Yes, yes, I know; I could just *install* a desktop. Which would almost
defeat the purpose of choosing DietPi to begin with! I have no need for
all the extra stuff required for a full-blown desktop, other than what's required for VNC access. ALSA, PulseAudio, video drivers, wifi,
ethern--wait, nope. Need that one!
You get the point...
Hello All;
I'm planning to do a data wipe on the Pi 3B+ that is currently hosting PiBBS. >I wish to discuss the various options for the OS that I would install >afterward.
Currently, I am using DietPi 'bullseye'. I like it, for its minimal overhead >and extra optimization options out of the box. It is possible to send APT and >log data to RAM(or swap, whatever) immediately after installing. It's a >32-bit OS, though, which isn't a problem for the 1 GB 3B+, nor for the >software I would be using. And, it has no desktop installed. Not the end of >the world, since I'm accessing it via network, but VNC is a bit easier for >most tasks.
Yes, yes, I know; I could just *install* a desktop. Which would almost defeat >the purpose of choosing DietPi to begin with! I have no need for all the >extra stuff required for a full-blown desktop, other than what's required for >VNC access. ALSA, PulseAudio, video drivers, wifi, ethern--wait, nope. Need >that one!
You get the point...
Doesn't mean I'm against the idea of using an OS that has a desktop by >default. Which brings us to this post:
What OS should I choose this time?
I would prefer to stick to OSes that are 'supported' in PINN >(https://github.com/procount/pinn), simply for the sake of ease-of-use. PINN >is basically a fork of NOOBS installer. Other than that, I would also prefer >to stick to Debian derivatives, both for compatibility and familiarity.
Target device is the previously mentioned 3B+ with 32GB storage.
Any opinions? (^_^)
McDoob
SysOp, PiBBS
pibbs.sytes.net
On a sunny day (Thu, 17 Mar 2022 18:03:29 +1200) it happened nospam.Shaun.Buzza@f110.n229.z1.fidonet.org (Shaun Buzza) wrote in <2041734975@f110.n229.z1.fidonet.org>:
Hello All;
I'm planning to do a data wipe on the Pi 3B+ that is currently hosting PiBBS.
I wish to discuss the various options for the OS that I would install
afterward.
Currently, I am using DietPi 'bullseye'. I like it, for its minimal overhead >> and extra optimization options out of the box. It is possible to send APT and
log data to RAM(or swap, whatever) immediately after installing. It's a
32-bit OS, though, which isn't a problem for the 1 GB 3B+, nor for the
software I would be using. And, it has no desktop installed. Not the end of >> the world, since I'm accessing it via network, but VNC is a bit easier for >> most tasks.
Yes, yes, I know; I could just *install* a desktop. Which would almost defeat
the purpose of choosing DietPi to begin with! I have no need for all the
extra stuff required for a full-blown desktop, other than what's required for
VNC access. ALSA, PulseAudio, video drivers, wifi, ethern--wait, nope. Need >> that one!
You get the point...
Doesn't mean I'm against the idea of using an OS that has a desktop by
default. Which brings us to this post:
What OS should I choose this time?
I would prefer to stick to OSes that are 'supported' in PINN
(https://github.com/procount/pinn), simply for the sake of ease-of-use. PINN >> is basically a fork of NOOBS installer. Other than that, I would also prefer >> to stick to Debian derivatives, both for compatibility and familiarity.
Target device is the previously mentioned 3B+ with 32GB storage.
Wow, my latest Pi4 only has 8 GB..
I take it you mean 32 MB
Wow, my latest Pi4 only has 8 GB..
I think my zero has 16GB
But its only the cost of an SD card innit?
df -h
Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/root 15G 2.0G 12G 14% /
devtmpfs 213M 0 213M 0% /dev
tmpfs 217M 0 217M 0% /dev/shm
tmpfs 217M 23M 195M 11% /run
tmpfs 5.0M 4.0K 5.0M 1% /run/lock
tmpfs 217M 0 217M 0% /sys/fs/cgroup
tmpfs 1.0M 0 1.0M 0% /var/MiPiFi
/dev/mmcblk0p1 44M 23M 21M 52% /boot
tmpfs 44M 0 44M 0% /run/user/1000
I take it you mean 32 MB
????
Wow, my latest Pi4 only has 8 GB..
I take it you mean 32 MB
All that said my old Pies ? and the new Pi4s run normal raspi OS from those days
but I modified it so they all run fvwm with 9 virtual desktops and xfm
as file manager in one of those desktops.
Same user interface everywhere (laptop, PCs, all the same).
Do most from the command line anyway.
Wow, my latest Pi4 only has 8 GB..
I think my zero has 16GB
But its only the cost of an SD card innit?
Wow, my latest Pi4 only has 8 GB..
I take it you mean 32 MB
Erm, no, I meant 32 GB...of (microSD) storage, *not* RAM. (^_^)
The 3B+ only has 1 GB of RAM.
All that said my old Pies ? and the new Pi4s run normal raspi OS from those days
but I modified it so they all run fvwm with 9 virtual desktops and xfm
as file manager in one of those desktops.
Same user interface everywhere (laptop, PCs, all the same).
Do most from the command line anyway.
I think it's "Pis", or maybe "Pi's" (o_-)
I'm not using Linux for all my devices, since I am a big gamer. My laptop, >and (obviously) my...pies...all have some version of Debian on them, >though...PiOS (or DietPi) or Linux Mint, respectively.
Again, I am looking for simplest possible solution. I have no need for 9 >virtual desktop, when I'd only use one, and even that only rarely...as you >say, most of it is done by command line.
I also don't have the spare time to
do a custom build,
which is why I asked for complete OS options...
Enjoy your day!
McDoob
SysOp, PiBBS
pibbs.sytes.net
Hello All;
I'm planning to do a data wipe on the Pi 3B+ that is currently hosting PiBBS. I wish to discuss the various options for the OS that I would install afterward.
Currently, I am using DietPi 'bullseye'. I like it, for its minimal overhead and extra optimization options out of the box. It is possible to send APT and log data to RAM(or swap, whatever) immediately after installing.
which is why I asked for complete OS options...
Well there exist probably few that have all options one can dream of, I will leave it to others to show what they know.
Gaming? Last time was packman or someting years ago.
Programming and designing [electronics in my case] is more challenging
for me as it gives me something you can actually use.
I'm planning to do a data wipe on the Pi 3B+ that is currently hosting P I wish to discuss the various options for the OS that I would install afterward.
Unless you have good reasons otherwise how about Raspberry Pi OS Lite, which comes in 32 and 64 bit flavours? It's supported by the RPF and is the most well tested path for the Pi.
That's enough to get you going. Then pick a desktop and install what you want for it - there are typically metapackages that pull in enough to get a basic desktop up, but not extra stuff - eg 'lxde' depends on image viewer, terminal and calculator, but heavyweight stuff like LibreOffice
is a recommendation not a dependency.
If you want a more basic desktop for VNC purposes, install a standalone window manager like twm, i3 or fvwm - they aren't desktop environments so don't drag in lots of extra stuff. If you want a clock, a terminal or a calculator you'd have to install them separately (unless xclock, xterm
and xcalc are good enough for you)
Currently, I am using DietPi 'bullseye'. I like it, for its minimal over and extra optimization options out of the box. It is possible to send AP log data to RAM(or swap, whatever) immediately after installing.
I don't think RaspiOS will do that out of the box, but it can be set up manually later.
Terminal, and a file manager, for sure; not sure what else I'd need. I'd
have a full-fledged desktop right behind the VNC window, after all. I keep forgetting that window managers are a thing. These would 'automagically'
work with a VNC connection?
I'm not familiar with DietPi but it seems to be developed by a handful of people. The risk with this kind of project is they eventually stop supporting it and you have to migrate to something else.
For this kind ofFar more hassle than it's worth. A standard Raspbian comes with the
setup, where you're explicitly wanting a desktop (of some kind) I'm not sure that starting with a 'diet' image and then installing a bunch of stuff will give much advantage over just starting with the vanilla Lite image.
I'm planning to do a data wipe on the Pi 3B+ that is currently hosting P
I wish to discuss the various options for the OS that I would install afterward.
Unless you have good reasons otherwise how about Raspberry Pi OS Lite, which comes in 32 and 64 bit flavours? It's supported by the RPF and is the most well tested path for the Pi.
I can't think of any reasons otherwise, good or bad. And, other than a few added tweaks, DietPi basically *is* PiOS Lite.
What benefit would there be in using a 64-bit OS on a 3B+? Sure, on a Pi4 with
8GB, it makes a lot of sense. But...on a 3B+ with 1GB? I can only think of negatives, when considering that option.
Terminal, and a file manager, for sure; not sure what else I'd need. I'd have a full-fledged desktop right behind the VNC window, after all. I keep forgetting that window managers are a thing. These would 'automagically' work with a VNC connection?
I'm not familiar with DietPi but it seems to be developed by a handful of people. The risk with this kind of project is they eventually stop supporting it and you have to migrate to something else.
For this kind
of setup, where you're explicitly wanting a desktop (of some kind) I'm
not sure that starting with a 'diet' image and then installing a bunch
of stuff will give much advantage over just starting with the vanilla
Lite image.
What benefit would there be in using a 64-bit OS on a 3B+? Sure, on a Pi with
8GB, it makes a lot of sense. But...on a 3B+ with 1GB? I can only think negatives, when considering that option.
aarch64 is faster than aarch32. While the pointers are bigger and you
pay some memory overhead for that, you also get better performance.
As I sort-of described in my OP, this Pi will be used (more or less) only as a
home server. PiBBS, maybe a basic website, and that's about it (Oh, compiling programs as well, as the need arises, but I do the development on my PC, since
it's connected to a big display). All of this would be done through network connections like ssh, ftp, or vnc. I certainly don't need gaming options, or anything relating to sound, video, wifi, bluetooth, et cetera. I have a separate Pi4B with PiOS for general purpose use like that.
aarch64 is faster than aarch32. While the pointers are bigger and you pay some memory overhead for that, you also get better performance.
Is it a significant performance gain?
A difference of a few seconds on an hour-long workload isn't worth doubling the memory requirements for some things, I would think. Especially if a particular task were already memory-heavy. This may just be picking nits, though. As stated, this Pi would mainly be used for relatively simple tasts, like hosting PiBBS, a simple website, and maybe a local file server...
However, I *might* need it for compiling Pi-compatible software. Is it safe to assume that one can compile 32-bit apps in 64-bit PiOS? If so, it might be better to have 64-bit, so I can compile for both...
I have a pi4 running freebsd (headless) - the server for the family:
Is it a significant performance gain?
15-30%:
A 64 bit OS can run 32 and 64 bit software, yes. A 32 bit OS can't run
64 bit software. To build you'd need to install 32 bit libraries, but on Debian derivatives that's easily done. aarch64 can't mix 32 and 64 bit software within an application, so you have to compile the whole application one way or another.
MS> I have a pi4 running freebsd (headless) - the server for the family:
Thanks for your input, Mike!
I really don't want to use freebsd. I simply don't have enough experience with it to be comfortable. This is why I said I preferred Debian versions of Linux. I am pretty comfortable working with that, and confident enough that I can do all the things I want to do...
McDoob
SysOp, PiBBS
pibbs.sytes.net
Thanks for your input, Mike!
I really don't want to use freebsd. I simply don't have enough experienc with it to be comfortable.
That's fine of course. What you're familiar with is often (usually?) the best other things being equal.
I suppose I really wanted to put in a
word for the BSDs; they often seem to be lost under the myriad of
linuxes out there :-)
(BTW, I use linux for all our desktops and
laptops: all mint except for an ancient 32-bit lappy. Years back, when looking round to replace XP, BSD desktops just didn't quite hit the
mark; linux scraped in :-) )
I don't want to say that Mint is my favorite Linux, yet. But it's certainly high up on the list, especially with their Xfce version.
Far more hassle than it's worth. A standard Raspbian comes with the lightweight Pixel desktop and VNC out of the box - although its
proprietary RealVNC which some of my other stuff wont talk to, so I just replace that with it with x11vnc, and job done.
On 19-03-2022 00:00, druck wrote:
Far more hassle than it's worth. A standard Raspbian comes with the
lightweight Pixel desktop and VNC out of the box - although its
proprietary RealVNC which some of my other stuff wont talk to, so I just
replace that with it with x11vnc, and job done.
Oh? Which stuff in particular? Their integration is particularly
convenient because it gives you the current session. No need to log out locally or start a new session. In that way, it's like MS Remote Desktop. Also they either have or will figure out a way to make it work with
Wayland. Not sure that's ever going to happen with X based vnc.
I have no need for all the
extra stuff required for a full-blown desktop, other than what's required for VNC access. ALSA, PulseAudio, video drivers, wifi, ethern--wait, nope. Need that one!
On 19-03-2022 00:00, druck wrote:
Far more hassle than it's worth. A standard Raspbian comes with the
lightweight Pixel desktop and VNC out of the box - although its
proprietary RealVNC which some of my other stuff wont talk to, so I
just replace that with it with x11vnc, and job done.
Oh? Which stuff in particular? Their integration is particularly
convenient because it gives you the current session. No need to log out locally or start a new session. In that way, it's like MS Remote
Desktop. Also they either have or will figure out a way to make it work
with Wayland. Not sure that's ever going to happen with X based vnc.
You need to give us some kind of hint as to what you will be wanting to
do with it.
BG> You need to give us some kind of hint as to what you will be wanting to
BG> do with it.
Read the OP? (o_O)
BG> You need to give us some kind of hint as to what you will be wanti
BG> do with it.
Read the OP? (o_O)
So you have no reason to change at all yet want to change just to make things harder for yourself?
What OS should I choose this time?
Target device is the previously mentioned 3B+ with 32GB storage.
Any opinions? (^_^)
What OS should I choose this time?
Target device is the previously mentioned 3B+ with 32GB storage.
Any opinions? (^_^)
I recommend Slackware 15.0, in either 32/64.
Please, feel free to suggest a Pi-compatible Debian OS that you like! (^_^)
If you can't point at some specific extra feature you want just go with Raspberry Pi OS lite.
You're not going to get any better performance if you're sticking to Debian based, just the possibility of worse documentation and more bugs.
If you can't point at some specific extra feature you want just go with Raspberry Pi OS lite.
Minimal overhead, I suppose, is an 'extra feature' that I want. This is why >I'm currently using DietPi OS. It's basically PiOS Lite with a few >pre-enabled performance features...
You're not going to get any better performance if you're sticking to Debian based, just the possibility of worse documentation and more bugs.
It's likely that I will stick with DietPi, or at least PiOS Lite, for this >exact reason. Probably, I will switch to PiOS Lite, though, since it has a >64-bit build, while DietPi is 32-bit only.
I'm certainly not refusing to try other Linux flavours, but I prefer Debian due
to familiarity. I will look into a couple of other flavours that have been >suggested, particularly Slackware. I may just transfer PiBBS to my PC while I >play around with OSes on the Pi for a while...
McDoob
SysOp, PiBBS
pibbs.sytes.net
... I know a good tagline when I steal one!
You might like to try devuan - debian without systemd :)
Fo> You might like to try devuan - debian without systemd :)
But...then what would I use for systemd? (o_O)
Fo> You might like to try devuan - debian without systemd :)
But...then what would I use for systemd? (o_O)
Apparently with Devuan you can choose sysvinit, OpenRC, or runit to use instead of systemd!
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