Nick Andre wrote to Sean Dennis <=-

Matrox was always "iffy", even on Windows if I remember correctly.

They were/are iffy on everything.

Used to have boxes and boxes of cards, ended up tossing a lot of it to
the curb when I moved to this apartment.

Yeah, same here though mine was not really my choice, sadly.

-- Sean

... A black cat crossing your path signifies the animal is going somewhere.
___ MultiMail/Win v0.52

--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: Outpost BBS // bbs.outpostbbs.net:10123 (618:618/10)

thecivvie wrote to Sean Dennis <=-

Ubuntu Server was bugging me to upgrade from 18 to 20 lts . So I
finally logged into a console and started the process. Took me far
too long. Think it was 3 am when I finally finished

One of those upgrades, eh? I've done that. Once I can get a suitably
powerful enough computer for me, I will go back to running Devuan Linux
again for my own use.

-- Sean

... Insomnia isn't anything to lose sleep over.
___ MultiMail/Win v0.52

--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: Outpost BBS // bbs.outpostbbs.net:10123 (618:618/10)

Sean Dennis wrote to thecivvie <=-

thecivvie wrote to Sean Dennis <=-

Ubuntu Server was bugging me to upgrade from 18 to 20 lts . So I
finally logged into a console and started the process. Took me far
too long. Think it was 3 am when I finally finished

One of those upgrades, eh? I've done that. Once I can get a suitably powerful enough computer for me, I will go back to running Devuan Linux again for my own use.

I did it one a Del FX160 :) Surprisingly slow. But it will remain on that now and I will grab another for more projects.

TC


... irc - irc.libera.chat:6667 #bbs

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-5
* Origin: TCOB1 at tcob1.duckdns.org BinkP / Telnet (618:500/14)

Daryl Stout wrote to Mark Hofmann <=-

I talked to a friend earlier today, and she said that Windows 11 is
so screwed up, that she thinks folks will end up going to Linux
instead.

I believe it. Once I can get another (and more reliable) NIC for the
desktop I am running Windows on, I will immediately go back to Devuan Linux. The only reason I would buy another Windows computer is for streaming and
games (and occasionally both together).

-- Sean

... When I was a boy the Dead Sea was only sick. - George Burns
___ MultiMail/Linux v0.52

--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: Outpost BBS // bbs.outpostbbs.net:10123 (618:618/10)

Arelor wrote to Daryl Stout <=-

It is only when they see something other than Windows
running anywhere that it enters their radar
and they have a chance to decide to switch.

Another reason is that these days, people are lazy and want everything done
for them which makes switching to Linux more difficult. Microsoft seems to
be more interested in fluff and pretty pictures rather than building a
solid, reliable OS.

Then again, Windows is no longer Microsoft's breadwinner so it's been
delegated to a dusty corner with R&D.

-- Sean

... There's no future in time travel.
___ MultiMail/Linux v0.52

--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: Outpost BBS // bbs.outpostbbs.net:10123 (618:618/10)

Re: Re: Never do a system fu
By: Sean Dennis to Arelor on Sat Jul 10 2021 01:56 pm

Arelor wrote to Daryl Stout <=-

It is only when they see something other than Windows
running anywhere that it enters their radar
and they have a chance to decide to switch.

Another reason is that these days, people are lazy and want everything done for them which makes switching to Linux more difficult. Microsoft seems to be more interested in fluff and pretty pictures rather than building a solid, reliable OS.

Then again, Windows is no longer Microsoft's breadwinner so it's been delegated to a dusty corner with R&D.

-- Sean

... There's no future in time travel.
___ MultiMail/Linux v0.52

I agree with your appreciation regarding laziness and short attention spans.

That said, nowadays there are laptop manufacturers distributing Linux machines with full software
support. They are usually quite niche, though. I bet most Linuxers and BSDers would rather install
their operating system of choice in an old Wintel computer than paying premium for the privilege of
using a pre-installed, supported version of the same system in a new machine.

The ones that come with support for specialized distributions, such as Qubes, sound attractive for
their niche markets, though.


--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (618:250/24)

Hello Arelor,

Saturday July 10 2021 17:39, you wrote to me:

The ones that come with support for specialized distributions, such as Qubes, sound attractive for their niche markets, though.

With Linux, I can slap it on nearly anything and it will work. It was a surprise to me that ArcaOS installed nicely and runs well on my HPE ProLiant server (save for the oddball Matrox onboard graphics that is poorly supported under any OS). Most of the time I prefer IBM/Lenovo machines since they tend to support OS/2 easier.

This computer I'm on has a Broadcom NIC which is poorly supported under Linux so I am waiting until I can get a decent half-height 100/1000 NIC and Windows will permanently disappear except in a VM which I keep around for development purposes.

-- Sean

... Censorship is a disease that will spread if not treated quickly.
--- GoldED/2 3.0.1
* Origin: Outpost BBS // bbs.outpostbbs.net:10123 (618:618/10)

Nick Andre wrote to Lux <=-

I had the same problem with OS/2 in the end before I switched to
Windows 2000, it was problems with drivers, drivers, drivers.

Big difference: OS/2 is very picky about drivers. Windows is just a
poorly implemented OS. I've been using both since 1995 and I can
honestly say that ArcaOS is much better behaved than Windows though I
prefer Linux for smooth operation.

The real moneymaker for them is Office 365 and Server/Enterprise
products which have mostly been good. They pretty much wrote off the
phone business.

Microsoft has just grown lazy and complacent thinking they have no
competition.

-- Sean

... "Thanks for calling and not reversing the charges."
___ MultiMail/Win v0.52

--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: Outpost BBS // bbs.outpostbbs.net:10123 (618:618/10)

Big difference: OS/2 is very picky about drivers. Windows is just a
poorly implemented OS. I've been using both since 1995 and I can
honestly say that ArcaOS is much better behaved than Windows though I prefer Linux for smooth operation.

When I used to run OS/2 on a physical PC long ago, drivers were 100% my biggest issue. You just couldn't find drivers for hardly anything.

It is so much easier now to run it virtually. The best part about it is no more driver worries or hardware compatability issues. I can run it on anything.

Who would have thought that I would be running OS/2 (eCS) on a Supermicro 4U monster server (as a VM of course).

- Mark

--- WWIVToss v.1.52
* Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (618:100/12.0)

Mark Hofmann wrote to Nick Andre <=-

Very little actual "real upgrades" that provide additional
functionality or capabilities. They just need to keep
releasing things to keep money flowing in.

You hit the nail on the head.

-- Sean

... Never underestimate the power of human stupidity.
___ MultiMail/Win v0.52

--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: Outpost BBS // bbs.outpostbbs.net:10123 (618:618/10)

Mark Hofmann wrote to Arelor <=-

Windows apps are on the decline. Linux apps are on the incline, but in reality most apps are just web services these days. The
average user doesn't need apps on their PC. Just a browser
is enough. They just want to watch YouTube, check their
email, play some online games, etc. The phone app market
has seen the most gains of any platform.

Then when the Internet goes down, no one can do anything anymore. I
guess I'm an odd one out because I don't need to be online all the time
(well, except for the BBS, but I hope to have a POTS line eventually).
I still distrust the Internet in a lot of ways and, being the age that
I am, I always well. Newer isn't always better, IMNSHO.

-- Sean

... My other computer ... hey, where IS my other computer?
___ MultiMail/Win v0.52

--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: Outpost BBS // bbs.outpostbbs.net:10123 (618:618/10)

Mark Hofmann wrote to Sean Dennis <=-

It is so much easier now to run it virtually. The best part about it
is no more driver worries or hardware compatability issues. I
can run it on anything.

That's the case with ArcaOS on real hardware these days. The HPE
server I have has an oddball Matrox G200 video chip onboard which has
poor support in Windows, OS/2 and Linux but that's a rare exception. I
do have ArcaOS running nicely in a VM also.

Who would have thought that I would be running OS/2 (eCS)
on a Supermicro 4U monster server (as a VM of course).

I was able to shoehorn ArcaOS running on my Dell PowerEdge R710
natively. Now that was a beast.

-- Sean

... Those who trade liberty for security have neither.
___ MultiMail/Win v0.52

--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: Outpost BBS // bbs.outpostbbs.net:10123 (618:618/10)

Mark Hofmann wrote to Nick Andre <=-

I will say I am surprised just how much market share they ended up with
in the cloud. I really thought Amazon and Google would
dominate and MS would get some left overs. What kept them
in play was Exchange and Active Directory and it moving to
the cloud. That started their cloud migration and is the
main glue that keeps them together in the cloud space.

The only reason Windows survived is because it has a majority stake in
the OS marketplace and people these days are too ignorant and lazy to
learn anything new.

-- Sean

... OS/2 vs. Windows is a no-Win situation.
___ MultiMail/Win v0.52

--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: Outpost BBS // bbs.outpostbbs.net:10123 (618:618/10)

You hit the nail on the head.

:) Maybe Microsoft will change the default wallpaper. That could be Windows 12.

- Mark

--- WWIVToss v.1.52
* Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (618:100/12.0)

Then when the Internet goes down, no one can do anything anymore. I
guess I'm an odd one out because I don't need to be online all the time (well, except for the BBS, but I hope to have a POTS line eventually).
I still distrust the Internet in a lot of ways and, being the age that
I am, I always well. Newer isn't always better, IMNSHO.

I feel the same way, but the average user these days just browses the Internet and reads email. They don't install any apps (most don't even know how) on their Windows systems.

I am big on home automation and have done some work with Home Assistant. I have a fairly extensive setup and one thing that was very important to me on the project. That everything would work 100% with no Internet or cloud at all. Everything I have done is all local. The only thing that would stop working is my cell phone access to my home and I wouldn't be able to open my garage doors until I was in WiFi range.

- Mark

--- WWIVToss v.1.52
* Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (618:100/12.0)

That's the case with ArcaOS on real hardware these days. The HPE
server I have has an oddball Matrox G200 video chip onboard which has
poor support in Windows, OS/2 and Linux but that's a rare exception. I
do have ArcaOS running nicely in a VM also.

I tested ArcaOS as a VM here too. I ended up going back to eCS because I couldn't get ArcaOS to stop locking up at random. The same thing was happening to me when I ran eCS with the JFS file system. I moved to HPFS and no more lockups.

- Mark

--- WWIVToss v.1.52
* Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (618:100/12.0)

The only reason Windows survived is because it has a majority stake in
the OS marketplace and people these days are too ignorant and lazy to
learn anything new.

They had application dominance. OS/2 just didn't get near the amount of applications on the market. The GUI wasn't as clean either, so the mass population stayed with Windows even though it wasn't as good at multi-tasking and stability.

- Mark

--- WWIVToss v.1.52
* Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (618:100/12.0)

Hello, Mark!

Replying to a message of Mark Hofmann to Sean Dennis:

I tested ArcaOS as a VM here too. I ended up going back to eCS
because I couldn't get ArcaOS to stop locking up at random. The same thing was happening to me when I ran eCS with the JFS file system. I moved to HPFS and no more lockups.

What version of Arca were you using? I have 5.0.6 here and it works quite well. It even supports USB3 supposedly but I haven't tried that yet. I've been using JFS without issue as well and now I can use Clonezilla to make images of the BBS.

Later,
Sean

--- FleetStreet 1.27.1
* Origin: Outpost BBS Local Console * bbs.outpostbbs.net:10123 (618:618/10)

What version of Arca were you using? I have 5.0.6 here and it works quite well. It even supports USB3 supposedly but I haven't tried that yet. I've been using JFS without issue as well and now I can use Clonezilla to make images of the BBS.

Not exactly sure or how to tell, but it is at least 5.0. Doing a ver at the OS/2 prompt shows 4.5, which makes no sense.

It seems to have something to do with my unique setup where I run applications from mapped drives. Those are the only things that lockup at random. I run my BBS nodes from a mapped drive. I don't have that issue with eCS, so it is probably something in Samba or Netdrive.

- Mark

--- WWIVToss v.1.52
* Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (618:100/12.0)

Re: Re: Never do a system fu
By: Sean Dennis to Mark Hofmann on Sat Jul 17 2021 02:23 pm

Mark Hofmann wrote to Arelor <=-

Windows apps are on the decline. Linux apps are on the incline, but in reality most apps are just web services these days. The
average user doesn't need apps on their PC. Just a browser
is enough. They just want to watch YouTube, check their
email, play some online games, etc. The phone app market
has seen the most gains of any platform.

Then when the Internet goes down, no one can do anything anymore. I
guess I'm an odd one out because I don't need to be online all the time (well, except for the BBS, but I hope to have a POTS line eventually).
I still distrust the Internet in a lot of ways and, being the age that
I am, I always well. Newer isn't always better, IMNSHO.

-- Sean

... My other computer ... hey, where IS my other computer?
___ MultiMail/Win v0.52

You and I are like brothers.

I grew up in a rural area which got access to the Internet very late, so in fact every kid in the city grew up with full Internet connectivity while I was still in the stoneage. This means I am acustomed to not having 24/7 connectivity. I like to operate my systems with the expectation that INternet may not be available, which means I have local copies to work offline if something goes wrong.

Lots of people out there don't care to have local copies of the music and movies they like anymore. They say their backup is The Pirate Bay or Netflix. Such shortsightedness.

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (618:250/24)

Warpslide wrote to Mark Hofmann <=-

Then I get the call to come over & help put Windows on it...

D:

-- Sean


... This tagline requires Microsoft Windows.
___ MultiMail/Win v0.52

--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: Outpost BBS // bbs.outpostbbs.net:10123 (618:618/10)

Arelor wrote to Daryl Stout <=-

Microsoft is making big investments in stuff that is not IT related,
like railway firms and the like. I think this means they don't have
ideas to fund with their own money so it is more profitable for them to fund somebody else's ideas instead.

Railways? That's still a risky proposition (I am a railroad fan).
Trucking is still beating out railways for business. Still, I wonder if Microsoft isn't trying to become another Amazon (starting in one
business and branching out into many others).

In the early days I would have said it was a case of Microsofty trying
to destroy competition, because they actually were that way. Not that
they aren't a bit like that today - you are not convincing me that
Secure Boot was not an experiment to see if they could lock others out
of Wintel hardware - but it is less of an issue now.

Oh yes, Secure Boot was trying to lock out all other operating systems.
It's more of a hassle than anything else even with Windows. This
putting Windows keys into a BIOS is kinda silly IMNSHO.

-- Sean


... Losing weight: the triumph of mind over platter.
___ MultiMail/Win v0.52

--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: Outpost BBS // bbs.outpostbbs.net:10123 (618:618/10)

For home customers, it is just not going to work. Individuals are used
to having every digital service for free. As my former favourite book store owner - no longer favourite because Abolins took his place - used
to say, "people has
gotten used not to pay [and this is why I cannot sell Manga anymore]"

I think home computing has always been that way. I have paid exactly
once for a Windows upgrade and that was a mistake. I have very rarely
paid for software unless it was something I not only liked but needed
pretty badly. There's always been free options for commercial software;
you just have to know what your limitations are.

-- Sean


... One family builds a wall, two families enjoy it.
___ MultiMail/Win v0.52

--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: Outpost BBS // bbs.outpostbbs.net:10123 (618:618/10)

Not exactly sure or how to tell, but it is at least 5.0.
Doing a ver at the OS/2 prompt shows 4.5, which makes no
sense.

I think you can tell when the system reboots. I know there's another
way to check but that escapes me right now.

It seems to have something to do with my unique setup where I run applications from mapped drives. Those are the only things
that lockup at random. I run my BBS nodes from a mapped
drive. I don't have that issue with eCS, so it is probably
something in Samba or Netdrive.

I mostly move things via FTP because I don't trust Samba. When I get
this machine switched back to Devuan Linux and the BBS running on the
server, I am going to try to set up NFS again.

-- Sean


... Advertisement: The most truthful part of a newspaper.
___ MultiMail/Win v0.52

--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: Outpost BBS // bbs.outpostbbs.net:10123 (618:618/10)

Arelor wrote to Sean Dennis <=-

Lots of people out there don't care to have local copies of the music
and movies they like anymore. They say their backup is The Pirate Bay
or Netflix. Such shortsightedness.

All of the music I have now is ripped from my personal CD collection as
I prefer to use FLAC over MP3 as, to me, FLAC has overly superior sound quality. I do need to get a large external USB HD/SSD soon so I can
back up all of my movies too.

-- Sean


... Wisdom consists in knowing what to do with what you know.
___ MultiMail/Win v0.52

--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: Outpost BBS // bbs.outpostbbs.net:10123 (618:618/10)

Re: Re: Never do a system fu
By: Sean Dennis to Arelor on Sun Jul 18 2021 03:06 pm

Arelor wrote to Sean Dennis <=-

Lots of people out there don't care to have local copies of the music and movies they like anymore. They say their backup is The Pirate Bay or Netflix. Such shortsightedness.

All of the music I have now is ripped from my personal CD collection as
I prefer to use FLAC over MP3 as, to me, FLAC has overly superior sound quality. I do need to get a large external USB HD/SSD soon so I can
back up all of my movies too.

-- Sean

... Wisdom consists in knowing what to do with what you know.
___ MultiMail/Win v0.52

I also keep a lot of backups of my albums in FLAC. The so-so albums I backup as high quality ogg. I am lucky in that I have access to nice sound systems. Most kids nowadays use crappy equipment and you would not tell the difference between a full featured FLAC and a crappy mp3 sampled at 8 khz on it. It all sounds like garbage :-)

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (618:250/24)