• Re: Finally

    From Aaron Thomas@1:342/201 to IB Joe on Sun Jul 21 18:45:44 2024
    Okay, I never really understood liberals... for the most part... I'm not sure what they vote for... Higher gas prices. High food prices. High crime rates. Open borders. Bad economy... US dollar is about to collapse.. The list goes on and on...

    BUT... Here is a short video that explains the differences between Liberals and Conservatives.

    The guy in the video explains it quite well, but there are also many other differences in addition to those mentioned in the video.

    He makes it clear that liberals force their beliefs onto others, which is probably one of the most important differences.

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  • From IB Joe@1:342/201 to Aaron Thomas on Mon Jul 22 07:31:40 2024
    On 21 Jul 2024, Aaron Thomas said the following...


    The guy in the video explains it quite well, but there are also many
    other differences in addition to those mentioned in the video.

    He makes it clear that liberals force their beliefs onto others, which is probably one of the most important differences.


    I'm still looking to see what policies they have that make them even slightly interesting.

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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to AARON THOMAS on Mon Jul 22 09:48:00 2024
    BUT... Here is a short video that explains the differences between Liberals and Conservatives.

    He makes it clear that liberals force their beliefs onto others, which is probably one of the most important differences.

    And *religious* conservatives don't force their beliefs on others?

    I would agree that *used* to be a difference, but the MAGA crowd has
    mastered the art of the shout-down just as well as the lefties ever could.


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  • From Aaron Thomas@1:342/201 to Mike Powell on Mon Jul 22 11:05:26 2024
    He makes it clear that liberals force their beliefs onto others, which i probably one of the most important differences.

    And *religious* conservatives don't force their beliefs on others?

    I would agree that *used* to be a difference, but the MAGA crowd has mastered the art of the shout-down just as well as the lefties ever
    could.

    I haven't seen religion being forced on anybody, and I haven't seen religion hurting anybody.

    But liberals forced covid-19 vaccinations on us, forced us into taking 7 million undocumented immigrants, forced us to defend a country with our wallets only (fists not allowed.)

    But somebody forced a liberal to recite a prayer or something?

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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to AARON THOMAS on Tue Jul 23 10:11:00 2024
    And *religious* conservatives don't force their beliefs on others?

    I would agree that *used* to be a difference, but the MAGA crowd has mastered the art of the shout-down just as well as the lefties ever could.

    I haven't seen religion being forced on anybody,

    Pro-Life rulings -- All recent state laws banning abortions --
    including some that "forgot" to include language exempting cases of rape, incest, and danger to the mother -- were backed by/forced through by religious conservatives. Other laws, that would allow the travel of women of child- bearing years to be tracked without their consent, were considered and were also backed by religious conservatives.

    Anti-IVF rulings. Alabama's pro-life laws were so strict that an IVF
    clinic where frozen embryos are accidentally killed (example - power outage
    or natural disaster causes freezers to stop working) could face murder charges under the state's Wrongful Death Act because the frozen embryos were
    considered human beings. IVF clinics had to stop assisting couples with fertility issues. The state legislature has since passed a law making IVF clinics immue from civil and criminal prosecution, but there may still
    exist loopholes around this new law that would allow prosecution.

    Anti-porn laws that go beyond keeping it out of reach of children, and
    which are geared around collecting personal data without consent.

    Any number of "blue laws" that make it illegal to sell liquor and other products on Sundays.

    Some states have laws that allow *taxpayer-funded* adoption agencies to
    deny service under circumstances that conflict with religious beliefs (i.e.
    to make it leagal to deny same-sex couples the right to adopt).

    and I haven't seen religion hurting anybody.

    All of the above are based in religion. The laws that jeopardized IVF;
    that didn't exempt victims of rape or incest, or women in danger, from
    abortion prosecution; and that allow *taxpayer-funded* agencies to
    deny adoptions based on religious beliefs, DO hurt people.

    But liberals forced covid-19 vaccinations on us,

    Operation Warp Speed was a Trump initiative, and was something that
    liberals like Kamala Harris and Whoopie Goldberg originally spoke out
    against (they both made anti-vax statements before the election).

    So unless Trump is a lefty, or Kamala and Whoopie are conservatives, that
    dog doesn't hunt.

    But somebody forced a liberal to recite a prayer or something?

    No, but they can force people to do (or NOT be able to do) things based on
    the religious beliefs of others.


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  • From Aaron Thomas@1:342/201 to Mike Powell on Fri Jul 26 21:34:42 2024
    I haven't seen religion being forced on anybody,

    Pro-Life rulings -- All recent state laws banning abortions --
    including some that "forgot" to include language exempting cases of rape, incest, and danger to the mother -- were backed by/forced through by religious conservatives. Other laws, that would allow the travel of
    women of child- bearing years to be tracked without their consent, were considered and were also backed by religious conservatives.

    I understand your point, but these conservatives that you're talking about
    were elected by voters (Weren't they?)

    I can't honestly say that Biden forced 7 million illegal immigrants on us because we elected him. It's ultimately the voters who force things on people.

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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to AARON THOMAS on Sat Jul 27 09:53:00 2024
    Pro-Life rulings -- All recent state laws banning abortions --
    including some that "forgot" to include language exempting cases of rape,
    incest, and danger to the mother -- were backed by/forced through by religious conservatives. Other laws, that would allow the travel of women of child- bearing years to be tracked without their consent, were considered and were also backed by religious conservatives.

    I understand your point, but these conservatives that you're talking about were elected by voters (Weren't they?)

    Yes, but it still doesn't change the fact that we *do* have religious based laws despite there being "separation of church and state." That being
    said, did they all promise to do such things when they campaigned? If any didn't, their actions aren't the voters' faults.

    I can't honestly say that Biden and Johnson forced 7 million illegal immigrants on us because we elected them. It's ultimately the voters who force things on people.

    Fixed it for you, and it is mostly true, especially of Biden. Johnson and
    his ilk had a good chance to fix the problem and didn't take it for
    political reasons.

    I don't know how many of the 7 million came across before that point, but
    any after that point are at least equally on our Republican "friends" in Congress. I would bet that nearly all of those Republicans, including
    Johnson, campaigned on one thing ("close the border!") but then did something else ("don't close the border!"). So, in that case, that is on those Republicans and not the voters.

    Aside from Trump, I am leerly to trust that any other Republicans will
    stick to any promise regarding closing the border.


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  • From Ron L.@1:120/616 to Aaron Thomas on Sat Jul 27 13:14:33 2024
    Aaron Thomas wrote to Mike Powell <=-

    I can't honestly say that Biden forced 7 million illegal immigrants on
    us because we elected him. It's ultimately the voters who force things
    on people.

    It's ultimately the voters who are SUPPOSED to force things on people.

    We didn't ask for Biden-flation. We didn't ask for the illegals. We didn't ask for the billions sent to Ukraine.


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  • From Aaron Thomas@1:342/201 to Mike Powell on Sat Jul 27 12:27:40 2024
    I understand your point, but these conservatives that you're talking abo were elected by voters (Weren't they?)

    Yes, but it still doesn't change the fact that we *do* have religious based laws despite there being "separation of church and state." That being said, did they all promise to do such things when they campaigned? If any didn't, their actions aren't the voters' faults.

    Sometimes the laws that we desire correspond with religion. In Christianity, "Thou shall not kill" is synonymous with "Murder in the 1st degree." And many people will argue that abortion is synonymous with 1st degree murder.

    Similarly, the left has created laws that correspond with sacrilege. Example: Virginia Democrats passed legislation that allows (or allowed) doctors to murder newborns (post-birth abortions.) Does that solve the problem of conservatives embroiling the law with Christianity in Virginia?

    There will be times when the majority will want the same thing that Christians want (I think it happens quite often.)

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  • From Aaron Thomas@1:342/201 to Ron L. on Sat Jul 27 12:48:32 2024
    I can't honestly say that Biden forced 7 million illegal immigrants o us because we elected him. It's ultimately the voters who force thing on people.

    It's ultimately the voters who are SUPPOSED to force things on people.

    We didn't ask for Biden-flation. We didn't ask for the illegals. We didn't ask for the billions sent to Ukraine.

    You and me didn't ask for those things, but the lefties did. We warned them about the border, and the Obama/Biden administration should have served as a warning about Ukraine, but they did what their television told them to do.

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  • From Ted T@1:103/705 to Aaron Thomas on Sun Jul 28 11:24:00 2024
    Aaron Thomas wrote to Mike Powell <=-


    Similarly, the left has created laws that correspond with sacrilege. Example: Virginia Democrats passed legislation that allows (or allowed) doctors to murder newborns (post-birth abortions.) Does that solve the problem of conservatives embroiling the law with Christianity in
    Virginia?

    Just want to toss out there, as bad as it was, I don't think that legislation actually passed. It had really bad optics, including Kathy Tran trying to answer for her bill, embarassingly, and Gov Ralph Northam's really bad radio interview describing a post-birth arbortion, "the baby will be kept comfortable" and "a discussion will ensue" regarding whether to kill it or not.
    What blew my mind was, how can anything be kept comfortable while it's in a state of needing resuscitation? But after those remarks, maybe within a day or two, those pictures of him in KKK outfits and his nickname "coon man" in both VMI year books and medical school yearbooks came out...so it rubbed someone the wrong way. It ended up overshadowing the whole post-birth abortion blunder. Then his Lt Gov was accused of rape, and the attorney general, for some reason, came out and admitted he had dressed in blackface before. On top of that, Gov Northam admitted to that too, dressing up like Michael Jackson at a party, and even offered to show that he could moonwalk. ...ah, good times. All 3 finished their posts somehow. Not to take it OT too far.

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  • From Ron L.@1:120/616 to Aaron Thomas on Sun Jul 28 14:03:45 2024
    Aaron Thomas wrote to Dr. What <=-

    You and me didn't ask for those things, but the lefties did. We warned them about the border, and the Obama/Biden administration should have served as a warning about Ukraine, but they did what their television
    told them to do.

    And they **STILL** don't believe that their actions caused those problems.


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  • From Aaron Thomas@1:342/201 to Ted T on Sun Jul 28 19:55:06 2024
    Just want to toss out there, as bad as it was, I don't think that legislation actually passed. It had really bad optics, including Kathy Tran trying to answer for her bill, embarassingly, and Gov Ralph
    Northam's really bad radio interview describing a post-birth arbortion, "the baby will be kept comfortable" and "a discussion will ensue" regarding whether to kill it or not. What blew my mind was, how can anything be kept comfortable while it's in a state of needing resuscitation? But after those remarks, maybe within a day or two,

    Even if that legislation didn't pass, it served as an experiment to determine how far insane leftists will go to back up the "woman's right to choose" argument. Apparently, they will go pretty far indeed. Way too far.

    those pictures of him in KKK outfits and his nickname "coon man" in both VMI year books and medical school yearbooks came out...so it rubbed

    The media is evil, and they thought that people would get more emotional about the blackface/kkk stuff than they would over the post-birth abortions. I think they were wrong because I don't even live in Virginia and I'm still repulsed - years later.

    dressing up like Michael Jackson at a party, and even offered to show
    that he could moonwalk. ...ah, good times. All 3 finished their posts so

    I'm a white guy and I was Michael Jackson for Halloween one year when I was a kid. Another year I went as Sadaam Hussein. There was nothing racial about it, and nobody complained. I wonder how people would take it if I did that now, as an adult? lol

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  • From Aaron Thomas@1:342/201 to Ron L. on Sun Jul 28 20:01:52 2024
    You and me didn't ask for those things, but the lefties did. We warne them about the border, and the Obama/Biden administration should have served as a warning about Ukraine, but they did what their television told them to do.

    And they **STILL** don't believe that their actions caused those
    problems.

    Right. Next time I hear someone whining about Ukraine, I'm going to ask them if they voted for the guy who let Russia take Crimea.

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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to Aaron Thomas on Mon Jul 29 09:11:12 2024
    Sometimes the laws that we desire correspond with religion. In Christianity, "Thou shall not kill" is synonymous with "Murder in the 1st degree." And many people will argue that abortion is synonymous with 1st degree murder.

    Most Atheists know that murder is wrong. My recollection is that I knew murder was wrong before learning my Ten Commandments. Only sociopaths and other sick people don't understand that.

    I also find it really odd that many of the religions that believe that "abortion (even before viability) is murder" are also the same ones that will tell the grieving parents of a miscarried or stillborn baby "because your kid didn't live to be christened, its soul will forever be separated from the Lord."

    It would be more sensible, and much more compassionate, to just admit that baby wasn't born alive and/or viable so they are not condemned to an eternal life of torment. That would mean admitting that maybe life doesn't begin at conception, which would ruin all their fun.

    Similarly, the left has created laws that correspond with sacrilege. Example: Virginia Democrats passed legislation that allows (or allowed) doctors to murder newborns (post-birth abortions.) Does that solve the problem of conservatives embroiling the law with Christianity in Virginia?

    Virginia *never* had such a law, nor did they ever have one being considered. Infanticide is, and has been, illegal in all 50 states. That Virginia had such a law even being considered is a falsehood put forth by anti-abortion activists.

    Their governor also never suggested such a law. During the interview in question, he explained what happens when a baby is born that is not viable -- medical staff makes it comfortable and *resuscitates* (you cannot resuscitate something that is *alive*) and then the parents and doctors would need to decide what happens next.

    You do realize that is how nonviable births are handled pretty much everywhere there is modern medical care involved, right???

    The bill in question would have allowed late term abortions, with the consent of the mother and more than one physician, when it is determined that the baby won't be viable or that a live birth puts the mother's life at risk. It would have only allowed these procedures in circumstances of complications and not "on demand."

    It would not have allowed a woman in labor, or her doctor, to terminate her pregnancy.

    So, no, there is not, and was not, a pro-infanticide bill being considered in Virginia. No states currently have any laws allowing abortion/infanticide during or after labor begins.

    There will be times when the majority will want the same thing that Christians want (I think it happens quite often.)

    On things that everyone knows are wrong, regardless of religion, I would agree. On things like aborting non-viable fetuses; not allowing abortions in cases of rape, incest, or danger to the mother; now allowing IVF; allowing taxpayer funded adoption agencies to reject adoption requests based on religious beliefs... no I don't think that is the case.

    $$
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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to TED T on Mon Jul 29 10:00:00 2024
    Just want to toss out there, as bad as it was, I don't think that legislation actually passed. It had really bad optics, including Kathy Tran trying to answer for her bill, embarassingly, and Gov Ralph Northam's really bad radio interview describing a post-birth arbortion, "the baby will be kept comfortable" and "a discussion will ensue" regarding whether to kill it or not

    Tran did misanswer a question, before later realizing that her fellow legislator was describing infanticide. The Governor was describing what happens in any case where a birth occurs and the infant is not viable.
    They often require resuscitation (meaning they have already died), and pallative care (keeping them comfortable) is standard procedure until the parents and doctors discuss whether or not to let nature take its course (continue pallative care until natural death) or to make some sort of
    valliant effort to save the nonviable child, which will usually only
    prolong matters until eventual death.

    The bill in question was one which would have allowed late-term abortions
    in cases of fetal nonviability or danger to the mother. Despite Tran's statement to the contrary, it would not have allowed killing the child once labor had started. Tran later corrected herself and properly pointed out
    that this would be infanticide and is illegal in Virginia (and all other 49 states).

    What blew my mind was, how can anything be kept comfortable while it's in a state of needing resuscitation?

    "Needing resuscitation" = dead. Keeping it comfortable was in reference to
    the time between resuscitation and when the doctors and parents decide what
    is next... pallative care or making some last-ditch effort to try to keep the non-viable baby alive.

    Then his Lt Gov was accused of rape, and the attorney general, for some reason
    came out and admitted he had dressed in blackface before. On top of that, Gov
    Northam admitted to that too, dressing up like Michael Jackson at a party, and
    even offered to show that he could moonwalk. ...ah, good times. All 3 finished their posts somehow. Not to take it OT too far.

    That was a really odd time for Virginia's top politicians.


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  • From Ted T@1:103/705 to Aaron Thomas on Mon Jul 29 14:22:00 2024
    Aaron Thomas wrote to Ted T <=-

    @TZ: fe98
    Just want to toss out there, as bad as it was, I don't think that legislation actually passed. It had really bad optics, including Kathy Tran trying to answer for her bill, embarassingly, and Gov Ralph
    Northam's really bad radio interview describing a post-birth arbortion, "the baby will be kept comfortable" and "a discussion will ensue" regarding whether to kill it or not. What blew my mind was, how can anything be kept comfortable while it's in a state of needing resuscitation? But after those remarks, maybe within a day or two,

    Even if that legislation didn't pass, it served as an experiment to determine how far insane leftists will go to back up the "woman's right
    to choose" argument. Apparently, they will go pretty far indeed. Way
    too far.

    Agreed.

    those pictures of him in KKK outfits and his nickname "coon man" in both VMI year books and medical school yearbooks came out...so it rubbed

    The media is evil, and they thought that people would get more
    emotional about the blackface/kkk stuff than they would over the post-birth abortions. I think they were wrong because I don't even live
    in Virginia and I'm still repulsed - years later.

    Everything is put out to get a response. I don't even know who put it all out there. There were all sorts of rumors.

    dressing up like Michael Jackson at a party, and even offered to show
    that he could moonwalk. ...ah, good times. All 3 finished their posts so

    I'm a white guy and I was Michael Jackson for Halloween one year when I was a kid. Another year I went as Sadaam Hussein. There was nothing
    racial about it, and nobody complained. I wonder how people would take
    it if I did that now, as an adult? lol

    I can only speak for myself. It didn't offend me. At the time, none of it was really that controversial. People have been trained well to react like they're offended. But it's sad these days even if you mean no actual harm, that you need to really apply a filter to yourself before you speak or do.

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  • From Ted T@1:103/705 to Mike Powell on Mon Jul 29 14:35:00 2024
    Mike Powell wrote to TED T <=-

    @TZ: fed4
    Just want to toss out there, as bad as it was, I don't think that
    legislation
    actually passed. It had really bad optics, including Kathy Tran trying to answer for her bill, embarassingly, and Gov Ralph Northam's really bad radio interview describing a post-birth arbortion, "the baby will be kept comfortable" and "a discussion will ensue" regarding whether to kill it or
    not


    Tran did misanswer a question, before later realizing that her fellow legislator was describing infanticide. The Governor was describing
    what happens in any case where a birth occurs and the infant is not viable. They often require resuscitation (meaning they have already
    died), and pallative care (keeping them comfortable) is standard
    procedure until the parents and doctors discuss whether or not to let nature take its course (continue pallative care until natural death) or
    to make some sort of valliant effort to save the nonviable child, which will usually only prolong matters until eventual death.

    The bill in question was one which would have allowed late-term
    abortions in cases of fetal nonviability or danger to the mother.
    Despite Tran's statement to the contrary, it would not have allowed killing the child once labor had started. Tran later corrected herself and properly pointed out that this would be infanticide and is illegal
    in Virginia (and all other 49 states).

    Thanks for clarifying that. That's correct. It was easily blown out of proportion, as would be expected. Both Tran and Northam sounded awful and provided plenty of sound bytes because of this. In my opinion, Northam did a lot of damage trying to clarify. What normally worked for him, his folksy, country, happy charm just didn't sound right talking about this. Second of all, the way you explain it and the way he explains it...his way leaves a lot more to the imagination and he should have known better and chosen words more like yours. I think he was trying to sound compassionate, but fumbled the ball. On top of it, he's a doctor; talking like a doctor in this case, instead of trying to coddle the question would have provided little to pick at.


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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to TED T on Tue Jul 30 10:21:00 2024
    Thanks for clarifying that. That's correct. It was easily blown out of proportion, as would be expected. Both Tran and Northam sounded awful and provided plenty of sound bytes because of this. In my opinion, Northam did a lot of damage trying to clarify. What normally worked for him, his folksy, country, happy charm just didn't sound right talking about this.

    In past, the "folksy" talk of Kentucky governors has not gone over well on
    the national stage, either, so I am familiar with that.

    Second of
    all, the way you explain it and the way he explains it...his way leaves a lot more to the imagination and he should have known better and chosen words more like yours. I think he was trying to sound compassionate, but fumbled the ball. On top of it, he's a doctor; talking like a doctor in this case, instea
    of trying to coddle the question would have provided little to pick at.

    Politicians who are trying to keep both sides of a debate happy try to go
    down the middle of the road and, as you point out, wind up fumbling to both sides. Also, when I got to explain it, I get to sit behind a keyboard and
    can also look stuff up before I type it. I can also read it multiple times before hitting send. Unless I was reading a teleprompter, I would
    probably fumble it up pretty bad "live," too! :D


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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to TED T on Tue Jul 30 10:09:00 2024
    But it's sad these days even if you mean no actual harm, that you
    need to really apply a filter to yourself before you speak or do.

    It most certainly is sad. ;(


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  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Aaron Thomas on Tue Jul 30 17:59:02 2024
    Hello Aaron,

    I'm a white guy and I was Michael Jackson for Halloween one year when I was
    a kid.

    Michael Jackson is dead.

    Another year I went as Sadaam Hussein.

    Saddam Hussein is dead.

    There was nothing racial about it, and nobody complained.

    Why would anybody complain about two dead guys?

    I wonder how people would take it if I did that now, as an adult?

    With deepest respects.

    lol

    I have seen a dead man walking. But a dead man laughing?
    Blacula, inside or outside a coffin, that would be truly scary!

    For Life,
    Lee

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  • From Aaron Thomas@1:342/201 to Lee Lofaso on Tue Jul 30 15:31:44 2024
    I'm a white guy and I was Michael Jackson for Halloween one year when was
    a kid.

    Michael Jackson is dead.

    Another year I went as Sadaam Hussein.

    Saddam Hussein is dead.

    There was nothing racial about it, and nobody complained.

    Why would anybody complain about two dead guys?

    They were both alive when I did it.

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