI screen...

I'll look at it somewhen later.

Ok. Pi1-a lives again, has uucp, ostfix and tor on a freslhy installed
RaspiOS and can mail to neighbours over TCP/540 and TCP/540 over TOR
again.

Time for a break.

--
Take Back Control! — Mesh The Planet!
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

On 2021-03-29, yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> wrote:

yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> writes:

...now it doesn't boot any more, not evan any reaction on an attached
HDMI screen...

I'll look at it somewhen later.

Ok. Pi1-a lives again, has uucp, ostfix and tor on a freslhy installed RaspiOS and can mail to neighbours over TCP/540 and TCP/540 over TOR
again.

Time for a break.

I have little to add to this discussion, but I appreciate you all having
it here. LoLa looks really cool, and I love UUCP.
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

James Tomasino <tomasino@cosmic.voyage> writes:

On 2021-03-29, yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> wrote:
I have little to add to this discussion, but I appreciate you all having
it here. LoLa looks really cool, and I love UUCP.

I really think we should have a mailbox like in real life, which some
providers might "feed", but not only one, and especially every
individual too driving by and dropping stuff into it.

We endusers in the nets typically don't have that amount of control over
our digital mailbox any more. THAT HAS TO CHANGE!

And we should look for other transports too. WiFi, LoRa and such may
help to connect neighbours. Phones still exist, so why don't use them
too?

--
Take Back Control! — Mesh The Planet!
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

"Joe (~rebello) Harley" <rebello@tilde.club> writes:

Yeah, it's hard to get your head around. If I can ever get UUCP over
SSH working and can get permission for running something on my
network, I'd be happy to peer maybe if you're really interested.

Can you run VMs with at least NAT-ed internet access?

That may not easily help with UUCP/SSH but UUCP/TOR/TCP540 and
UUCP/TOR/SSH should work if your firewall/router isn't too mean.

--
Take Back Control! — Mesh The Planet!
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

On 2021-03-27, Alexander <amrowsell@frozenelectronics.ca> wrote:

Haha! Minor success! \o/

My UUCP Bible has *just* arrived, so I'll to some similar testing like
yourself and get back to you ;)

What is the Bible? O'Reilly's Managing UUCP and Usenet (or one of its various permutations)?

There's also some stuff in the Linux Network Administrator's Guide. Taylor UUCP
also has some pretty decent info docs, though somewhat lacking in the big picture of how it all fits together.

UUCP is one of those things that I've read a bit about but don't have
much understanding of... have to go read the wiki page about it. Would
love to somehow help/participate in these experiments somehow!

Feel free to ask me for help at any point.

While we're on the topic of UUCP over LoRA:

https://github.com/jgoerzen/lorapipe/blob/master/doc/lorapipe.1.md#uucp

Though I have found that XBee SX radios sacrifice only a little range (say, 10%)
for higher speeds (50-100Kbps), and they have hardware auto-meshing and flow control, both if which are super nice. Also encryption.

I have also done UUCP over them:

https://github.com/jgoerzen/xbnet/blob/master/doc/xbnet.1.md#uucp

There is also a modern UUCP derivative, NNCP, that is somewhat easier to wrap one's head around, and includes built-in end-to-end encryption, which is nice.

https://nncp.mirrors.quux.org/

- John
--- Synchronet 3.19a-Linux NewsLink 1.113

On 2021-03-23, Joe (~rebello) Harley <rebello@tilde.club> wrote:

On 23/03/2021 18:50, yeti wrote:

SSH over TCP over LoRa?

Haven't thought of that - My thought was SSH over AX.25 over LoRa.

I never implemented tun/tap over LoRA, though I did over XBee. The XBee frame has a src/destination address that strongly resembles an Ethernet MAC, and can be exploited in much the same way.

I did run both PPP and AX.25 over LoRA. PPP with link compression disabled but VJ compression enabled can work somewhat decently. As I wrote: "in my testing, PPP was the fastest method of running SSH over LoRa, beating out even AX.25. But
then, that makes some sense, since AX.25 has to add addressing bits to every frame since it is a more LAN-like protocol".

Don't expect a fantastic ssh experience though :-)

The advantage of AX.25 is that it supports many-to-many communication, rather than one-to-one. The disadvantage is that it has a lot more overhead, and it really matters at LoRA speeds.

- John

https://github.com/jgoerzen/lorapipe/blob/master/doc/lorapipe.1.md
--- Synchronet 3.19a-Linux NewsLink 1.113

On 2021-03-21, Joe (~rebello) Harley <rebello@tilde.club> wrote:

Been looking into LoRa recently, not really for it's intended purpose,
which is IoT, but for SMS, IRC and a bunch of other internet-like activities.

I like the way you think!

Here are some links I have ammassed but haven't tried yet:

LoRA Mesh Radio: https://www.instructables.com/LoRa-Mesh-Radio/
Another page about it: https://www.hackster.io/scottpowell69/lora-mesh-chat-5267d9
Uses ripple firmware: https://github.com/spleenware/ripple

Hackaday LoRA mesh: https://hackaday.com/2020/07/30/join-your-own-private-lora-mesh-network/
Also uses Ripple
Project page: https://hackaday.io/project/174019-lora-qwerty-messenger

Article about LoRA GPS Tracker/Pager: https://www.pcbway.com/project/sponsor/LoRa_GPS_Tracker_Pager.html

Armachat LoRA communicator: https://makezine.com/projects/armachat-lora-communicator

LoRA GPS Tracker: https://www.instructables.com/id/LoRa-GPS-Tracker

LoRA Mesh Sensors: https://www.instructables.com/LoRa-Mesh-Sensors/

LoRA GPS Tracker/Pager: https://www.instructables.com/LoRa-GPS-TrackerPager/

Meshtastic Project - more open than some of the others
https://meshtastic.org/
https://meshtastic.letstalkthis.com

Disaster-resilient solar-powered communications https://disaster.radio

Lorapipe https://briarproject.org/

Non-LoRA:

Briar Project, Bluetooth-based ad-hoc IM, can also use Tor
https://briarproject.org/

XBNet https://briarproject.org/

- John
--- Synchronet 3.19a-Linux NewsLink 1.113

On 2021-03-21, Joe (~rebello) Harley <rebello@tilde.club> wrote:

On 21/03/2021 16:29, yeti wrote:

! ( Owlways watchin' ya! )
! _ /
! \o.o
! |_|)
! ---^-^---------------------------

I've some doubt about speed and range but decided to stay ommmPtimistic.

Maybe some speed and range infos can be found there?

https://hackaday.com/blog/?s=lora+mesh

My LoRa and HC-12 modules still are waiting to get tested ...

https://www.ebyte.com/en/product-view-news.aspx?id=660
https://statics3.seeedstudio.com/assets/file/bazaar/product/HC-12_english_datasheets.pdf

... and my UUCP experiments currently only are inching forward at speed
in the ångström per liter coffee steps... :-/

Oh yes, there will be speed and range issues for sure, but...

- I may have found a way around range issues, although it would require
at least a dozen nodes in geographical cluster.

- Patience, we must remember that this will not be up to snuff with the speed we are used to nowadays, I think the bitrate is around 50kb/s, so we're looking at late 80s/early 90s speed, if that, which I can live with.

I'll have to check that link out! Thanks ;)

I must admit, I thought about UUCP over LoRa, it would be mighty fine
and handy for me, but I'm really getting ahead of myself at the place
I'm at now with the idea.

On an unrelated note, I have also purchased a copy of the UUCP bible,
and I'm crossing my fingers to see if it makes it across the Atlantic safely!

50kbit/s is enough for text mode. Lynx flew in 56k conns, so does gopher.
.

--- Synchronet 3.19a-Linux NewsLink 1.113

anthk <anthk@texto-plano.xyz> writes:

50kbit/s is enough for text mode. Lynx flew in 56k conns, so does gopher.

And over which distance can you get 50kbits/s with legal and license
free transmitters?
--
Take Back Control! — Mesh The Planet! yeti@anetphabw4n7gheupc7d2gla4m4yuec622f6qadfypd6lgnhipodbyqd.onion
finger yeti@tilde.institute
--- Synchronet 3.19a-Linux NewsLink 1.113

yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> wrote:

anthk <anthk@texto-plano.xyz> writes:

50kbit/s is enough for text mode. Lynx flew in 56k conns, so does gopher.

And over which distance can you get 50kbits/s with legal and license
free transmitters?

The nanometer bands (light)? With something like this: http://www.bluehaze.com.au/modlight/OpticalComms4Amateur79/RadioLove.gif
(LEDs are probably better suited than the laser these days)

Of course that's for a broadcast based approach, though you could
have users pointing their own directional transmitters back at
different spots on the transmitter tower (or nearby) and set up
a star network of such towers (transmitting the entire network
content continuously at high data rates).

Or see lots of details about other approaches here: http://www.bluehaze.com.au/modlight/index.html

If you're really interested, here's a video documenting a more
recent long-distance test by the same people: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sil33vRms64

That's all based around analogue communications, though RONJA
is a separate project for directional digital comms: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RONJA
gopher://gopherpedia.com/0/RONJA

This is actually the latest evolution of my vague "Broadcasting
User Networks" idea, which I wrote about here before I started
playing with optical comms: gopher://aussies.space/0/%7efreet/ideas/2021-06-12Broadcasting_User_Networks.txt
--

- The Free Thinker | gopher://aussies.space/1/%7efreet/
--- Synchronet 3.19a-Linux NewsLink 1.113

We nedd to start with what's available.

Typical landline phones are flatrate here and idle >99% of the day.

Let's dig out our trusty old modems again.

Locally we can redistribute what we have via WiFi and exploring a
special WiFi mode that claims to manage more distance (ESP32
LongRangeModus) than the usual one is on my (™dark energy inside™) to do list. But except my own systems I have no interested neighbours to connect.

Protocols like UUCP in nodes riding with commuters' cars, on bus lines,
trains, ... can be used to keep the low bandwidth connection free of
some large file transfers. Could be a nice cooperation of
technologies.

But when we start meshing using whatever we can get our hands on, VPNs, tunnels, TOR, I2P, ... will be the 1st technologies do get distant
members connected.

I'll ommmmmmmm a bit or even a long how to find others with modems...
maybe we should start a list somewhere who is where, has flatrate and
modem, ...
--
Take Back Control! — Mesh The Planet! yeti@anetphabw4n7gheupc7d2gla4m4yuec622f6qadfypd6lgnhipodbyqd.onion
finger yeti@tilde.institute
--- Synchronet 3.19a-Linux NewsLink 1.113

yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> wrote:

We nedd to start with what's available.

Typical landline phones are flatrate here and idle >99% of the day.

Let's dig out our trusty old modems again.

I'm a little lost with the idea of using phone lines, that's
relying on infrastructure equivalent to a home internet
connection (if not almost the same if you're on ADSL). Still
I see you've got your own dream. I guess you're interested in a
conceptual hobby network, whereas I get more of a kick out of
getting away from reliance on commercial services and their
corresponding control over access and usage.

[snip]
I'll ommmmmmmm a bit or even a long how to find others with modems...
maybe we should start a list somewhere who is where, has flatrate and
modem, ...

And in the same country. I imagine calls to Australia aren't at
flat rates for you, though I'm not on a flat rate here anyway
(sounds like that's much more common where you live).
--

- The Free Thinker | gopher://aussies.space/1/%7efreet/
--- Synchronet 3.19a-Linux NewsLink 1.113

On 2021-03-27, Joe (~rebello) Harley <rebello@tilde.club> wrote:

YES!!! \o/

We're getting ever closer to having something good. If we can get TOR working I *may* be able to peer with you, but I can't promise anything.

I'm still sticking with the SSH route for the mo.

I know this is literally a year late, but... since it was posted, I stumbled onto https://yggdrasil-network.github.io/ which would be PERFECT for this sort of thing.

I have packaged it up for Debian and it is available for installation on Raspberry Pi OS following these instructions: https://www.complete.org/installing-debian-backports-on-raspberry-pi/

- John
--- Synchronet 3.19a-Linux NewsLink 1.113