• Last Time

    From IB Joe@1:342/200 to All on Wed Dec 20 13:08:08 2023
    The Last Time Democrats Took a GOP Candidate Off the Ballot Was in 1860 -They Would Not Allow Abraham Lincoln's Name on the Ballot in Their Slave States

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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to IB Joe on Wed Dec 20 18:06:27 2023
    The Last Time Democrats Took a GOP Candidate Off the Ballot Was in 1860 -They Would Not Allow Abraham Lincoln's Name on the Ballot in Their Slave States


    Their reasoning was probably a lot more shaky. There was no amendment that Lincoln might have violated. We will have to wait and see what the SCOTUS says. I am more concerned about how soon they might take up and hear the case. For comparison, an NRA case that was appealed to them over a month ago won't likely be decided until Summer.

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  • From IB Joe@1:342/200 to Mike Powell on Wed Dec 20 18:34:41 2023
    On 20 Dec 2023, Mike Powell said the following...

    Their reasoning was probably a lot more shaky. There was no amendment that Lincoln might have violated. We will have to wait and see what the SCOTUS says. I am more concerned about how soon they might take up and hear the case. For comparison, an NRA case that was appealed to them
    over a month ago won't likely be decided until Summer.


    HAHAHA... Texas AG is talking about removing Biden from the Texas ballots...
    He says if you can make stuff up to do this why can't Texas use the border as an insurrection and bump Biden off... Ron said a similar thing for Florida... Get your popcorn folks!!!!

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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to IB JOE on Thu Dec 21 09:04:00 2023

    Their reasoning was probably a lot more shaky. There was no amendment that Lincoln might have violated. We will have to wait and see what the SCOTUS says. I am more concerned about how soon they might take up and hear the case. For comparison, an NRA case that was appealed to them over a month ago won't likely be decided until Summer.


    HAHAHA... Texas AG is talking about removing Biden from the Texas ballots... He says if you can make stuff up to do this why can't Texas use the border as
    insurrection and bump Biden off... Ron said a similar thing for Florida... Ge
    your popcorn folks!!!!


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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to IB JOE on Thu Dec 21 09:09:00 2023
    Their reasoning was probably a lot more shaky. There was no amendment that Lincoln might have violated. We will have to wait and see what the SCOTUS says. I am more concerned about how soon they might take up and hear the case. For comparison, an NRA case that was appealed to them over a month ago won't likely be decided until Summer.


    HAHAHA... Texas AG is talking about removing Biden from the Texas ballots... He says if you can make stuff up to do this why can't Texas use the border as
    insurrection and bump Biden off... Ron said a similar thing for Florida... Ge
    your popcorn folks!!!!

    It will remain to be seen if they can make that hold up in court. Colorado didn't make anything up. They determined, after a court case complete with witness testimony and Trump lawyers being given the opportunity to cross-examine, that January 6, 2021 was an insurrection and that Trump
    played a part in it.

    The last time a candidate was removed was not Lincoln. That is internet misinformation. In particular, the Colorado case cited a previous case
    where Judge Neal Gorsich (sp?) ruled in favor of Colorado removing an Independent candidate from their ballot when it was determined that he was
    not elligible to be President per the Constitution -- he was not a natural
    born US citizen.

    So there is precidence for removing a candidate who Constitutionally cannot hold office.


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  • From IB Joe@1:342/200 to Mike Powell on Thu Dec 21 09:14:44 2023
    On 21 Dec 2023, Mike Powell said the following...
    your popcorn folks!!!!

    It will remain to be seen if they can make that hold up in court. Colorado didn't make anything up. They determined, after a court case complete with witness testimony and Trump lawyers being given the opportunity to cross-examine, that January 6, 2021 was an insurrection
    and that Trump played a part in it.


    They did make things up... Would you please site me the court case, date and location, where Trump was found guilty of the crime of insurrection.

    I've listened to a few legal analyst talk on this... They pulled this out of their asses.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aw4wdRs8080

    I know this guy is a Canadian Lawyer/Influencer ... But he's part of a team ... Robert Barnes... well known US Constitutional lawyer...

    There has been no trial... If there was one it was impeachment #2 and he was cleared of it by the senate... did not meet the 2/3 vote...

    Jack Smith is trying to take the exact same evidence, re-branding it, and trying to see if he can't get some action in a partisan arena like DC... Disregarding Double Jeopardy... He knows any conviction will eventually get overturned.... But his only focus is to get Trump and damage him any way he can.

    In my mind the damage to the country has already happened with all this Law-Fare. We had the president of El Salvidor point out the issue. The US will have a hard time renewing their place in the world of democracy after this...

    This is not the first time they did this... The southern Democrats took Lincoln off their ballots back in 1860...


    The last time a candidate was removed was not Lincoln. That is internet misinformation. In particular, the Colorado case cited a previous case where Judge Neal Gorsich (sp?) ruled in favor of Colorado removing an Independent candidate from their ballot when it was determined that he
    was not elligible to be President per the Constitution -- he was not a natural born US citizen.

    So there is precidence for removing a candidate who Constitutionally cannot hold office.


    A constitutional president... Constitution states you have to be A Naturally Born Citizen of the US. That's a no brainer...

    I encourage you to watch the video I sent you... If Trump is guilty of the crime of Insurrection then charge him... Have the trial... Whatever... Most say that the Supreme court will rule on this, quickly... and it'll be a 9-0 in Trumps favor... it might be 8-1... With the new lady who doesn't know what a woman is..

    BTW I posted some videos yesterday with Never Trumper stating what I just stated.

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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to IB Joe on Thu Dec 21 15:12:28 2023
    Re: Re: Last Time
    By: IB Joe to Mike Powell on Thu Dec 21 2023 09:14:44

    A constitutional president... Constitution states you have to be A Naturally Born Citizen of the US. That's
    no brainer...


    The 14th Amendment is also a constitutional precident. What is in question is whether or not he is an
    insurrectionist. The court date that determined this was the Colorado district court date, where Trump's

    lawyers were present, that stated that Trump was an insurrectionist. That happened in Oct-Nov of this year.
    That court case also said that the Colorado SoS would not be able to take Trump off of the ballot.

    BOTH Trump's lawyers and the group that brought the suit appealed. That is how it wound up in Colorado Supreme
    Court. They decided, 4-3, that the lower court was correct re: insurrection but was not correct re: the ballot
    . They said that because Trump was not legally able to hold offce, per the 14th Amendment, that the SoS had
    a duty to remove him.

    Now it goes to the SCOTUS. To turn it over, they have to side with Trump and say that he is not an
    insurrectionist, or they have to say that the original Colorado district court did not have jurisdiction to
    decide that.



    BTW I posted some videos yesterday with Never Trumper stating what I just stated.

    It does not matter what a Never Trumper says. What matters is whether or not the SCOTUS believes the Colorado
    district court finding -- that Trump is an insurrectionist -- is correct or not. I don't need to watch a video
    where someone who isn't part of the case gives some opinion. All I have to do is to be able to read the
    opinion the CO SC published.

    As an aside, I hate the syncrhonet full screen editor.

    /Q
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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to IB Joe on Thu Dec 21 15:19:39 2023
    Re: Re: Last Time
    By: IB Joe to Mike Powell on Thu Dec 21 2023 09:14:44

    They did make things up... Would you please site me the court case, date and location, where Trump was found
    guilty of the crime of insurrection.

    It was in Oct-Nov this year in Colorado District Court. It was the case that was appealed ... by Trump's
    lawyers because of the Insurrection finding, and by the other side's lawyers because of the finding that
    Trump could stay on the ballot .... that lead to the CO Supreme Court case.

    I don't believe he is an insurrection but, right now, you have a court opinion that states otherwise, and that
    is what the SCOTUS would have to disagree with in order for Trump to be on the ballot. Otherwise, he is not
    eligible per the 14th Amendment.

    If it was not for the insurrection finding, Trump's lawyers would have had no reason to ask the CO Supreme
    Court to review the case.
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  • From IB Joe@1:342/200 to Mike Powell on Thu Dec 21 14:41:06 2023
    On 21 Dec 2023, Mike Powell said the following...


    The 14th Amendment is also a constitutional precident. What is in question is whether or not he is an
    insurrectionist. The court date that determined this was the Colorado district court date, where Trump's


    Are you for real??

    One of the main things that will hinder the Colorado decision is section 5... Where it CLEARLY states that "Congress"... That's the US congress not a
    State legislature or a state court.

    Section 5
    The Congress shall have the power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

    This insurrection charge would be a federal charge... Its would be a criminal charge and state matter.

    There is a reason Jack Smith has not charged Trump with insurrection is because he'd loose the case.... Trump wanted to give Nancy 10,0000 national guard solders to help protect the capital. Trump wanted yo go to the Capital to plea with the protesters, his secret service said no. Trump would also have access, via discovery, about the government involvement... Nancy's communications... The FBI, CIA and all the stuff they don't want to talk about.

    https://youtu.be/6k67KJ18SHI?si=uXir8MLkZDvr7UU3

    Here's a video, about 1.5 minutes in the analysis start. This is from CNN and was right down the middle.

    There is only 1, I repeat 1, method that congress has set out to determine if insurrection has occurred and that is by criminal prosecution. And this is something Jack Smith refuses to go a head with.


    Now it goes to the SCOTUS. To turn it over, they have to side with
    Trump and say that he is not an
    insurrectionist, or they have to say that the original Colorado district court did not have jurisdiction to
    decide that.


    Colorado went to a place that was not in their jurisdiction. This falls under the jurisdiction of Congress and not the state, as put forth in the constitution's amendment 14...

    Conservative States are now talking about removing Biden, because apparently you can pull reasons out of your ass... Mark Levin stated that the border crisis alone, where Biden is refusing to follow US law... or the fact that he found an unconstitutional work around to pay student debt after the Supreme Court said no... Could/Should be used.... Now the Red states are considering to fight fire with fire...

    BTW, because Trump was never charged criminally with insurrection... the only remedy congress has given... All of what the Colorado Supreme Court used as rational was unconstitutional because it deprived Trump of his due process...

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  • From IB Joe@1:342/200 to Mike Powell on Thu Dec 21 14:50:53 2023

    A constitutional president... Constitution states you have to be A Natu Born Citizen of the US. That's
    no brainer...


    The 14th Amendment is also a constitutional precident. What is in question is whether or not he is an
    insurrectionist. The court date that determined this was the Colorado district court date, where Trump's

    lawyers were present, that stated that Trump was an insurrectionist. That happened in Oct-Nov of this year.
    That court case also said that the Colorado SoS would not be able to
    take Trump off of the ballot.

    BOTH Trump's lawyers and the group that brought the suit appealed. That is how it wound up in Colorado Supreme
    Court. They decided, 4-3, that the lower court was correct re: insurrection but was not correct re: the ballot
    . They said that because Trump was not legally able to hold offce, per the 14th Amendment, that the SoS had
    a duty to remove him.

    Now it goes to the SCOTUS. To turn it over, they have to side with
    Trump and say that he is not an
    insurrectionist, or they have to say that the original Colorado district court did not have jurisdiction to
    decide that.



    BTW I posted some videos yesterday with Never Trumper stating what I ju stated.

    It does not matter what a Never Trumper says. What matters is whether
    or not the SCOTUS believes the Colorado
    district court finding -- that Trump is an insurrectionist -- is correct or not. I don't need to watch a video
    where someone who isn't part of the case gives some opinion. All I have to do is to be able to read the
    opinion the CO SC published.

    I sent a 5 minute video that should help you... I think. Jack Smith should have manned up and Just charged him with Insurrection in DC a while back. This would all be moot if he had done that... That's if he succeeded.

    Instead he's trying a shot gun approach seeing what will stick and it's only making him look bad and Trump looking like a victim of prosecutorial over reach. Hence his polls go up every time they do something to him.


    As an aside, I hate the syncrhonet full screen editor.


    Change it... Synchronet has some good External Editors

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  • From IB Joe@1:342/200 to Mike Powell on Thu Dec 21 14:52:27 2023
    On 21 Dec 2023, Mike Powell said the following...

    It was in Oct-Nov this year in Colorado District Court. It was the case that was appealed ... by Trump's
    lawyers because of the Insurrection finding, and by the other side's lawyers because of the finding that
    Trump could stay on the ballot .... that lead to the CO Supreme Court case.
    I don't believe he is an insurrection but, right now, you have a court opinion that states otherwise, and that
    is what the SCOTUS would have to disagree with in order for Trump to be
    on the ballot. Otherwise, he is not
    eligible per the 14th Amendment.

    If it was not for the insurrection finding, Trump's lawyers would have
    had no reason to ask the CO Supreme
    Court to review the case.

    Trump has never been charged criminally... the only remedy...

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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to IB JOE on Thu Dec 21 19:58:00 2023
    The 14th Amendment is also a constitutional precident. What is in question is whether or not he is an
    insurrectionist. The court date that determined this was the Colorado district court date, where Trump's


    Are you for real??

    100%

    One of the main things that will hinder the Colorado decision is section 5... ere it CLEARLY states that "Congress"... That's the US congress not a
    State legislature or a state court.

    Yes, but the US Congress has no authority over state ballots. JUST LIKE in
    the 2012 case where Judge Gorsuch decided that Colorado should not include someone who is not FEDERALLY legal, based on the Constitution, on their STATE ballot.

    In this case, they were not only looking at Amendment 14 - Section 3, but
    also at 18 U.S. Code/2383, which is the law that Congress *already* passed regarding insurrectionists holding federal office.

    They are basically saying that if the case should ever go to Federal trial, they believe that Trump would be found guilty, even if we both disagree.

    Section 5
    The Congress shall have the power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the ovisions of this article.

    Legislation would mean by passing law(s). Congress has already
    passed Section 3 (the insurrection section) into a law, in 1862 (revised
    1948), that disqualifies insurrectionists from federal office -- 18 U.S. Code/2383. There is no reason for a court to wait for Congress to decide
    what to do because that was long ago done.

    This insurrection charge would be a federal charge... Its would be a criminal arge and state matter.

    Could be.

    There is a reason Jack Smith has not charged Trump with insurrection is becaus
    he'd loose the case.... Trump wanted to give Nancy 10,0000 national guard sold
    s to help protect the capital. Trump wanted yo go to the Capital to plea with
    he protesters, his secret service said no. Trump would also have access, via scovery, about the government involvement... Nancy's communications... The FBI
    CIA and all the stuff they don't want to talk about.

    Which is why this is good that it is going to the Supreme Court. It is
    much, much better that this happen now vs. after he gets elected.

    Now it goes to the SCOTUS. To turn it over, they have to side with Trump and say that he is not an
    insurrectionist, or they have to say that the original Colorado district court did not have jurisdiction to
    decide that.

    Colorado went to a place that was not in their jurisdiction. This falls under
    he jurisdiction of Congress and not the state, as put forth in the constitutio
    s amendment 14...

    The Congressional part of Section 5... passing an appropriate law...
    happened in 1862, so they've already said and done their part. Jurisdiction will be up to the SCOTUS to decide.

    Conservative States are now talking about removing Biden, because apparently y
    can pull reasons out of your ass... Mark Levin stated that the border crisis
    lone, where Biden is refusing to follow US law... or the fact that he found an
    nconstitutional work around to pay student debt after the Supreme Court said n
    .. Could/Should be used.... Now the Red states are considering to fight fire w
    h fire...

    If they can determine that Biden violated the 14 Amendment, and the Congressionally-passed law that confirms the penalty for violation -- not
    being able to hold office -- then more power to them. I suspect in all
    cases that they will have less likelihood of the SCOTUS upholding their decision than Colorado will.

    BTW, because Trump was never charged criminally with insurrection... the only medy congress has given... All of what the Colorado Supreme Court used as rati
    al was unconstitutional because it deprived Trump of his due process...

    The Colorado Supreme Court case was the result of a trial being appealed.
    At the trial, Trump had lawyers there and testimony was given. So he had due process, just not where he'd like or with an outcome that he likes, and
    quite possibly not in a court that had jurisdiction to decide such matters.


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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to IB JOE on Thu Dec 21 20:00:00 2023
    I sent a 5 minute video that should help you... I think. Jack Smith should ha
    manned up and Just charged him with Insurrection in DC a while back. This wo
    d all be moot if he had done that... That's if he succeeded.

    Instead he's trying a shot gun approach seeing what will stick and it's only
    aking him look bad and Trump looking like a victim of prosecutorial over reach
    Hence his polls go up every time they do something to him.

    I don't think that Smith is trying anything in this case. Sounds like it
    was state electors who are concerned that they might nominate a candidate
    who is not eligible to hold office, which would be a problem.


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  • From Ron L.@1:120/616 to Mike Powell on Fri Dec 22 08:47:07 2023
    Mike Powell wrote to IB JOE <=-

    It will remain to be seen if they can make that hold up in court.
    Colorado didn't make anything up. They determined, after a court case complete with witness testimony and Trump lawyers being given the opportunity to cross-examine, that January 6, 2021 was an insurrection
    and that Trump played a part in it.

    I don't see it holding up.
    1. We have many legal experts already speaking out saying that the 14th Amendment is not applicable to the President.
    2. Also that states cannot apply it. Only the Feds.
    3. No "insurrection" occured and we have mountains of evidence of that now.
    4. Trump was never convicted of playing a part in it.

    "The Due Process Clause is found in both the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments to the Constitution, which prohibit the deprivation of "life, liberty, or property" by the federal and state governments, respectively, without due process of law."

    Punishment without conviction is a violation of the 4th and 5th Amendments.

    The "trial" the the Elitists in Colorado did was just a show.

    So there is precidence for removing a candidate who Constitutionally cannot hold office.

    There certainly is. But there is no precident for removing a candidate who the Elitists don't like and are obviously afraid of.


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  • From IB Joe@1:342/200 to Mike Powell on Fri Dec 22 09:21:49 2023
    On 21 Dec 2023, Mike Powell said the following...


    I don't think that Smith is trying anything in this case. Sounds like it was state electors who are concerned that they might nominate a candidate who is not eligible to hold office, which would be a problem.


    What the difference a day makes... HAHAHA... 19 AG's have filed documents with the US Supreme Court claiming that Jack Smith does not have the authority to be Special Counsel on Trumps case.

    Apparently anyone who is Special Counsel has to be agreed upon by the senate. This is to ensure that a partisan hack doesn't run a-muck during an election year working interference for the party in power.

    If I read things correctly... Smith has asked the court to let the lower court decide Trumps appeals... so he won't have to answer questions.

    This is interesting.... Because if it is found that Jack Smith does not have any authority as Special Counsel... In the court documents 19 AGs referred to him as "Private Citizen" Jack Smith...The poison fruit doctrine kicks in... Simply anything Jack has touched sine November 18th 2022 is now inadmissible in court...

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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to Ron L. on Sun Dec 24 11:59:54 2023
    Re: Re: Last Time
    By: Ron L. to Mike Powell on Fri Dec 22 2023 08:47:07

    I don't see it holding up.
    1. We have many legal experts already speaking out saying that the 14th Amendment is not applicable to the President.
    2. Also that states cannot apply it. Only the Feds.
    3. No "insurrection" occured and we have mountains of evidence of that now. 4. Trump was never convicted of playing a part in it.

    1. There are other experts that say this is wrong, and going back to when it was ratified this was debated and I am convinced it is wrong -- all elected officials are covered by it. The President takes an oath regarding the Constitution -- they are not exempt. If it was a Democrat, no one currently saying it doesn't cover a President would be claiming that.
    2. While a state cannot apply the punishment -- sending someone to prison -- they can determine, via previous legal precident, that a candidate is not eligible to hold a federal office per the US Constitution and therefore cannot appear on their state ballots.
    3. I am not in disagreement with this point.
    4. I am not in disagreement with this point in the sense that I doubt the court that says he is an insurrectionist (Colorado) has jurisdiction to determine that.

    The 14th does not only cover insurrectionist, but anyone who provides comfort or aid to insurrectionists. Persons HAVE been convicted of insurrection for 1/6, even if we don't agree that it happened. So they don't have to determine, or necessarily convict, Trump of insurrection if they can prove he provided some comfort or aid to those who have been convicted.
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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to IB Joe on Sun Dec 24 12:02:11 2023
    Re: Re: Last Time
    By: IB Joe to Mike Powell on Fri Dec 22 2023 09:21:49

    What the difference a day makes... HAHAHA... 19 AG's have filed documents wi the US Supreme Court claiming that Jack Smith does not have the authority to Special Counsel on Trumps case.

    Apparently anyone who is Special Counsel has to be agreed upon by the senate This is to ensure that a partisan hack doesn't run a-muck during an election year working interference for the party in power.

    So who appointed/agreed upon Smith? Was the Senate not involved?
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  • From IB Joe@1:342/200 to Mike Powell on Sun Dec 24 12:35:56 2023
    On 24 Dec 2023, Mike Powell said the following...

    don't have to determine, or necessarily convict, Trump of insurrection
    if they can prove he provided some comfort or aid to those who have been


    And they have to be convicted of that... And the decision would have to be... or could be appealed... and then... after the appeals are exhausted one could say... He was convicted.

    Mike... Look up the punishment for "Insurrection" ... It says... up to 10 years in Jail and a $250,000.00 fine.... Is Trump in jail right now?? NO... Because he was not found, as fact, to have participated in am Insurrection.

    Now, based on your opinion he's guilty... 4 judges on the Colorado Supreme Court said what you are saying.... Without deliberation of FACT in a court of LAW we think that Trump is clearly guilty and as a result he should be removed from the ballot.

    Apparently there are 9, or more, red states using the exact same logic with Joe Bidem to remove him from their state ballots..... Because of the insurrection going on at the southern boarder... Because the Big Guy received 10%.... Bla Bla Bla... Clearly he is guilty and as a result should be removed off the state ballot. Trump and as well as Biden should be afforded due process as the constitution states.

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  • From IB Joe@1:342/200 to Mike Powell on Sun Dec 24 12:53:42 2023
    On 24 Dec 2023, Mike Powell said the following...


    So who appointed/agreed upon Smith? Was the Senate not involved?


    Apparently no one... This is the way it should happen... If the AG wants to appoint a Special Counsel he grabs from a list of SCs that have been approved by the Senate... If they want a different one... The president recommends someone, the Senate vets and votes on them....

    https://youtu.be/OdnGsmMd2Cs?si=o3aFOVkHSBvKlCwH

    Here's a video where a LAWYER goes through the entire brief that was sent to the Supreme Court that denounces Jack Smith and states the reason he has no authority in this case, or anything that is currently going on with Trump.

    I know it's a long video but they explain, 52 pages of rational supported by case law and regulation.

    After watching this video, and others, I got to see how incestuous DC is... U should recognize a lot of names...

    The lead on this Brief is AG Meese, from Reagan's time in office. Him and 18 others filed the brief and it's well thought out.

    Now, the Supreme Court unanimously rejected Jack Smith's attempt to circumvent Trump's due process by skipping Trumps right to appeal court findings and allow his arguments to be heard... The rejection was one sentence long... Paraphrasing it.... "How About Nooooooooooo".

    This rejection could be for a few reasons... Constitution is quite clear on due process... OR They read Trump's brief where he asked to be heard by the appeals court... OR they read the brief that was prepared by 19b AGs...

    IB Joe, Pronouns (FJB/LGB)
    AKA Joe Schweier
    SysOp of 4A 6F 65 73 42 42 53
    -=JoesBBS.com=-

    ... Do vegetarians eat animal crackers?

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/04/30 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: JoesBBS.Com, Telnet:23 SSH:22 HTTP:80 (1:342/200)
  • From Aaron Thomas@1:342/200 to IB Joe on Sun Dec 24 21:31:26 2023
    Apparently there are 9, or more, red states using the exact same logic with Joe Bidem to remove him from their state ballots..... Because of
    the insurrection going on at the southern boarder... Because the Big Guy received 10%.... Bla Bla Bla... Clearly he is guilty and as a result should be removed off the state ballot. Trump and as well as Biden
    should be afforded due process as the constitution states.

    We're gonna find out who are real friends are ahead of the election! Those states who let "insurrectionists" remain on their ballots are tryants!

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/04/30 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: JoesBBS.Com, Telnet:23 SSH:22 HTTP:80 (1:342/200)
  • From IB Joe@1:342/200 to Aaron Thomas on Mon Dec 25 07:38:25 2023
    On 24 Dec 2023, Aaron Thomas said the following...


    We're gonna find out who are real friends are ahead of the election!
    Those states who let "insurrectionists" remain on their ballots are tryants!


    There are patriots working hard... I'm trying to recall... so far no one has been charged with insurrection... And an insurrection is when you try to overthrow a sitting government... AND Trump was the head of that government... So the left, and their media, want us to believe that Trump was trying to overthrow himself with no guns....

    People are starting to see this...

    IB Joe, Pronouns (FJB/LGB)
    AKA Joe Schweier
    SysOp of 4A 6F 65 73 42 42 53
    -=JoesBBS.com=-

    ... Everyone is entitled to my opinion!

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/04/30 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: JoesBBS.Com, Telnet:23 SSH:22 HTTP:80 (1:342/200)
  • From Aaron Thomas@1:342/200 to IB Joe on Mon Dec 25 09:28:51 2023
    There are patriots working hard... I'm trying to recall... so far no one has been charged with insurrection... And an insurrection is when you
    try to overthrow a sitting government... AND Trump was the head of that government... So the left, and their media, want us to believe that
    Trump was trying to overthrow himself with no guns....

    They created a spectacle.

    When Hitler incited an insurrection in Poland in 1939, he deployed 2000 tanks, 900 bombers, and 400 fighter planes. Thousands of Polish troops were taken into German captivity.

    Plus, Hitler actually ordered an insurrection, unlike Trump, who "incited" protesters to protest "peacefully and patriotically."

    Questions we need answers to:
    1) How many tanks, bombers, and fighter planes did Trump deploy in D.C.?

    2) How many US soldiers did Trump take into captivity?

    3) Did Trump mistreat his captives while he held them in captivity?

    4) The weapons that were found in someone's car; did they come from Russia? ;)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/04/30 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: JoesBBS.Com, Telnet:23 SSH:22 HTTP:80 (1:342/200)
  • From Ron L.@1:120/616 to Mike Powell on Mon Dec 25 12:25:51 2023
    Mike Powell wrote to Dr. What <=-

    The 14th does not only cover insurrectionist, but anyone who provides comfort or aid to insurrectionists. Persons HAVE been convicted of insurrection for 1/6, even if we don't agree that it happened. So they don't have to determine, or necessarily convict, Trump of insurrection
    if they can prove he provided some comfort or aid to those who have
    been convicted.

    And what's interesting is that by this logic (and I'm agreeing with your logic), most congress-critters in office today are inelegible to be on the ballot.


    ... I may have settled in shipping.
    ___ MultiMail/Linux v0.52

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    * Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi (1:120/616)
  • From Ron L.@1:120/616 to IB Joe on Mon Dec 25 12:25:51 2023
    IB Joe wrote to Aaron Thomas <=-

    There are patriots working hard... I'm trying to recall... so far no
    one has been charged with insurrection... And an insurrection is when
    you try to overthrow a sitting government... AND Trump was the head of that government... So the left, and their media, want us to believe
    that Trump was trying to overthrow himself with no guns....

    People are starting to see this...

    I think, in general, people are starting to see that certain groups like to throw out labels without understanding what the label actually means and whether or not it applies to the person they are trying to attach it to.

    It's like someone calling Larry Elder or Thomas Sowell "racist". You get that Lost in Space robot voice in your head "That does not compute!".


    ... Are you on an ego trip? You forgot your luggage.
    ___ MultiMail/Linux v0.52

    --- Mystic BBS/QWK v1.12 A47 2021/12/25 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi (1:120/616)
  • From IB Joe@1:342/200 to Aaron Thomas on Mon Dec 25 10:43:37 2023
    On 25 Dec 2023, Aaron Thomas said the following...

    They created a spectacle.

    When Hitler incited an insurrection in Poland in 1939, he deployed 2000 tanks, 900 bombers, and 400 fighter planes. Thousands of Polish troops were taken into German captivity.

    Plus, Hitler actually ordered an insurrection, unlike Trump, who
    "incited" protesters to protest "peacefully and patriotically."

    Questions we need answers to:
    1) How many tanks, bombers, and fighter planes did Trump deploy in D.C.?

    2) How many US soldiers did Trump take into captivity?

    3) Did Trump mistreat his captives while he held them in captivity?

    4) The weapons that were found in someone's car; did they come from Russia? ;)



    I hope that there is an honest analysis of 2020 and whats transpired since..

    IB Joe, Pronouns (FJB/LGB)
    AKA Joe Schweier
    SysOp of 4A 6F 65 73 42 42 53
    -=JoesBBS.com=-

    ... I'd love to help you out. Which way did you come in?

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/04/30 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: JoesBBS.Com, Telnet:23 SSH:22 HTTP:80 (1:342/200)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to IB Joe on Mon Dec 25 13:57:47 2023
    Re: Re: Last Time
    By: IB Joe to Mike Powell on Sun Dec 24 2023 12:35:56

    Mike... Look up the punishment for "Insurrection" ... It says... up to 10 ye in Jail and a $250,000.00 fine.... Is Trump in jail right now?? NO... Becau he was not found, as fact, to have participated in am Insurrection.

    You don't have to be convicted for a federal court to determine that you aided or comforted -- also against the 14th.

    Now, based on your opinion he's guilty... 4 judges on the Colorado Supreme Court said what you are saying.... Without deliberation of FACT in a court o LAW we think that Trump is clearly guilty and as a result he should be remov from the ballot.

    If you have read my OPINION is is that I don't think there was an insurrection, so no one can be guilty of it. But my opinion is worth about as much as a talking head on youtube or on the MSM because I am not a judge. Judges have convicted persons of insurrection as a result of what happened on 1/6/2021. That is fact. Because persons have been convicted, in the courts eyes there was one, and others could be found as providing aid or comfort. IMHO, because Trump is not convicted, that will be the angle that will be used -- aid and comfort.

    Just because we like a politician doesn't mean we can put on blinders and play pretend -- that makes us as bad as any Democrat who has ingorned what HRC got up to or what the Obamas or Bidens have got up to.
    --- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
    * Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to Aaron Thomas on Mon Dec 25 14:10:01 2023
    Re: Re: Last Time
    By: Aaron Thomas to IB Joe on Mon Dec 25 2023 09:28:51

    When Hitler incited an insurrection in Poland in 1939, he deployed 2000 tank 900 bombers, and 400 fighter planes. Thousands of Polish troops were taken i German captivity.

    Plus, Hitler actually ordered an insurrection, unlike Trump, who "incited" protesters to protest "peacefully and patriotically."

    That was not an insurrection, that was an invasion. If you want to read about Hitler and insurrection, google "Beer Hall Putsch".
    --- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
    * Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to Ron L. on Mon Dec 25 14:15:21 2023
    Re: Re: Last Time
    By: Ron L. to Mike Powell on Mon Dec 25 2023 12:25:51

    The 14th does not only cover insurrectionist, but anyone who provides comfort or aid to insurrectionists. Persons HAVE been convicted of insurrection for 1/6, even if we don't agree that it happened. So they don't have to determine, or necessarily convict, Trump of insurrection if they can prove he provided some comfort or aid to those who have been convicted.

    And what's interesting is that by this logic (and I'm agreeing with your logic), most congress-critters in office today are inelegible to be on the ballot.

    I agree. The 2020 Summer of Love was at least as much as an insurrection as 1/6 was.
    --- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
    * Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)
  • From IB Joe@1:342/200 to Mike Powell on Mon Dec 25 13:25:10 2023
    On 25 Dec 2023, Mike Powell said the following...


    You don't have to be convicted for a federal court to determine that you aided or comforted -- also against the 14th.


    Yes you do... That is how things are settled in the US, among other countries... We do it by law and not public opinion...

    BTW, do you recall the QAnon Shaman?? The guy with the Buffalo hat... He's running for Congress, Arizona... A man convicted and sent to jail because of his doings during January 6th... Running for office... and no one cares.

    Trump's second impeachment was all about January 6th and he was acquitted by the senate.

    The Deep State is trying their best, but are failing miserably at succeeding to keep Trump out of office.


    If you have read my OPINION is is that I don't think there was an insurrection, so no one can be guilty of it. But my opinion is worth about as much as a talking head on youtube or on the MSM because I am
    not a judge. Judges have convicted persons of insurrection as a result
    of what happened on 1/6/2021. That is fact. Because persons have been convicted, in the courts eyes there was one, and others could be found
    as providing aid or comfort. IMHO, because Trump is not convicted, that will be the angle that will be used -- aid and comfort.


    I don't have to agree with your opinion...

    An insurrection is an attempt to overthrow the government... Wait... Trump was the leader of that government... He was trying to overthrow himself... Interesting...

    Trump was not there to lead anything. He said go to the Capital and make your voices hear... PEACEFULLY...

    He was later on Twitter telling people to go home... He wanted to go to the Capital to personally ask people to stop... Secret Service said no... Publicly known fact...

    He offered 20,000 National Guard to Nancy and the Mayor of DC to assist on January 6th... This was turned down by both of them.

    A crowed showed up to the Capital and agitators whipped them up. NO Trump supporters had guns or demanded to overthrow the government... The people who entered the Capital were let in by the people protecting the Capital... They took some selfies and left.

    The reason Trump was found not guilty of it during his senate hearing was, in part, because of what I mentioned above. Double Jeopardy prevents a revisit of this...

    But then again... Everyone thus far has been charged with anything but Insurrection...


    Just because we like a politician doesn't mean we can put on blinders
    and play pretend -- that makes us as bad as any Democrat who has
    ingorned what HRC got up to or what the Obamas or Bidens have got up to.


    My blinders aren't on. If there was evidence of anything like an insurrection I would have moved on. I refuse to find anyone guilty of a crime without a trial... and if there was a trial... like the Senate trial and he was acquired... I move on... Like I did with OJ's trial.

    IB Joe, Pronouns (FJB/LGB)
    AKA Joe Schweier
    SysOp of 4A 6F 65 73 42 42 53
    -=JoesBBS.com=-

    ... If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/04/30 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: JoesBBS.Com, Telnet:23 SSH:22 HTTP:80 (1:342/200)
  • From Aaron Thomas@1:342/200 to Mike Powell on Mon Dec 25 14:31:06 2023
    Plus, Hitler actually ordered an insurrection, unlike Trump, who "incit protesters to protest "peacefully and patriotically."

    That was not an insurrection, that was an invasion. If you want to read about Hitler and insurrection, google "Beer Hall Putsch".

    Has there ever been an insurrection before? I used the first thing that came to mind. Perhaps the Revolutionary War was slightly more similar, because it was colonists fighting the government that ruled them.

    Either way, the media and the crats want people to believe that Trump organized a violent uprising against the government, but I don't understand how there's any truth in that. I apologize if you tried to explain it, I just don't get it.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/04/30 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: JoesBBS.Com, Telnet:23 SSH:22 HTTP:80 (1:342/200)
  • From Aaron Thomas@1:342/200 to Ron L. on Mon Dec 25 14:13:11 2023
    It's like someone calling Larry Elder or Thomas Sowell "racist". You
    get that Lost in Space robot voice in your head "That does not compute!".

    I consider Larry Elder a "traitor." He's a cool radio guy, but that's all he knows how to do. He had a chance to help millions of Californians and he blew it bigtime.

    "Vote for me because I'm the cool radio guy" <- Not good enough!

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/04/30 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: JoesBBS.Com, Telnet:23 SSH:22 HTTP:80 (1:342/200)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Aaron Thomas on Mon Dec 25 16:20:20 2023
    Plus, Hitler actually ordered an insurrection, unlike Trump, who "incited" protesters to protest "peacefully and patriotically."

    Jan 6 was not a protest. It was not peaceful. It was not patriotic.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Aaron Thomas@1:342/200 to Alan Ianson on Mon Dec 25 19:37:27 2023
    Plus, Hitler actually ordered an insurrection, unlike Trump, who "incite protesters to protest "peacefully and patriotically."

    Jan 6 was not a protest. It was not peaceful. It was not patriotic.

    Ok,

    USA 1/6/2021 wasn't a protest. Trump's fault! Right? He let it happen!

    Ukraine 2/24/22 wasn't a protest. Biden's fault! Right? He let that happen!

    What's the difference? The narration of words & definitions!

    Blaming Russia for everything is what the globalists want us to do because it's convenient, trendy, and it grants them unlimited access to billions of dollars.

    It's Joe's fault that Ukraine was invaded. Joe left his money-rabbits hopping around near a predator, and some of them got eaten.

    When snakes start slithering around my mice, I kill them to protect my mice.
    I don't sit back for months & months and let the snakes eat my mice, and then begin a proxy war against snakes.

    "America, give me all your f'n money because this is a stick up. I need the money to fight a war against snakes because I was too ignorant to do anything about it when they first came a' slitherin'."

    "Can you put a price on freedom?"

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/04/30 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: JoesBBS.Com, Telnet:23 SSH:22 HTTP:80 (1:342/200)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Aaron Thomas on Mon Dec 25 19:19:48 2023
    Jan 6 was not a protest. It was not peaceful. It was not patriotic.

    Ok,

    USA 1/6/2021 wasn't a protest. Trump's fault! Right? He let it happen!

    Trump told those who were present to go down to the capitol.

    Ukraine 2/24/22 wasn't a protest. Biden's fault! Right? He let that happen!

    How is Ukraine Biden's fault? Russia launched an invasion into Ukraine.

    Biden had nothing to do with that.

    What's the difference? The narration of words & definitions!

    Looking for a narrative?

    Blaming Russia for everything is what the globalists want us to do because it's convenient, trendy, and it grants them unlimited access to billions of dollars.

    I think it is safe to blame Russia for their invasion and war of aggression againt Ukraine.

    It's Joe's fault that Ukraine was invaded. Joe left his money-rabbits hopping around near a predator, and some of them got eaten.

    Joe had/has nothing to do with Russia's milirary plans.

    When snakes start slithering around my mice, I kill them to protect my mice. I don't sit back for months & months and let the snakes eat my mice, and then begin a proxy war against snakes.

    There are snake's about but they aren't Joe's.

    This is not a proxy war, this is Russian aggression.

    "America, give me all your f'n money because this is a stick up. I need the money to fight a war against snakes because I was too ignorant to do anything about it when they first came a' slitherin'."

    Oh, this is a money thing?

    "Can you put a price on freedom?"

    No, freedom is priceless.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Aaron Thomas@1:342/200 to Alan Ianson on Mon Dec 25 22:54:27 2023
    Ukraine 2/24/22 wasn't a protest. Biden's fault! Right? He let that happ

    How is Ukraine Biden's fault? Russia launched an invasion into Ukraine.

    Biden had nothing to do with that.

    Apparently, and this is news to most American citizens, The USA is financially responsible for everything that happens to Ukraine. Fascinating, right? It came as a shock to me also..

    Anyway, that's fine I guess, but here's the part that's not fine:
    Russia amassed troops along the northern Ukraine border as soon as Joe Biden got elected. Once they had enough troops there, they started attacking (2/24/22.) Does that sound like proper management of American assets to you?

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/04/30 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: JoesBBS.Com, Telnet:23 SSH:22 HTTP:80 (1:342/200)
  • From Ron L.@1:120/616 to Aaron Thomas on Tue Dec 26 07:26:30 2023
    Aaron Thomas wrote to Dr. What <=-

    I consider Larry Elder a "traitor." He's a cool radio guy, but that's
    all he knows how to do. He had a chance to help millions of
    Californians and he blew it bigtime.

    "Vote for me because I'm the cool radio guy" <- Not good enough!

    While I won't go as far as calling him a "traitor", I do agree with you. Just because someone's a good radio host doesn't mean he will be a good politician.

    That's sort of why I'm chilly on Vivek. He can talk a good talk, but I have no idea if he can walk the walk.


    ... You're PC if you think a "chick" is a baby bird.
    ___ MultiMail/Linux v0.52

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    * Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi (1:120/616)
  • From Ron L.@1:120/616 to Mike Powell on Tue Dec 26 07:26:30 2023
    Mike Powell wrote to IB Joe <=-

    You don't have to be convicted for a federal court to determine that
    you aided or comforted -- also against the 14th.

    But you do have to be convicted of aiding and comforting.

    I think the problem here is that if the 14th Amendment can be applied without a conviction, then it's in conflict with the 4th and 5th Amendments and the Due Process clause.


    ... Debrief: Wife listening while you talk in your sleep.
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    * Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi (1:120/616)
  • From Ron L.@1:120/616 to IB Joe on Tue Dec 26 07:26:30 2023
    IB Joe wrote to Mike Powell <=-

    But then again... Everyone thus far has been charged with anything but Insurrection...

    The Ignorant Elitists have two main problems.
    1. They can't make a coherent argument to save their lives.
    2. The have relied on smearing their opponent to get them to go away.

    Now they are running into a wall where they need to provide the coherent arguments and trying to smear Trump isn't working.


    ... When all else fails, read the directions.
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    * Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi (1:120/616)
  • From Aaron Thomas@1:342/200 to Ron L. on Tue Dec 26 07:07:55 2023
    "Vote for me because I'm the cool radio guy" <- Not good enough!

    While I won't go as far as calling him a "traitor", I do agree with you. Just because someone's a good radio host doesn't mean he will be a good politician.

    I'm confident that Larry Elder would make a great politician, but he sucks so badly at campaigning that we'll never find out.

    That's sort of why I'm chilly on Vivek. He can talk a good talk, but I have no idea if he can walk the walk.

    He seems radical or progressive enough for me to want to give him a chance. Anyone who calls out the media in a harsh way, seems like a good choice.

    I just wish that he had a political track record; he just don't.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/04/30 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: JoesBBS.Com, Telnet:23 SSH:22 HTTP:80 (1:342/200)
  • From IB Joe@1:342/200 to Ron L. on Tue Dec 26 08:08:01 2023
    On 26 Dec 2023, Ron L. said the following...


    The Ignorant Elitists have two main problems.
    1. They can't make a coherent argument to save their lives.
    2. The have relied on smearing their opponent to get them to go away.

    Now they are running into a wall where they need to provide the coherent arguments and trying to smear Trump isn't working.


    Things are about to get messy... The elites are desperate... Trudeau was on the news complaining about the Climate agenda and what Trump will do to the progress... Even Canada's most hated leader can read the tea leaves.

    IB Joe, Pronouns (FJB/LGB)
    AKA Joe Schweier
    SysOp of 4A 6F 65 73 42 42 53
    -=JoesBBS.com=-

    ... When cheese gets its picture taken, what does it say?

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/04/30 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: JoesBBS.Com, Telnet:23 SSH:22 HTTP:80 (1:342/200)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to IB JOE on Tue Dec 26 14:40:00 2023
    You don't have to be convicted for a federal court to determine that you aided or comforted -- also against the 14th.

    Yes you do... That is how things are settled in the US, among other countries... We do it by law and not public opinion...

    He doesn't have to be CONVICTED. The court just has to determine that he
    aided and comforted. The US Supreme court can do that without him being CONVICTED. I am not even sure what the charge or punishment would be for aiding and comforting, other than you can't hold office.

    BTW, do you recall the QAnon Shaman?? The guy with the Buffalo hat... He's ru
    ing for Congress, Arizona... A man convicted and sent to jail because of his ings during January 6th... Running for office... and no one cares.

    No one has challenged it, have they? What was he convicted of? Must not have been anything major if he is already out and running (which, yes, I knew he is). Criminal Tresspass, for example, may not keep him out of office.

    Trump's second impeachment was all about January 6th and he was acquitted by t
    senate.

    The Deep State is trying their best, but are failing miserably at succeeding t
    keep Trump out of office.

    That is for the Supreme Court to decide. Like I said before, best to get
    it out of the way now than later, when he is the nominee or already elected.

    Not sure this was Deep State motivated, but there is certainly some
    desperation showing in the MSM. MSNBC has been telling audiences that if
    the SCOTUS overturns, then they are certainly making political decisions
    and can't be trusted. MSNBC is trying to undermine the authority of the Supreme Court.

    If they overturn based on the lack of an insurrection conviction and lack
    of evidence of any 14th Amendment violations, I disagree with MSNBC's conclusion. If they overturn based on Colorado having no jurisdiction, I
    would also disagree with MSNBC.

    If you have read my OPINION is is that I don't think there was an insurrection, so no one can be guilty of it. But my opinion is worth about as much as a talking head on youtube or on the MSM because I am not a judge. Judges have convicted persons of insurrection as a result of what happened on 1/6/2021. That is fact. Because persons have been convicted, in the courts eyes there was one, and others could be found as providing aid or comfort. IMHO, because Trump is not convicted, that will be the angle that will be used -- aid and comfort.

    I don't have to agree with your opinion...

    But we pretty much do. I think we both agree that the Supreme Court will decide. One of us (you) are just more confident that there are no grounds
    for them to turn it over. The other one of us, in a message you blew off
    with a "they are just uni-party" response, pointed out that they could
    overturn it if they don't agree he was involved in any insurrection or if
    they do not believe that Colorado has any jurisdiction to make such a
    decision re: who is involved in an insurrection that didn't happen in
    Colorado.

    An insurrection is an attempt to overthrow the government... Wait... Trump was
    he leader of that government... He was trying to overthrow himself... Interest
    g...

    At that point, he was a sitting duck whom some believe was attempting to overturn an election to effectively overthrow the incomming government. In
    the Banana Republics, if the outgoing regime uses the military to stay in power, by your definition, they were overthrowing themselves... which is not correct.

    Trump was not there to lead anything. He said go to the Capital and make your
    oices hear... PEACEFULLY...

    I heard that, too. It is in one of my taglines.

    He offered 20,000 National Guard to Nancy and the Mayor of DC to assist on Jan
    ry 6th... This was turned down by both of them.

    That really proves nothing. You could say he did so "just in case"
    there was trouble. Someone else, like a judge, could look at that and say
    he did so because he KNEW the speach he was going to give was going to
    cause trouble.

    In other words, that could very easily be used to prove he knew what he was going to do was wrong.

    A crowed showed up to the Capital and agitators whipped them up. NO Trump sup
    rters had guns or demanded to overthrow the government... The people who enter
    the Capital were let in by the people protecting the Capital... They took som
    selfies and left.

    In some cases, that is what happened. In others, the persons in question
    broke windows and caused other damage. For example, the group that
    included the young lady who was murdered by the Capitol Police was breaking into the building at the time she was shot.

    Saying they were all just taking selfies is like saying the Summer 2020
    rioters were all "mostly peaceful."

    The reason Trump was found not guilty of it during his senate hearing was, in rt, because of what I mentioned above. Double Jeopardy prevents a revisit of is...

    We will see what the Supreme Court thinks. The Supreme Court can come to a different conclusion than Congress, and their opinion cannot be contradicted
    by Congress. In this case, I do not believe they should come to a
    different conclusion but, if they do, I will accept their decision because there is little way anyone could paint them as "liberal" at this point.


    * SLMR 2.1a * Peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.
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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to AARON THOMAS on Tue Dec 26 14:44:00 2023
    That was not an insurrection, that was an invasion. If you want to read about Hitler and insurrection, google "Beer Hall Putsch".

    Has there ever been an insurrection before? I used the first thing that came t
    mind. Perhaps the Revolutionary War was slightly more similar, because it was lonists fighting the government that ruled them.

    The 14th was written specifically with the Civil War in mind. Although not
    a success, it was considered then to be an insurrection.

    I have never heard it called this, but IMHO assassinating a President,
    which has happened successfully three times during and since the Civil War,
    is an insurrection.

    There have been other uprisings against the government. I would have to
    read up on it, but there was also the John Brown incident where some
    soldiers were murdered which could have been considered an insurrection attempt.

    Either way, the media and the crats want people to believe that Trump organize
    a violent uprising against the government, but I don't understand how there's y truth in that. I apologize if you tried to explain it, I just don't get it.

    They believe he did. I really don't believe he did so. The key would be proving that he intentionally incited the crowd to action on January 6th in order to prevent the certification of the electoral votes and to prevent the next administration from taking over -- i.e. his speech was the trigger for
    an insurrection.

    He told them to go peacefully, but he also instructed them to do other things that could be considred an attempt to prevent the certification, so it would depend on how the SCOTUS looks at it.

    Just like the Civil War, an insurrection does not have to be a success in
    order to be considered an insurrection.


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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to RON L. on Tue Dec 26 14:00:00 2023
    You don't have to be convicted for a federal court to determine that
    you aided or comforted -- also against the 14th.

    But you do have to be convicted of aiding and comforting.

    What would the charge be, I wonder.

    I think the problem here is that if the 14th Amendment can be applied without conviction, then it's in conflict with the 4th and 5th Amendments and the Due Process clause.

    That is certainly what at least one of the dessenting opinions said... that
    his due process was denied.


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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to ALAN IANSON on Tue Dec 26 14:09:00 2023
    Plus, Hitler actually ordered an insurrection, unlike Trump, who "incited" protesters to protest "peacefully and patriotically."

    Jan 6 was not a protest. It was not peaceful. It was not patriotic.

    I disagree in the sense that it was very much a protest.


    * SLMR 2.1a * I'm a nocturnal model
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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to AARON THOMAS on Tue Dec 26 14:11:00 2023
    Jan 6 was not a protest. It was not peaceful. It was not patriotic.

    Ok,

    USA 1/6/2021 wasn't a protest. Trump's fault! Right? He let it happen!

    Not sure Al understands the definition of protest. Many of them are not at
    all peaceful. As a matter of fact, I am pretty sure the actions of many
    during the 2020 Summer of Love were defended because they were "protesting" to have their voices heard and had to get a little less than "mostly peaceful" in order to do so.


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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to ALAN IANSON on Tue Dec 26 14:29:00 2023
    Trump told those who were present to go down to the capitol.

    He also told them to peacefully make their voices heard but you are correct
    in pointing out that not all of them heeded this request.


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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to AARON THOMAS on Tue Dec 26 14:46:00 2023
    Anyway, that's fine I guess, but here's the part that's not fine:
    Russia amassed troops along the northern Ukraine border as soon as Joe Biden go
    elected. Once they had enough troops there, they started attacking (2/24/22.)
    oes that sound like proper management of American assets to you?

    Russia had figured out by then that we'd elected a pushover. Their big
    hint was the manner in which the Afghanistan withdrawl was executed.


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  • From IB Joe@1:342/200 to Mike Powell on Tue Dec 26 14:22:39 2023
    On 26 Dec 2023, Mike Powell said the following...


    He doesn't have to be CONVICTED. The court just has to determine that he aided and comforted. The US Supreme court can do that without him being CONVICTED. I am not even sure what the charge or punishment would be for aiding and comforting, other than you can't hold office.


    The only place where this has been heard is the Senate trial and he was acquired by the senate... Double Jeopardy prevents him from being retried on the matter. Jack Smith and the Democrats are trying to take the same fact patterns and retry him... The constitution will prevail...

    BTW, Supreme courts don't find someone innocent or guilty... They look at the law and how its been implemented... That's it. Donald Trump would have to be found guilty, by law, and the Supreme Court would analyze that ruling after the appellate court reviewed the lower court decision....

    Thats the way its worked for over 250 years... and that's the way it works now. The constitution restricts the government and doesn't give powers to remove the right of the people to vote people into office.

    It sounds like you really-reall-really want this to be so... But it's not so. I say let democracy win and the people can vote whoever they want.


    No one has challenged it, have they? What was he convicted of? Must
    not have been anything major if he is already out and running (which,
    yes, I knew he is). Criminal Tresspass, for example, may not keep him
    out of office.


    No one during the J6 protest has been convicted of anything treasonous... and the QAnon Shaman is running for congress...

    There was no insurrection on J6... it was a protest gone bad. Trump left office on January 20th... he put out a Tweet on January 6th telling everyone to go home... He did this after the Secret Service forbid him to go to the Capital to cool things down...


    That is for the Supreme Court to decide. Like I said before, best to get it out of the way now than later, when he is the nominee or already elected.

    Not sure this was Deep State motivated, but there is certainly some desperation showing in the MSM. MSNBC has been telling audiences that if the SCOTUS overturns, then they are certainly making political decisions and can't be trusted. MSNBC is trying to undermine the authority of the Supreme Court.

    If they overturn based on the lack of an insurrection conviction and lack of evidence of any 14th Amendment violations, I disagree with MSNBC's conclusion. If they overturn based on Colorado having no jurisdiction, I would also disagree with MSNBC.


    I'm not sure if you're new to the US... But just because you really-really-really want something doesn't make it so...

    With this new president about 3/4s or more of the house and senate will be taken off the ballot... Every time someone who really represents the people, and not part of the Elites... the states will challenge the candidate...

    Now that they have impeached Trump a second time when he wasn't even in office... you impeach people to remove them from office... Trump was not in office.... So... Recall the hot-mic moment when Obama to a Russian representative to tell Putin to hold off until the election was over because he'd have more flexibility then... we'll if that ain't Russia collusion I don't know what is... Impeach Bush about the lies about weapons of mass destruction... and while we are at it lets revisit Clinton's BJ.

    Law-fare is stupid... If Joe Biden's policies are soooooo great... run on them.

    IB Joe, Pronouns (FJB/LGB)
    AKA Joe Schweier
    SysOp of 4A 6F 65 73 42 42 53
    -=JoesBBS.com=-

    ... A .GIF is worth a thousand .TXT.

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  • From Aaron Thomas@1:342/200 to Mike Powell on Tue Dec 26 18:54:24 2023
    He told them to go peacefully, but he also instructed them to do other things that could be considred an attempt to prevent the certification,
    so it would depend on how the SCOTUS looks at it.

    I think I understand now and agree. I wasn't there, so I can't say what was said; I can't make a judgement based on video footage from the media, and I don't know precisely what the laws are in Colorado. It's possible that Trump may have violated Colorado law, by their standards, without ever having visited Colorado.

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  • From Aaron Thomas@1:342/200 to Mike Powell on Tue Dec 26 19:05:28 2023
    Trump told those who were present to go down to the capitol.

    He also told them to peacefully make their voices heard but you are correct in pointing out that not all of them heeded this request.

    But of course, if we were there, we might have seen a different story unfold. We can't take the media's word for it about ANYTHING.

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  • From Ron L.@1:120/616 to Aaron Thomas on Wed Dec 27 08:08:28 2023
    Aaron Thomas wrote to Dr. What <=-

    He seems radical or progressive enough for me to want to give him a chance. Anyone who calls out the media in a harsh way, seems like a
    good choice.

    Maxim 29. The enemy of my enemy is my enemy's enemy. No more. No less.
    - Schlock Mercenery 70 Maxims for highly effective mercenaries

    I just wish that he had a political track record; he just don't.

    Ya. I really wish he's be Trump's VP, but it looks like Vivek doesn't want that.


    ... I've seen condom vending machines, but this one installs.
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  • From Ron L.@1:120/616 to IB Joe on Wed Dec 27 08:08:28 2023
    IB Joe wrote to Dr. What <=-

    Things are about to get messy... The elites are desperate... Trudeau
    was on the news complaining about the Climate agenda and what Trump
    will do to the progress... Even Canada's most hated leader can read the tea leaves.

    These people want to decide Reality and cannot accept Reality even when it's biting them on the rear.


    ... When choosing between two evils, select the newer one.
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  • From Ron L.@1:120/616 to Mike Powell on Wed Dec 27 08:08:28 2023
    Mike Powell wrote to Dr. What <=-

    But you do have to be convicted of aiding and comforting.

    What would the charge be, I wonder.

    I thought aiding and abetting a criminal act was a criminal act.


    ... A Smith & Wesson beats four aces every time.
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  • From IB Joe@1:342/200 to Ron L. on Wed Dec 27 06:45:01 2023
    On 27 Dec 2023, Ron L. said the following...


    These people want to decide Reality and cannot accept Reality even when it's biting them on the rear.


    I wish I never got to see this... But since I have I want to make sure I see a conclusion.

    Red Pill!!!!

    IB Joe, Pronouns (FJB/LGB)
    AKA Joe Schweier
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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to IB JOE on Wed Dec 27 10:37:00 2023
    Thats the way its worked for over 250 years... and that's the way it works now
    The constitution restricts the government and doesn't give powers to remove t
    right of the people to vote people into office.

    Except it clearly does have that power if they are not old enough, not born here, or if they violate the 14th Amendment. Gorsuch previously ruled that it has such power.

    It sounds like you really-reall-really want this to be so... But it's not so. say let democracy win and the people can vote whoever they want.

    Odd because I keep saying we need to let the SCOTUS decide, but that we
    cannot just assume they will find in Trump's favor -- both of which are correct. I do really, really want the SCOTUS to make a decision -- any decision -- so we can move on.

    That is for the Supreme Court to decide. Like I said before, best to get
    it out of the way now than later, when he is the nominee or already elected.

    Not sure this was Deep State motivated, but there is certainly some desperation showing in the MSM. MSNBC has been telling audiences that if
    the SCOTUS overturns, then they are certainly making political decisions and can't be trusted. MSNBC is trying to undermine the authority of the Supreme Court.

    If they overturn based on the lack of an insurrection conviction and lack
    of evidence of any 14th Amendment violations, I disagree with MSNBC's conclusion. If they overturn based on Colorado having no jurisdiction, I
    would also disagree with MSNBC.


    I'm not sure if you're new to the US... But just because you really-really-rea
    y want something doesn't make it so...

    Maybe you are new to English? Where above did I say that I really, really
    want something to be so? I really, really want the SCOTUS to decide this,
    yes, but they should. They need to issue an opinion and not just blow it
    off. What they decide I have no real "want."


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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to AARON THOMAS on Wed Dec 27 09:48:00 2023
    He told them to go peacefully, but he also instructed them to do other things that could be considred an attempt to prevent the certification, so it would depend on how the SCOTUS looks at it.

    I think I understand now and agree. I wasn't there, so I can't say what was sa
    ; I can't make a judgement based on video footage from the media, and I don't ow precisely what the laws are in Colorado. It's possible that Trump may have olated Colorado law, by their standards, without ever having visited Colorado.

    Google "Trump Jan 6 speech." The AP has the full text available, with expletives redacted. I have read it. I don't think that he ever
    specifically asks them to do anything wrong. The only basis I would see is that he knew he was talking to an angry audience, and asking them to march
    down Pennsylvania Avenue while angry was enough.

    The other basis could be that it is not heard of for a losing candidate to
    hold a rally in Washington, DC, on cerification day and that asking
    rallygoers to march is enough -- i.e. the intent is in holding a rally and
    a march to begin with. That was a mistake, and I don't think we need
    hindsight to tell us that.

    Based on the speech alone, I honestly don't see a basis for holding him responsible. I do think it is likely for the SCOTUS to overturn, but they
    do need to look at it and not just toss it. Otherwise, we have a section
    of the population that won't believe it wasn't done for political reasons.


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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to AARON THOMAS on Wed Dec 27 09:56:00 2023
    He also told them to peacefully make their voices heard but you are correct in pointing out that not all of them heeded this request.

    But of course, if we were there, we might have seen a different story unfold.
    can't take the media's word for it about ANYTHING.

    This is true. There were many who never entered or attempted to enter the Capitol. There were many who apparently took at least semi-guided tours --
    the Shaman is one. There were also some who very definately attempting to break out windows and doors in order to gain access -- the young lady who
    was murdered by the Capitol Police was in such a group.

    You cannot rely on one media source, you have to look at the whole of what
    is presented since you were not there.

    All I can say is if you were there that day, and did not leave as soon as things got ugly, that was a big mistake.


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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to RON L. on Wed Dec 27 10:01:00 2023
    But you do have to be convicted of aiding and comforting.

    What would the charge be, I wonder.

    I thought aiding and abetting a criminal act was a criminal act.

    It is I am sure, but is there such a thing as aiding and abetting an insurrection?


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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to RON L. on Wed Dec 27 10:02:00 2023
    It's kind of hard to discuss something when "good" can mean "bad" in one sentance, then mean "mostly bad" in another.

    Or when "peaceful" means just that in one, but can also mean "if you ignore
    the fires and looting" in the next? ;)


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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to RON L. on Wed Dec 27 10:04:00 2023
    Trump told those who were present to go down to the capitol.

    He also told them to peacefully make their voices heard but you are correct in pointing out that not all of them heeded this request.

    You mean the feds that were planted in the crowds?

    And the antifia?

    That is something I never accepted about that plot against your governor. Supposedly, that group was anti-government in general -- they didn't even
    like Trump -- and was very unmotivated to do anything until that FBI plant infiltrated them. He got them motivated and to choose a target that made
    them look like MAGA when they really were not.

    Without the motivation from the plant, do they even ever get around to
    doing anything?


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  • From IB Joe@1:342/200 to Mike Powell on Wed Dec 27 09:09:58 2023
    On 27 Dec 2023, Mike Powell said the following...


    Except it clearly does have that power if they are not old enough, not born here, or if they violate the 14th Amendment. Gorsuch previously ruled that it has such power.


    I understand if you just came to the US a few years ago and you have no understanding of the rule of law...

    If someone wasn't born in the US there'd be a hearing of some manner where evidence would be presented and there would be facts of law presented and a judge/jurry would make a ruling... There would be an appeal... and whatnot... BTW, there could be a bunch of people, such as yourself, that could form an opinion and not vote for them ...

    Recall Hillary did this to Barry when she was running against him....

    Trump was impeached by the house, acquitted by the senate on the...

    The Guardian wrote....

    "After just five days of debate in the chamber that was the scene of last month's invasion, a divided Senate fell 10 votes short of the two-thirds majority required to convict high crimes and misdemeanors. A conviction would have allowed the Senate to vote to disqualify him from holding future office."

    Had Nancy Pelosi's scheme worked and the senate voted to convict Trump with the 2/3 vote he wouldn't be allowed.... But since the senate cleared him of the allegations he's allowed to run.

    IB Joe, Pronouns (FJB/LGB)
    AKA Joe Schweier
    SysOp of 4A 6F 65 73 42 42 53
    -=JoesBBS.com=-

    ... If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting?

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  • From Aaron Thomas@1:342/200 to Mike Powell on Wed Dec 27 09:19:31 2023
    Google "Trump Jan 6 speech." The AP has the full text available, with expletives redacted. I have read it. I don't think that he ever specifically asks them to do anything wrong. The only basis I would see is that he knew he was talking to an angry audience, and asking them to march down Pennsylvania Avenue while angry was enough.

    I can't find anything wrong with what he said. But lawyers probably can.

    The other basis could be that it is not heard of for a losing candidate
    to hold a rally in Washington, DC, on cerification day and that asking rallygoers to march is enough -- i.e. the intent is in holding a rally
    and a march to begin with. That was a mistake, and I don't think we need hindsight to tell us that.

    Yes but nothing Trump ever did was heard of. The loser's rally was unheard of, but it was a way for Trump to let supporters know that he's not abandoning them. (Some of them just disappear into the darkness and go back to working at some law firm.)

    Based on the speech alone, I honestly don't see a basis for holding him responsible. I do think it is likely for the SCOTUS to overturn, but
    they do need to look at it and not just toss it. Otherwise, we have a section of the population that won't believe it wasn't done for
    political reasons.

    The Supreme Court doesn't get the credit they deserve. Remember when they upheld Trump's Remain in Mexico executive order? The media trashed the USSC when they did that. They sent a message to the brainwashees that "we don't take the USSC ruling as an answer, when it's not the answer we wanted."

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  • From Aaron Thomas@1:342/200 to Mike Powell on Wed Dec 27 09:29:57 2023
    All I can say is if you were there that day, and did not leave as soon as things got ugly, that was a big mistake.

    I was very disappointed with the news that "Trump lost." But not disappointed enough to damage government property! Who is that insane? Not me, not you.. But "MAGA People?" That defies logic, but it supports the narrative that "that is how Trump supporters behave."

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  • From Ron L.@1:120/616 to Mike Powell on Thu Dec 28 07:28:11 2023
    Mike Powell wrote to Dr. What <=-

    But you do have to be convicted of aiding and comforting.

    What would the charge be, I wonder.

    I thought aiding and abetting a criminal act was a criminal act.

    It is I am sure, but is there such a thing as aiding and abetting an insurrection?

    I would assume that "insurrection" is a criminal act. So aiding and abetting it would also be criminal.


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  • From Ron L.@1:120/616 to Aaron Thomas on Thu Dec 28 07:28:11 2023
    Aaron Thomas wrote to Mike Powell <=-

    I can't find anything wrong with what he said. But lawyers probably
    can.

    "If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him."


    ... You have PMS and a Handgun? I'll go quietly.....
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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to AARON THOMAS on Thu Dec 28 08:42:00 2023
    The other basis could be that it is not heard of for a losing candidate to hold a rally in Washington, DC, on cerification day and that asking rallygoers to march is enough -- i.e. the intent is in holding a rally and a march to begin with. That was a mistake, and I don't think we need
    hindsight to tell us that.

    Yes but nothing Trump ever did was heard of. The loser's rally was unheard of,
    ut it was a way for Trump to let supporters know that he's not abandoning them
    (Some of them just disappear into the darkness and go back to working at some w firm.)

    And it was a big mistake. We'd be going through none of this
    "insurrection" stuff of the past nearly 3 years if he'd not done that. He
    has made a lot of mistakes since then. We now have another "perfect phone call" of him asking Michigan officials not to certify election results. No
    way you can reframe that one as "asking for a recount."


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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to AARON THOMAS on Thu Dec 28 08:58:00 2023
    All I can say is if you were there that day, and did not leave as soon as >MP> things got ugly, that was a big mistake.

    I was very disappointed with the news that "Trump lost." But not disappointed e
    ough to damage government property! Who is that insane? Not me, not you.. But >MAGA People?" That defies logic, but it supports the narrative that "that is ho
    Trump supporters behave."

    That is how some of them behave. The young lady who was shot was breaking through a window -- which did NOT justify lethal force -- was a
    Trump supporter and the group she was with was breaking in and damaging government property.

    You and I might not, but I don't think even Trump realized that some of his supporters were feverent enough to act just like 2020 Summer of Love protesters. Holding a rally where you talk about the election being stolen from you and how they need to fight like hell might just stir such folks
    right up.


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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to RON L. on Thu Dec 28 08:47:00 2023
    Without the motivation from the plant, do they even ever get around to doing anything?

    Nope. But the FBI has a track record of doing that. They just don't plant someone to get information and stop them when they start to actually do something. Instead they push the group "over the edge" into something that they really would never have done.

    It's entrapment and should be handled as such.

    And yet they are unable to stop others they have knowledge of until they've shot up a grocery store or a church or... They are really not very good at
    what they are supposed to be doing.


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  • From Aaron Thomas@1:342/200 to Ron L. on Thu Dec 28 18:49:13 2023
    I can't find anything wrong with what he said. But lawyers probably can.

    "If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men,
    I will find something in them which will hang him."

    Which Democrat said that? ;)

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  • From Aaron Thomas@1:342/200 to Mike Powell on Thu Dec 28 19:16:22 2023
    Yes but nothing Trump ever did was heard of. The loser's rally was unhea of,
    ut it was a way for Trump to let supporters know that he's not abandonin them
    (Some of them just disappear into the darkness and go back to working at w firm.)

    And it was a big mistake. We'd be going through none of this "insurrection" stuff of the past nearly 3 years if he'd not done that.
    He has made a lot of mistakes since then. We now have another "perfect phone call" of him asking Michigan officials not to certify election results. No way you can reframe that one as "asking for a recount."

    Let's hope it doesn't yield another Biden term.

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  • From Ron L.@1:120/616 to Mike Powell on Fri Dec 29 07:53:02 2023
    Mike Powell wrote to Dr. What <=-

    And yet they are unable to stop others they have knowledge of until they've shot up a grocery store or a church or... They are really not
    very good at what they are supposed to be doing.

    Yup. It's hard, especially with the Elitists running the show, to tell whether they are just incompetent or doing it on purpose.

    Regardless, they need to be fired.


    ... To every exception there is a rule.
    ___ MultiMail/Linux v0.52

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  • From Ron L.@1:120/616 to Aaron Thomas on Fri Dec 29 07:53:02 2023
    Aaron Thomas wrote to Dr. What <=-

    "If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men,
    I will find something in them which will hang him."

    Which Democrat said that? ;)

    It's attributed to Cardinal Richelieu who was certainly an Elitist.


    ... I'd love to, but my patent is pending.
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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to AARON THOMAS on Fri Dec 29 11:14:00 2023
    And it was a big mistake. We'd be going through none of this "insurrection" stuff of the past nearly 3 years if he'd not done that. He has made a lot of mistakes since then. We now have another "perfect phone call" of him asking Michigan officials not to certify election results. No way you can reframe that one as "asking for a recount."

    Let's hope it doesn't yield another Biden term.

    Indeed. Trump's polling numbers did shift some after the news of the
    Michigan phone call got out. Not numbers vs. Biden necessarily, but
    numbers regarding whether or not people believe he should be President
    again.

    What I had not paid attention to before until this discussion came up... in
    the 1/6 speech, a lot of Trump's justification for claiming the election
    was stolen involved citing polls. Political polls have been pretty bad wrong since at least 2016 when it comes to foretelling the future so someone not winning who appears to be ahead in the polls should surprise no one.


    * SLMR 2.1a * Gimme three chili dogs and a malt.
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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to RON L. on Fri Dec 29 11:14:00 2023
    And yet they are unable to stop others they have knowledge of until they've shot up a grocery store or a church or... They are really not very good at what they are supposed to be doing.

    Yup. It's hard, especially with the Elitists running the show, to tell whether
    they are just incompetent or doing it on purpose.

    Regardless, they need to be fired.

    At the very least their bosses need firing.


    * SLMR 2.1a * Innocent critters *squashed* on the highway of life!
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  • From Aaron Thomas@1:342/200 to Mike Powell on Fri Dec 29 13:10:56 2023
    Let's hope it doesn't yield another Biden term.

    Indeed. Trump's polling numbers did shift some after the news of the Michigan phone call got out. Not numbers vs. Biden necessarily, but numbers regarding whether or not people believe he should be President again.

    What I had not paid attention to before until this discussion came up... in the 1/6 speech, a lot of Trump's justification for claiming the election was stolen involved citing polls. Political polls have been pretty bad wrong since at least 2016 when it comes to foretelling the future so someone not winning who appears to be ahead in the polls
    should surprise no one.

    We could take a "Fidonet poll" and the media would be completely capable of making "Fidonet poll" sound like it's the most important poll in the world.

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