Hello Jas Hud!

** On Thursday 07.04.22 - 00:15, Jas Hud wrote to Sean Dennis:

She doesn't need a new computer...just a real OS.

well, not a new one. a different, better one that is cheap.
she probably won't like linux.
i tried that with my mom

There are distros that attempt to look very much like Windows.
did you try one like that?

--
../|ug

--- OpenXP 5.0.51
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Re: she probably won't like linux
By: August Abolins to Jas Hud on Sun Apr 10 2022 09:56 am

Hello Jas Hud!

** On Thursday 07.04.22 - 00:15, Jas Hud wrote to Sean Dennis:

She doesn't need a new computer...just a real OS.

well, not a new one. a different, better one that is cheap.
she probably won't like linux.
i tried that with my mom

There are distros that attempt to look very much like Windows.
did you try one like that?

--
../|ug

There is nothing more lame than a Linux system trying to act as if it was another
system. If somebody wants System X he should use System X, not a something entirely
different that just attempts to look like it. You are not fooling anybody by pasing a
windowsy interface on an Unix-like OS.

My position nowadays when somebody asks me for help setting some OS installed for a
general task is that Linux and BSD is the only thing I support, and if they want to
use Windows because it is so easy, they can set it up themselves since it is such an
user friendly operating system.

It is not that I am a Windows hater. I just value my time :-)

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To: August Abolins
Re: she probably won't like linux
By: August Abolins to Jas Hud on Sun Apr 10 2022 09:56 am

well, not a new one. a different, better one that is cheap.
she probably won't like linux.
i tried that with my mom

There are distros that attempt to look very much like Windows.
did you try one like that?

yeah that's like most of them.
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To: Arelor
Re: she probably won't like linux
By: Arelor to August Abolins on Sun Apr 10 2022 06:47 pm

There is nothing more lame than a Linux system trying to act as if it was another
system. If somebody wants System X he should use System X, not a something entirely
different that just attempts to look like it. You are not fooling anybody by pasing a
windowsy interface on an Unix-like OS.

My position nowadays when somebody asks me for help setting some OS

yeah, these windows clone guis make me want to puke. i'd rather
just run the cli. why even use a poor copy.
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Hello Arelor!

** On Sunday 10.04.22 - 18:47, Arelor wrote to August Abolins:

There are distros that attempt to look very much like
Windows. did you try one like that?

There is nothing more lame than a Linux system trying to
act as if it was another system.

It's really not much different to expect that the UI of an
automobile remains essentially the same across different
manufacturers.

Wrt PCs and grandmothers, it could be easier for a previous
Windows user to navigate the menu/program system much the same
way that they were accustomed to. Nothing wrong with that.

From a brief Live-CD run with Zorin some years ago, the results
seemed impressive.

If somebody wants System X he should use System X, not a
something entirely different that just attempts to look
like it. You are not fooling anybody by pasing a windowsy
interface on an Unix-like OS.

Most Windows users aren't even interested in the workings of a
System X. They just want familiarity of a UI that they have
been using.

My position nowadays when somebody asks me for help setting
some OS installed for a general task is that Linux and BSD
is the only thing I support, and if they want to use
Windows because it is so easy, they can set it up
themselves since it is such an user friendly operating
system.

Back a few years ago, I thought Lindows (now aka Linspire?) was
going to change the landscape and attract more people away from
the exclusive Windows world.

It is not that I am a Windows hater. I just value my time :-)

Back in my day, lack of iTunes support and the lack of support
for at least 3 more Windows progs kept me away from choosing a
linux system exclusively. Today.. with Spotify in the
picture, iTunes is not so critical anymore. But a few other MS
progs such as MS Access have no linux match.
--
../|ug

--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: The LOOK of MicroNET https://kolico.ca/ftn/micronet (618:250/1.9)

Arelor wrote to August Abolins <=-

My position nowadays when somebody asks me for help setting some OS installed for a general task is that Linux and BSD is the only thing I support, and if they want to use Windows because it is so easy, they
can set it up themselves since it is such an user friendly operating system.

It is not that I am a Windows hater. I just value my time :-)

If you're a paid consultant, Windows could be a goose laying golden eggs.


... ZIMA TASTES BETTER WHEN IT'S ILLEGAL
--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
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Jas Hud wrote to Arelor <=-

yeah, these windows clone guis make me want to puke. i'd rather
just run the cli. why even use a poor copy.

You could just run twm with that 16-color background and relive 1995 all
over again. You'd get multiple Xterms and no possibility of mistaking it for
a modern UI.


... ZIMA TASTES BETTER WHEN IT'S ILLEGAL
--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
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Hello Kurt,

11 Apr 22 06:53, you wrote to Arelor:

If you're a paid consultant, Windows could be a goose laying golden
eggs.

I had a career of wiping Windows' ass. Not the most glorious but it paid well.

-- Sean

... "O Lord, help me to be pure, but not yet." - Saint Augustine
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
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Hello Kurt,

11 Apr 22 06:54, you wrote to Jas Hud:

You could just run twm with that 16-color background and relive 1995
all over again. You'd get multiple Xterms and no possibility of
mistaking it for a modern UI.

Even better, set up CDE. Living the glory days of UNIX desktop goodness.

-- Sean

... "Hitch your wagon to a star." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (618:618/1)

To: Kurt Weiske
Re: Re: she probably won't like linux
By: Kurt Weiske to Jas Hud on Mon Apr 11 2022 06:54 am

From Newsgroup: Micronet.MIN_CHAT

Jas Hud wrote to Arelor <=-

yeah, these windows clone guis make me want to puke. i'd rather
just run the cli. why even use a poor copy.

You could just run twm with that 16-color background and relive 1995 all over again. You'd get multiple Xterms and no possibility of mistaking it for a modern UI.

but i would never need that or want that.
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Sean Dennis wrote to Kurt Weiske <=-

Even better, set up CDE. Living the glory days of UNIX desktop
goodness.

I found a pre-packaged kit running Solaris x86 version 2.6 with CDE. I'm reliving most of my early 2000s, which were spent setting up lots of BSD or Linux boxes running Apache, Tomcat, and Java environments with a Oracle database running on Sun hardware.

If I were going to run a retro UI, I think it'd be openbox.


... Wait, this is a *scene*?
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Kurt Weiske wrote to Sean Dennis <=-

I found a pre-packaged kit running Solaris x86 version 2.6 with CDE.
I'm reliving most of my early 2000s, which were spent setting up lots
of BSD or Linux boxes running Apache, Tomcat, and Java environments
with a Oracle database running on Sun hardware.

CDE is available for Linux and other OSes. It's not exactly easy to set up
but you can do it.

If I were going to run a retro UI, I think it'd be openbox.

I use XFCE which is based on CDE as it has a similar feel to it with the way
it works. Good enough for me.

-- Sean

... Good moms let you lick the beaters. Great moms turn them off first.
--- MultiMail/Linux
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Re: she probably won't like linux
By: August Abolins to Arelor on Sun Apr 10 2022 09:14 pm

If somebody wants System X he should use System X, not a
something entirely different that just attempts to look
like it. You are not fooling anybody by pasing a windowsy
interface on an Unix-like OS.

Most Windows users aren't even interested in the workings of a
System X. They just want familiarity of a UI that they have
been using.

Agreed. Those people should be using WIndows because that is what they want to use :-)

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
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Re: Re: she probably won't like linux
By: Kurt Weiske to Arelor on Mon Apr 11 2022 06:53 am

Arelor wrote to August Abolins <=-

My position nowadays when somebody asks me for help setting some OS installed for a general task is that Linux and BSD is the only thing I support, and if they want to use Windows because it is so easy, they can set it up themselves since it is such an user friendly operating system.

It is not that I am a Windows hater. I just value my time :-)

If you're a paid consultant, Windows could be a goose laying golden eggs.

The only Windows machine I have to deal with acts as a controler for a radiodiagnostics unit. It works completelly off-line, no Internet access. So far it works fine and has never given issue.

I don't get paid by closing tickets, fortunately. I am paid for being available :-)

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Re: Re: she probably won't like linux
By: Kurt Weiske to Sean Dennis on Tue Apr 12 2022 06:50 am

Sean Dennis wrote to Kurt Weiske <=-

Even better, set up CDE. Living the glory days of UNIX desktop goodness.

I found a pre-packaged kit running Solaris x86 version 2.6 with CDE. I'm reliving most of my early 2000s, which were spent setting up lots of BSD or Linux boxes running Apache, Tomcat, and Java environments with a Oracle database running on Sun hardware.

If I were going to run a retro UI, I think it'd be openbox.

... Wait, this is a *scene*?

Fluxbox or Blackbox sound more retro to me out of the box without being just barely usable. I used fluxbox intensively back in the day.

Now I am in love with OpenBSD's implementation of CWM. It is very keyboard driven, so not apt for all audiences.

--
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Re: Re: she probably won't like linux
By: digimaus to Kurt Weiske on Tue Apr 12 2022 07:42 pm

I use XFCE which is based on CDE as it has a similar feel to it with the way it works. Good enough for me.

-- Sean

XFCE is what I set up for non-technical users. I would not classify it as "retro" because I am much more "retro" than it :-) Still people likes it over KDE, I think, because KDE looks so cool at first, but then you realize it keep raping your RAM continuously...

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Arelor wrote to Kurt Weiske <=-

The only Windows machine I have to deal with acts as a controler for a radiodiagnostics unit. It works completelly off-line, no Internet
access. So far it works fine and has never given issue.

I worked in Telecom for years, and I'd see all sorts of non-connected, EOL OSes running just fine. I ran voicemail systems running on OS/2 Warp,
Windows 3.51 embedded, and Windows NT 4.0.

OS/2 didn't have a network card, and the Windows VM systems had 2 lans - one connected to the phone system and a customer LAN that connected to a single desktop.

No worries about internet vulnerabilities when there's no internet.


... Do you ever see inconsistencies in your world?
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Re: she probably won't like linux
By: Arelor to August Abolins on Wed Apr 13 2022 07:33 am

Agreed. Those people should be using WIndows because that is what they want to use :-)

As Windows evolved, the userbase devolved in lockstep. I feel that Windows users are either really good or exceptionally bad. Although I use Windows for work, my daily drivers are MacOS-based systems or Linux (RHEL, Ubuntu, etc.). My father, as an example, has been using Windows since 3.1. As Windows got more evolved, I swear he got more lost with it. After putting him in front of a Mac, it seems more familiar and easier to use for him.

Personally, just give me a *nix shell and I'm good.

Brian Klauss <-> Dream Master
Caught in a Dream | caughtinadream.com a Synchronet BBS
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To: Brian Klauss
Re: she probably won't like linux
By: Brian Klauss to Arelor on Wed Apr 13 2022 02:15 pm

From Newsgroup: Micronet.MIN_CHAT

Re: she probably won't like linux
By: Arelor to August Abolins on Wed Apr 13 2022 07:33 am

Agreed. Those people should be using WIndows because that is what they want to use :-)

As Windows evolved, the userbase devolved in lockstep. I feel that Windows users are either really good or exceptionally bad. Although I use Windows for work, my daily drivers are MacOS-based systems or Linux (RHEL, Ubuntu, etc.). My father, as an example, has been using Windows since 3.1. As Windows got more evolved, I swear he got more lost with it. After putting him in front of a Mac, it seems more familiar and easier to use for him.

Personally, just give me a *nix shell and I'm good.

The days of it mattering if you are proficient with computing are pretty much over. I can tell people at a job interview how great i am with computers and how i run servers and vms and they don't give one shit unless I'm up for their few IT positions. If someone can do their job with a computer, that is what they are looking for.

computers are now just appliances.
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Hello Jas,

13 Apr 22 18:10, you wrote to Brian Klauss:

computers are now just appliances.

People are appliance operators. Have been for decades, sadly.

-- Sean

... After we pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
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Re: she probably won't like linux
By: Brian Klauss to Arelor on Wed Apr 13 2022 02:15 pm

Re: she probably won't like linux
By: Arelor to August Abolins on Wed Apr 13 2022 07:33 am

Agreed. Those people should be using WIndows because that is what they wa to use :-)

As Windows evolved, the userbase devolved in lockstep. I feel that Windows users are either really good or exceptionally bad. Although I use Windows f work, my daily drivers are MacOS-based systems or Linux (RHEL, Ubuntu, etc.) My father, as an example, has been using Windows since 3.1. As Windows got more evolved, I swear he got more lost with it. After putting him in front a Mac, it seems more familiar and easier to use for him.

Personally, just give me a *nix shell and I'm good.

Brian Klauss <-> Dream Master
Caught in a Dream | caughtinadream.com a Synchronet BBS

When it comes to computer users, there are just two sorts:

The ones that are willing to learn how to use their computers, and the ones who aren't.

That's it. If presented with a task they don't know how to do, a certain sort of person will read the fucking manual up to the point he needs in order to learn how to do it, and the other will call upon the IT guy and tell him that computers suck and that he sucks.

In my mind, the difference between a typical power user who knows his way around standard tools and a bearded cowboy who smells like horse and runs programs through a debugger is that the first one didn't have the need to learn the difference between GLIBC and BSD LibC in order to do what he needs to do.

I don't think Windows users are different in this regard.

I don't think there is a mid-level computer user anymore, in any field. Those who can't learn can't use the computer for the life of them, while those who can learn just lñearn as much as they need.


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