• The weird scam call

    From Arelor@618:250/24 to All on Wed Jul 17 04:22:10 2024
    Hi there. This monday they notified me of a suspicious call one of the secretaries got at the clinic.

    Long story short: some guy with Mexican accent phoned in in order to tell the secretary to tell one of the Doctors that he had sent him some documentation to him via parcel delivery with certain tracking number. He also told us it was related to a patient with a certain insurance policy with a certain insurance company. So far, so good (we deal with lots of foreigner patients and we often get documents shipped from somewhere else).

    Then, the guy said: "By the way, it seems Dr. Ubaldo cancelled an appointment we had with him. Can you phone him to check?"

    Mind you, "Dr. Ubaldo" is an external agent the clinic works with sometimes, but it is not part of the staff. So the secretary told him "We don't have his number."

    Then Mr. Mexican gave her a phone number with a Mexican international prefix. At that point the secretary was a bit suspicious. She noted it down and told Mr. Mexican she would check later (she later said her idea was asking the boss if he knew what the fuck all that was about before phoning anywhere).

    Mr. Mexican said "It'd be better if you called now."

    "I can't call from this call center" (lie)

    "Don't you have a mobile phone or something?"

    "Yes, but I am not going to use my personal cell phone for an international job call."

    And then Mr. Mexican hung up.

    So research afterwards reveals the patient and the insurance policy does not exist and the whole thing seems to have just been a trick to lure the secretary into phoning that particular phone number.

    Does anybody have the slightiest idea of what the goal was? My theory is that it was a recognizansse job to harvest data for future attacks.



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  • From Mike Powell@618:250/1 to ARELOR on Wed Jul 17 10:49:00 2024
    Does anybody have the slightiest idea of what the goal was? My theory is that it was a recognizansse job to harvest data for future attacks.

    Could be. There used to be some funny scam here in the states where they'd
    get you to call a number and then somehow make money from you simply calling that number. I never understood how that worked, since they wouldn't have
    your account info, unless they were making the money via your phone bill,
    with the phone company being the middle man in the transaction.

    I just recently had someone falsely attempt to obtain a credit card in my
    name. The card company contacted me to make sure I applied for it. I said
    I had not so they cancelled it. The odd thing is that the bad card came here instead of going to the fraudster.

    I pulled a copy of a credit report and can see that the application
    apparently had my home address on it. The difference is the phone number
    is not mine and is from outside of my area. I suspect they are trying to
    get that phone number linked to my public record so that, in future, they
    can use it to gain access to other information.

    Mike


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  • From Jas Hud@618:250/1 to Arelor on Wed Jul 17 17:23:55 2024
    To: Arelor
    Re: The weird scam call
    By: Arelor to All on Wed Jul 17 2024 04:22 am

    So research afterwards reveals the patient and the insurance policy does not exist and the whole thing seems to have just been a trick to lure the secretary into phoning that particular phone number.

    Does anybody have the slightiest idea of what the goal was? My theory is that it was a recognizansse job to harvest data for future attacks.


    it could have been part of a bigger scam to make it seem more credible to another person. or once she did that one step, then later on he would have her do another.

    you have no way of knowing.
    that's good that your office did not send out any information or do what
    was asked.
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  • From Jas Hud@618:250/1 to Mike Powell on Wed Jul 17 17:25:00 2024
    To: Mike Powell
    Re: The weird scam call
    By: Mike Powell to ARELOR on Wed Jul 17 2024 10:49 am

    From Newsgroup: micronet.chat.general

    Does anybody have the slightiest idea of what the goal was? My theory is that it was a recognizansse job to harvest data for future attacks.

    Could be. There used to be some funny scam here in the states where they'd get you to call a number and then somehow make money from you simply calling that number. I never understood how that worked, since they wouldn't have your account info, unless they were making the money via your phone bill, with the phone company being the middle man in the transaction.

    I just recently had someone falsely attempt to obtain a credit card in my name. The card company contacted me to make sure I applied for it. I said I had not so they cancelled it. The odd thing is that the bad card came here instead of going to the fraudster.

    I pulled a copy of a credit report and can see that the application apparently had my home address on it. The difference is the phone number
    is not mine and is from outside of my area. I suspect they are trying to get that phone number linked to my public record so that, in future, they can use it to gain access to other information.


    also with AI, people can get voice recordings to work with and then use them to exploit people later one.
    who knows what could happened.
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  • From August Abolins@618:250/1.9 to Arelor on Wed Jul 17 21:35:00 2024
    Hello Arelor!

    ** On Wednesday 17.07.24 - 04:22, Arelor wrote to All:

    So research afterwards reveals the patient and the
    insurance policy does not exist and the whole thing seems
    to have just been a trick to lure the secretary into
    phoning that particular phone number.

    Does anybody have the slightiest idea of what the goal was?
    My theory is that it was a recognizansse job to harvest
    data for future attacks.

    You said it. It was designed to lure you to call the number
    the scammer wants you to call. From there, they might have
    tried to convince the gullible to send money or get user
    credentials or something.




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  • From August Abolins@618:250/1.9 to Mike Powell on Wed Jul 17 21:47:00 2024
    Hello Mike Powell!

    ** On Wednesday 17.07.24 - 10:49, Mike Powell wrote to ARELOR:

    Does anybody have the slightiest idea of what the goal was?
    My theory is that it was a recognizansse job to harvest
    data for future attacks.

    Could be. There used to be some funny scam here in the
    states where they'd get you to call a number and then
    somehow make money from you simply calling that number. I
    never understood how that worked, since they wouldn't have
    your account info, unless they were making the money via
    your phone bill, with the phone company being the middle
    man in the transaction.

    It was quite a common trick in Canada too. There were the 900-
    numbers too. Some people may have not realized that calling a
    900-number would incur charges with the maximum of it going to
    the owner of the 900-number.


    I just recently had someone falsely attempt to obtain a
    credit card in my name. The card company contacted me to
    make sure I applied for it. I said I had not so they
    cancelled it. The odd thing is that the bad card came
    here instead of going to the fraudster.

    Yeah.. I don't understand how the fraudster thinks they can
    pull that one off unless they intercept your mail to get the
    card that the credit card company sends you?


    I pulled a copy of a credit report and can see that the
    application apparently had my home address on it. The
    difference is the phone number is not mine and is from
    outside of my area. I suspect they are trying to get that
    phone number linked to my public record so that, in
    future, they can use it to gain access to other
    information.

    Maybe they think they can convince the credit card company that
    they never received your card and offer a different address
    claiming that you have moved?

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  • From Mike Powell@618:250/1 to AUGUST ABOLINS on Thu Jul 18 08:36:00 2024
    I pulled a copy of a credit report and can see that the
    application apparently had my home address on it. The
    difference is the phone number is not mine and is from
    outside of my area. I suspect they are trying to get that
    phone number linked to my public record so that, in
    future, they can use it to gain access to other
    information.

    Maybe they think they can convince the credit card company that
    they never received your card and offer a different address
    claiming that you have moved?

    I don't think it is just the card, though. They may not even care about
    the card. Lots of fraud rings are into the long game now. So they have someone's personal info. They will do something like apply for a credit
    card but change one bit of info... in this case, the phone number. Once
    that phone number gets proliferated into the public record as attached to
    that stolen identity, they now have control of one of the keys that places
    ask for to allow account access.

    Every call I made yesterday while tracking this down, they would ask me to verify a phone number (which, having worked in the industry, I know they
    are likely bouncing off a list compiled by a data warehouse like Lexis
    Nexis). If I give them a phone number that is linked to me, they then
    texted me my access code to continue the call or web interaction.

    Some of the calls I made were to have that phone number removed from my
    credit report as it had alreday proliferated there.

    Once that phone number proliferates, a fraudster can use that number to
    receive access codes and then change all sorts of information to take over
    the identity. Because the phone number doesn't belong to the real person,
    they won't likely know what is going on until it is too late.

    Until this time last year, I worked with an anti-fraud team. Your amateur
    and part-time fraudsters are still about getting a credit card and spending
    as much money as quickly as they can before they are detected. Big time
    fraud rings have moved onto the long game as assuming identities is where the money really is.

    Mike

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  • From Mike Powell@618:250/1 to JAS HUD on Thu Jul 18 09:53:00 2024
    also with AI, people can get voice recordings to work with and then use them to
    exploit people later one.
    who knows what could happened.

    Scammers and fraudsters are definately going high tech.

    Mike

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  • From Digimaus@618:618/1 to Mike Powell on Thu Jul 18 21:37:35 2024
    Mike Powell wrote to ARELOR <=-

    Could be. There used to be some funny scam here in the states where they'd get you to call a number and then somehow make money from you simply calling that number. I never understood how that worked, since they wouldn't have your account info, unless they were making the money via your phone bill, with the phone company being the middle man in the transaction.

    Some international numbers will do a reverse charge scam and charge you $40 for a 10-second call. Old-fashioned now in the US but internationally it might still work.

    -- Sean

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  • From Arelor@618:250/24 to Mike Powell on Sun Jul 21 16:28:13 2024
    Re: The weird scam call
    By: Mike Powell to ARELOR on Wed Jul 17 2024 10:49 am

    Could be. There used to be some funny scam here in the states where they'd get you to call a number and then somehow make money from you simply calling that number. I never understood how that worked, since they wouldn't have your account info, unless they were making the money via your phone bill, with the phone company being the middle man in the transaction.

    I asked some people around here and it seems there are subscription services that are activated via phone. Stuff like "Phone +99 999 99 99 99 and you will get an SMS with the most important headlines every week." They charge you via phone bill. I think it is a plausible theory.

    Still, I think it was a bit too targetted of a call to be about such a petty scam.


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  • From Arelor@618:250/24 to August Abolins on Sun Jul 21 16:30:07 2024
    Re: The weird scam call
    By: August Abolins to Arelor on Wed Jul 17 2024 09:35 pm

    You said it. It was designed to lure you to call the number
    the scammer wants you to call. From there, they might have
    tried to convince the gullible to send money or get user
    credentials or something.

    I don't think that secretary has access to any money, other than her own :-P
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  • From Jas Hud@618:250/1 to Arelor on Sun Jul 21 17:25:37 2024
    To: Arelor
    Re: The weird scam call
    By: Arelor to Mike Powell on Sun Jul 21 2024 04:28 pm

    I asked some people around here and it seems there are subscription services that are activated via phone. Stuff like "Phone +99 999 99 99 99 and you will get an SMS with the most important headlines every week." They charge you via phone bill. I think it is a plausible theory.

    Still, I think it was a bit too targetted of a call to be about such a petty scam.


    is that even possible for a 3rd party to charge on a cellphone bill?

    i dont think that's possible nowadays.
    they used to do that on land line phones. I would just say take that stuff off my bill.
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  • From Arelor@618:250/24 to Jas Hud on Mon Jul 22 03:11:43 2024
    Re: The weird scam call
    By: Jas Hud to Arelor on Sun Jul 21 2024 05:25 pm

    is that even possible for a 3rd party to charge on a cellphone bill?

    i dont think that's possible nowadays.
    they used to do that on land line phones. I would just say take that stuff off my bill.

    I suspect it is possible, but ISPs in Spain are very paranoid so if anybody reports a fraudulent charge they will likely put the charging agency in a blacklist.


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  • From Digimaus@618:618/1 to Jas Hud on Fri Jul 26 16:50:04 2024
    Jas Hud wrote to Arelor <=-

    is that even possible for a 3rd party to charge on a cellphone bill?

    Yes as the billing is still handles in the same way it was back in the day. 900 numbers and area code scams are
    less common but they're still around, especially overseas where landlines are still very much alive and well.

    -- Sean

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  • From Jas Hud@618:250/1 to Digimaus on Fri Jul 26 18:16:47 2024
    To: Digimaus
    Re: Re: The weird scam call
    By: Digimaus to Jas Hud on Fri Jul 26 2024 04:50 pm

    From Newsgroup: micronet.chat.general

    Jas Hud wrote to Arelor <=-

    is that even possible for a 3rd party to charge on a cellphone bill?

    Yes as the billing is still handles in the same way it was back in the day. 900 numbers and area code scams are
    less common but they're still around, especially overseas where landlines are still very much alive and well.


    is it really handled the same way though? i'm pretty sure if i called one of those numbers my carrier would just reject it.
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  • From Digimaus@618:618/1 to Jas Hud on Sun Jul 28 17:31:45 2024
    Jas Hud wrote to Digimaus <=-

    is it really handled the same way though? i'm pretty sure if i called
    one of those numbers my carrier would just reject it.

    I've been told by people I trust who work in the telco business it
    still works the same but I have no personal experience.

    -- Sean

    ... "There are people who have money and people who are rich. - C. Chanel
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