On 09 Feb 2023, Dale Shipp said the following...

On 02-08-23 08:14, Ib Joe <=-
spoke to Björn Felten about Re: Trump has never told <=-

And those lies are only the ones told in public. Does not include e.g. lies told to IRS, investors and bankers about the value of his properties...

This is not true... Like everyone... Trump thought his properties wer valued at one level while others think they are valued at an other level. Just look at ANY real estate transaction... Seller
thinks their property is awesome and they want top dollar
whereas the buyer doesn't think so and they find some price
that they agree upon...

The problem with your statement is that Trump put a value on a property that was high when applying for a bank loan, and then a low value on the *same* property when reporting to the IRS.

That's not true... I do taxes and have for over 30 years... If someone wanted to screw the IRS out of money one would want to inflate the value of the properties with the IRS because depreciation is a percentage of the value of the property.... ie the higher the property the bigger the tax break.

The NY state attorney investigating this dropped this a while back, and did so publicly, because THEY found that Trumps properties assessed less than current market values... As it related to the IRS.

Now they are back at looking at the payment to a stripper as part of campaign finance issue... Good luck with that... Trump funded his one campaign and used his own money...

IB Joe
AKA Joe Schweier
SysOp of Joe's BBS
-=JoesBBS.com=-

... THE fIRST sTEP iS tO tAKE oFF tHE cAPS lOCK

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Windows/64)
* Origin: JoesBBS.Com, Telnet:23 SSH:22 HTTP:80 (1:342/200)

2. If they wanted to wait to shoot it down over water, then why was
this Chinese Spy Balloon not shot down off the coast of Alaska which is also over water.

Simple reason: they did not know about it then. They only knew about it
once it had entered over populated areas.

Except that contradicts other things the US government said when China
tried to deny it, i.e. that the US had known about it since shortly after it was launched from mainland China, which is how we knew it came from there.

US *citizens* knew about it after it crossed into sparsely populated
Montana and they photographed it. The US Government didn't admit knowledge until it was over populated areas but, by their own admission, they knew
it was lauched from mainland China.

If citizens had not seen it, I am guessing the government would never had
said a word about it and probably wouldn't have gone to the trouble of
shooting it down after the fact.


* SLMR 2.1a * It's a cookbook! It's a cookbook!
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

On 09 Feb 2023, Dale Shipp said the following...

250/1

On 02-08-23 22:04, Gregory Deyss <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about Re: Balloons Aint Common <=-

That video (which I have now watched twice) does not say that it did happen. It says that he (and other cabinet officials) say they never heard about them. OTOH, the Pentagon says that balloons did enter US space during the Trump years. They are the experts.

That is all the proof that anyone should need.

That is proof of nothing WRT my question. Look again at my question above.

1. There was no spy balloon from any country (within the Trump era) that traveled in the U.S. as long or as far as this one did that was from last week.

The Pentagon reports I read about did not say how long or how far the balloons traveled. Nor did they say when they discovered the data that showed that balloons had entered USA territory.

Do you honestly believe the U.S. has no method of detection at the or near
the Aleutian Islands.
It is more likely that this was nothing more then Biden's indecision
because it was not brought down until it reached the coast of South Carolina. Biden Failed to do the right thing at the right time.

I would of blown it to bits at the first detection that it entered U.S.
To send a clear message of Strength, instead of one the shows weakness.

2. If they wanted to wait to shoot it down over water, then why was DS> GD> this Chinese Spy Balloon not shot down off the coast of Alaska which i DS> GD> also over water.

Simple reason: they did not know about it then. They only knew about it once it had entered over populated areas.

You mean when it was noticed by the American People.
As far as three under the Trump Era.
These are baseless claims because the notion was floated... after the fact. Why? It is clear to me what this was because Biden mishandled this Chinese Spy Balloon so badly that someone - anyone had to come out and lie about three non-existant balloon intrusions under the Trump Era.

To attempt to save face, but nothing will dissolve the facts that Biden let a Chinese Spy Balloon Travel for days violating U.S. airspace. Even making ridiculous claims that the U.S. jammed the transmission was it grape or blue raspberry. There were 3 that were noticed all on the same say and the Chinese are claiming that lost control of all 3 one is South America, one in the U.S. and one in India.

.≈______ ┌────┐ ┌───┐ ┌─────────┐ ┌────────┐ ╔═════════╗ ┌───────────────┐
_[]_││──││ │TROY│ │HUB│ │ Fidonet │ │FSX Net│ ║S I N C E║ │Another Message│
{ NET 267 │ │ NY │ │800│ │1:267/150│ │21:1/127│ ║ 1 9 9 5 ║ │ by Gregory │ / 00────00'┘¿└0──0┘¿└0─0┘¿└─00───00─┘¿└─00──00─┘¿╚═00═══00═╝¿└───00──────00──┘

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/64)
* Origin: Capital Station BBS * Telnet://csbbs.dyndns.org * (1:267/150)

On 02-09-23 09:00, Ib Joe <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about Re: Trump has never told <=-

And those lies are only the ones told in public. Does not include
e.g. lies told to IRS, investors and bankers about the value of his properties...

This is not true... Like everyone... Trump
thought his properties wer
valued at one level while others think they are valued at an other
level. Just look at ANY real estate transaction... Seller
thinks their property is awesome and they want top dollar
whereas the buyer doesn't think so and they find some price
that they agree upon...

The problem with your statement is that Trump put a value on a property that was high when applying for a bank loan, and then a low value on the *same* property when reporting to the IRS.

That's not true... I do taxes and have for over 30 years...
If someone wanted to screw the IRS out of money one would
want to inflate the value of the properties with the IRS
because depreciation is a percentage of the value of the
property.... ie the higher the property the bigger the tax
break.

What you say is true when the property is still being owned. In that
Trump may well want to inflate property values above their real value.
Simiarly when listing a property value for applying for a bank loan.
But, when looking at property taxes from the state, etc., he would gain
by deflating the property value.

The real point is that Trump would place different valuations on his
properties dependent on what he was doing.

The NY state attorney investigating this dropped this a
while back, and did so publicly, because THEY found that
Trumps properties assessed less than current market
values... As it related to the IRS.

Now they are back at looking at the payment to a stripper
as part of campaign finance issue... Good luck with
that... Trump funded his one campaign and used his own
money...

Which would not explain why the payment was done from his firm and from
Cohen's personal account.

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)


... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 01:51:43, 10 Feb 2022
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- Maximus/NT 3.01
* Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)

On 02-09-23 16:55, Mike Powell <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about Re: Balloons Aint Common <=-

2. If they wanted to wait to shoot it down over water, then why was this Chinese Spy Balloon not shot down off the coast of Alaska which is also over water.

Simple reason: they did not know about it then. They only knew about it once it had entered over populated areas.

Except that contradicts other things the US government said when China tried to deny it, i.e. that the US had known about it since shortly
after it was launched from mainland China, which is how we knew it came from there.

I had not heard that. Probably that fact was classified until their
hand was forced by citizens noticing it.

US *citizens* knew about it after it crossed into sparsely populated Montana and they photographed it. The US Government didn't admit knowledge until it was over populated areas but, by their own
admission, they knew it was lauched from mainland China.

If citizens had not seen it, I am guessing the government would never
had said a word about it and probably wouldn't have gone to the trouble
of shooting it down after the fact.

Given the veracity of your statement, I think you have the best
explanation yet.

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)


... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 02:01:22, 10 Feb 2022
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- Maximus/NT 3.01
* Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)

On 02-09-23 21:02, Gregory Deyss <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about Re: Balloons Aint Common <=-

I think that Mike's post gives the best explanation of the whole series
of events.

1. These Chinese survey balloons had been going on for some time. The government decided not to do any thing about them -- and classified
their existence. (reason unclear).

2. They probably made a judgement call at some level that they were not
really a threat.

3. Once the public became aware because of a balloon being observed by a civilian, then the government's hand was forced and that they had to
make some public statement, which included waiting until over water and
only then shooting it down.

On the whole, there are parallels to the U2 flights over the Soviet
Union. The Soviets made no public news about them until they had the
ability to shoot a U2 down at their high altitude.

The only difference is that the ability to shoot down one of the balloon flights was already developed.

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)


... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 02:11:21, 10 Feb 2022
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- Maximus/NT 3.01
* Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)

On 10 Feb 2023, Dale Shipp said the following...

On 02-09-23 09:00, Ib Joe <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about Re: Trump has never told <=-

What you say is true when the property is still being owned. In that Trump may well want to inflate property values above their real value. Simiarly when listing a property value for applying for a bank loan.
But, when looking at property taxes from the state, etc., he would gain
by deflating the property value.

Values of Real Estate are subjective... Real Estate is Down 35% in the US... So if Trump valued a property a year ago it would be different today... Property values differ from state to state... Trump's NY properties are sucking more than his Florida properties.

This is simple... Sellers ask a price they think the property's worth... Depending on the market... they may not get that price because the seller thinks it's worth less than that. Each person in that transaction is represented.... If someone pays more for a property than they should have it's on them, and their representative... Banks that give out loans on properties are represented as well.

The problem the NY state attorney had with this case was that there were no victims. When they talked to the banks that gave the loans they all said that the loans were paid on time and even paid off. There was no victim, they had to move on...

The real point is that Trump would place different valuations on his properties dependent on what he was doing.

And to this point... Who cares... Millions upon millions of Real Estate transaction happen where sellers want X and buyers want Y and they come to an agreement of Z.

Caveat Emptor <---

Which would not explain why the payment was done from his firm and from Cohen's personal account.

Can you please site a law that was broken?? Please help me understand. If there was a law that was broken they would have used it a long time ago. NT state, the feds and the IRS have been busting his balls for 7-8 years and have found nothing to hang their hat on yet.

BTW, if you know the law he's broken tell the feds because they've spent all this time looking and apparently they should have just asked you.

IB Joe
AKA Joe Schweier
SysOp of Joe's BBS
-=JoesBBS.com=-

... If you can't make it good, make it LOOK good. -Bill Gates.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Windows/64)
* Origin: JoesBBS.Com, Telnet:23 SSH:22 HTTP:80 (1:342/200)

Hello Dale,

I think that Mike's post gives the best explanation of the whole series
of events.

Mike's post was nothing but propaganda - claiming that Trump knew
nothing about spy balloons (from China or elsewhere) flying over our
airspace, and choosing to do nothing at all about it, keeping it all
quiet so the public would not know anything.

WASHINGTON, Feb 6 (Reuters) - When China's suspected surveillance
balloon first passed into U.S. airspace north of Alaska's Aleutian
Islands on Jan. 28, American officials believed there was a good
chance it would keep traveling on a northern trajectory over sparsely
populated areas.

Tell me, Dale, why President Biden had no problem being open and
honest about spy balloons entering US airspace and what he did about
it. And compare that with Trump's actions (or inactions).

If you are claiming Trump was the most incompetent president we have
ever had, that would be a good sign you have some working brain cells remaining.

Of course, there could be other reasons. Such as Ronald Reagan's
vaunted Star Wars Missile Defense System not being good enough to
stop a single Chinese weather balloon from entering US airspace.

Of believing US military is too incompetent to even look into the sky
to find any weather balloons flying around ...

1. These Chinese survey balloons had been going on for some time.

No shit, Sherlock. How long did it take you to figure that out?

The government decided not to do any thing about them --

Donald Trump (president at the time) chose to do nothing about them.

and classified their existence. (reason unclear).

Donald Trump did not classify anything, as the news media reported
he did nothing at all, pretending they did not even exist. Just swept
it all under the rug, as any other incompetent fool would do.

2. They probably made a judgement call at some level that they were not really a threat.

President Biden authorized the spy balloon to be shot down, and
made sure his orders were to have it done over water so nobody would
get hurt by falling debris.

As noted earlier, the spy balloon was spotted much earlier by US
military than by civilians in Montana.

Unlike the orange clown who chose not to say a word about spy balloons
flying over US airspace during his term in office, President Biden took
action by actually shooting one down - in plain sight of everybody.

The US has satellites and other needs that made the military aware
of where it was and where it was going long before it was observed by
any civilian, including places such as the Aleutian Islands ...

then the government's hand was forced and that they had to make some public
statement,

Trump knew of at least three spy balloons flying over our airspace
and chose to do nothing, and swept it all under the rug so there would
be no news reports of his own incompetence.

which included waiting until over water and only then shooting it down.

President Biden could have chosen to have had the spy balloon shot
down over populated areas (such as Montana or elsewhere) but wisely
chose not do kill innocent civilians. Once the spy balloon got over
water he did not hesitate, having it shot down in - plain sight of
onlookers just off the coast of South Carolina.

The video of this event went viral and the whole world cheered.

On the whole, there are parallels to the U2 flights over the Soviet
Union.

There are no such parallels. The Chinese have been flying spy balloons
around military installations for decades. Ronald Reagan made sure that
could not happen here, with his Star Wars Missile Defense System taking
care of anything bad that might come our way.

The Soviets made no public news about them until they had the
ability to shoot a U2 down at their high altitude.

Donald Trump made no public news about three of them he knew flew
over US airspace, taking care not to do anything to upset the Chinese
leader - or the North Korean leader - or the Russian leader ...

The only difference is that the ability to shoot down one of the balloon flights was already developed.

The US military had the ability to shoot down all three spy balloons
that flew over US airspace during the Trump years. Why didn't Trump
authorize them to be shot down? What was that reason again?

For Life,
Lee

--
Nobody Beats Our Meat

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Dale,

2. If they wanted to wait to shoot it down over water, then why

was

this Chinese Spy Balloon not shot down off the coast of Alaska

which is

also over water.

Simple reason: they did not know about it then. They only knew about

it

once it had entered over populated areas.

Except that contradicts other things the US government said when

China

tried to deny it, i.e. that the US had known about it since shortly
after it was launched from mainland China, which is how we knew it

came

from there.

I had not heard that. Probably that fact was classified until their
hand was forced by citizens noticing it.

If the public is not aware of it, there is no need to classify
anything. Which is why Trump chose to say nothing, and do nothing,
allowing the spy balloons to continue on their way unabated during
his time in office.

US *citizens* knew about it after it crossed into sparsely populated
Montana and they photographed it. The US Government didn't admit
knowledge until it was over populated areas but, by their own
admission, they knew it was lauched from mainland China.

If citizens had not seen it, I am guessing the government would never
had said a word about it and probably wouldn't have gone to the

trouble

of shooting it down after the fact.

Given the veracity of your statement, I think you have the best explanation yet.

The US military is not incompetent. It tracked all spy weather balloons
that entered US airspace during the Trump years. It was Trump who chose
to do nothing, allowing those spy balloons to continue on their way to
do whatever they wanted. It was Trump who kept that information secret,
so the news media would not find out about it. Do keep up.

For Life,
Lee

--
More Doctors Smoke Camels than Any Other Cigarette

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Joe,

Trump funded his one campaign and used his own money...

That last candidate for president who accepted public financing
was true American patriot John McCain - in 2008.

For Life,
Lee

--
Every Bottom Needs A Top

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

The real point is that Trump would place different valuations on his properties dependent on what he was doing.

I suspect that this is how many property owners/investors do business
which, in part, has made the real estate market so volitile.

I am not defending the practice. There are many things that are
technically legal but are ethically questionable.


* SLMR 2.1a * He's dim, Jed.
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

US *citizens* knew about it after it crossed into sparsely populated Montana and they photographed it. The US Government didn't admit knowledge until it was over populated areas but, by their own
admission, they knew it was lauched from mainland China.

If citizens had not seen it, I am guessing the government would never had said a word about it and probably wouldn't have gone to the trouble of shooting it down after the fact.

Given the veracity of your statement, I think you have the best
explanation yet.

Considering the possibility that it happened during a previous
administration and the President was not told then, I half-wonder if the
public detecting it was also the reason the President was told about it
this time.


* SLMR 2.1a * We now return to your previously-scheduled topics.
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

On the whole, there are parallels to the U2 flights over the Soviet
Union. The Soviets made no public news about them until they had the
ability to shoot a U2 down at their high altitude.

They made a big deal about it once they could shoot one down. :) I wonder
if they kept the SR-71 flights under similar cover, since they never were
able to shoot one of those down. I am pretty sure the Soviet military knew about those, and I know the North Koreans did.

The thing with this particular balloon was that it just happened to cross
over Montana (and other places) at a time when the skies were apparently
very clear (based on photos). Despite its high altitude, some people got pretty good photos and video of it.


* SLMR 2.1a * Governments absorb 100x their weight in excess liberties.
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

On 02-10-23 09:02, Ib Joe <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about Re: Trump has never told <=-

Which would not explain why the payment was done from his firm and from Cohen's personal account.

Can you please site a law that was broken?? Please help me
understand. If there was a law that was broken they would
have used it a long time ago. NT state, the feds and the
IRS have been busting his balls for 7-8 years and have
found nothing to hang their hat on yet.

The case being referenced has to do with payments to porn stars he had
affairs with, in order to hush them prior to the 2016 elections. What
has been claimed is that such payments were campaign expenses but had
not been declared as such.

BTW, if you know the law he's broken tell the feds because
they've spent all this time looking and apparently they
should have just asked you.

All I know is what I have read or heard from public sources. The feds
know that and more.

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)


... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 00:21:08, 11 Feb 2022
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- Maximus/NT 3.01
* Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)

On 02-10-23 17:57, Lee Lofaso <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about Balloons Aint Common <=-

The government decided not to do any thing about them --

Donald Trump (president at the time) chose to do nothing about them.

There has been no evidence that he even knew about them.

and classified their existence. (reason unclear).

2. They probably made a judgement call at some level that they were not really a threat.

Unlike the orange clown who chose not to say a word about spy balloons flying over US airspace during his term in office,

You are assuming that Trump was informed about them. That may not be
true.

Trump knew of at least three spy balloons flying over our airspace
and chose to do nothing, and swept it all under the rug so there would
be no news reports of his own incompetence.

You are assuming that Trump was informed about them. That may not be
true.

The US military had the ability to shoot down all three spy balloons
that flew over US airspace during the Trump years. Why didn't Trump authorize them to be shot down? What was that reason again?

You are assuming that Trump was informed about them. That may not be
true.

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)


... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 00:29:02, 11 Feb 2022
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- Maximus/NT 3.01
* Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)

On 02-10-23 16:18, Mike Powell <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about Re: Balloons Aint Common <=-

If citizens had not seen it, I am guessing the government would never had said a word about it and probably wouldn't have gone to the trouble of shooting it down after the fact.

Given the veracity of your statement, I think you have the best
explanation yet.

Considering the possibility that it happened during a previous administration and the President was not told then, I half-wonder if
the public detecting it was also the reason the President was told
about it this time.

I now believe that to be the case.

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)


... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 00:31:52, 11 Feb 2022
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- Maximus/NT 3.01
* Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)

On 02-10-23 16:24, Mike Powell <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about Re: Balloons Aint Common <=-

On the whole, there are parallels to the U2 flights over the Soviet
Union. The Soviets made no public news about them until they had the ability to shoot a U2 down at their high altitude.

They made a big deal about it once they could shoot one down. :) I
wonder if they kept the SR-71 flights under similar cover, since they never were able to shoot one of those down. I am pretty sure the
Soviet military knew about those, and I know the North Koreans did.

The SR-71 could leave its base in central US, do a fly by mission over
Cuba and be halfway home before the Cubans could alert their
anti-aircraft stations. IMO, it is a shame that they decommissioned the
SR-71.

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)


... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 00:35:47, 11 Feb 2022
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- Maximus/NT 3.01
* Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)

They made a big deal about it once they could shoot one down. :) I wonder if they kept the SR-71 flights under similar cover, since they never were able to shoot one of those down. I am pretty sure the
Soviet military knew about those, and I know the North Koreans did.

The SR-71 could leave its base in central US, do a fly by mission over
Cuba and be halfway home before the Cubans could alert their
anti-aircraft stations. IMO, it is a shame that they decommissioned the SR-71.

Indeed it is. They are incredible aircraft. I saw a piece about them on
PBS (or maybe AHC) where they talked about how the North Koreans would try shooting at them but, by the time whatever they fired got to where the plane "was" it was actually long gone.


* SLMR 2.1a * Hell is full. The damned are now in Tech Support.
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

Hello Dale,

Which would not explain why the payment was done from his firm and from
Cohen's personal account.

Can you please site a law that was broken?? Please help me
understand. If there was a law that was broken they would
have used it a long time ago. NT state, the feds and the
IRS have been busting his balls for 7-8 years and have
found nothing to hang their hat on yet.

The case being referenced has to do with payments to porn stars he had affairs with, in order to hush them prior to the 2016 elections. What
has been claimed is that such payments were campaign expenses but had
not been declared as such.

David Duke ran for governor against Edwin Edwards, losing big time.
Four years later, Edwards chose not to run for a second consecutive
term. Mike Foster declared his candidacy, and bought a list of names
from David Duke, paying $15,000. Foster went on to win the election.

Former governor Edwin Edwards was convicted of some chicanery
concerning riverboat gambling, having nothing to do with his days
in office, and sentenced to ten years in the penitentiary.

David Duke was convicted of income tax evasion (a far worse offense
than what Edwards was convicted of) and sentenced to one year in the penitentiary.

But it is okay for Donald Trump to lie about his taxes? Why does
he get an exemption and not David Duke?

Duke failed to pay his taxes on $15,000 which was considered as
being earned income by the IRS. How much of Trump's income did he
declare as earned income? How much of Trump's income does the IRS
consider as his earned income?

Duke was found guilty and sentenced to one year in the pen.
And that was for a measly amount, considering the amount of income
Trump claims he has.

I'll let you do the math. And figure out what his sentence should be.

BTW, if you know the law he's broken tell the feds because
they've spent all this time looking and apparently they
should have just asked you.

All I know is what I have read or heard from public sources.

The courts have ruled in favor of Congress getting hold of Trump's
tax returns (six years of them), which will be made public for all
to see.

The feds know that and more.

I'm sure they do. And they should tell us.
Despite Trump's protestations.

For Life,
Lee

--
Nobody Beats Our Meat

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Dale,

The government decided not to do any thing about them --

Donald Trump (president at the time) chose to do nothing about them.

There has been no evidence that he even knew about them.

The Pentagon says otherwise. So does the news media.

and classified their existence. (reason unclear).

2. They probably made a judgement call at some level that they were not
really a threat.

Unlike the orange clown who chose not to say a word about spy balloons
flying over US airspace during his term in office,

You are assuming that Trump was informed about them.

The president is always informed about matters of national security.
Especially when objects of unknown origin enter US airspace.

That may not be true.

The Pentagon does not lie. Quite unlike the POTUS, who may or may
not be telling the truth. About anything. The same with his National
Security Advisor (John Bolton comes to mind).

Trump knew of at least three spy balloons flying over our airspace
and chose to do nothing, and swept it all under the rug so there would
be no news reports of his own incompetence.

You are assuming that Trump was informed about them.

You are assuming Trump always tells the truth. About everything.
I assume nothing of the sort.

The Pentagon does not withhold information that is vital to the
national security of this country from the President, or to his NSA.

That may not be true.

Are you saying, or suggesting, that the Pentagon is incompetent?
The Joint Chiefs of Staff are not stupid, and know their jobs well.
And every soldier follows orders, knowing what the alternative is.

The fact of the matter is the POTUS was informed of at least
three spy balloons (most likely from China) entering US airspace
and allowed to continue on their way unabated. All thankks to
President Donald Trump choosing not to do a darned thing about
it. Except to sweep the matter under the rug and pretend it
never happened.

The US military had the ability to shoot down all three spy balloons
that flew over US airspace during the Trump years. Why didn't Trump
authorize them to be shot down? What was that reason again?

You are assuming that Trump was informed about them.

There is absolutely no doubt he was informed about them.
As well as all other matters of national security.

What makes you think the Pentagon was any different with the Trump administration than it has been with other administrations, including
the Biden administration?

Either the Pentagon is incompetent, as you are suggesting, or Trump
is/was incompetent. Maybe both, given what you have written.

Of course, it all could have been deliberate, with Trump trying
to become friends with Xi, as he has with his soul mate in North
Korea. Or with Putin, or any of a number of other dictators in
the world.

That may not be true.

Trump lies. A lot. Before, during, and after he was POTUS.

For Life,
Lee

--
If it's not an iPhone, it's not an iPhone

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

On 02-11-23 22:35, Lee Lofaso <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about Trump has never told <=-

David Duke was convicted of income tax evasion (a far worse offense
than what Edwards was convicted of) and sentenced to one year in the penitentiary.

But it is okay for Donald Trump to lie about his taxes? Why does
he get an exemption and not David Duke?

Possibly because of the DOJ ruling not to charge a sitting President.
Trump no longer has that protection, nor is he exempt from state
charges.

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)


... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 23:59:23, 11 Feb 2022
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- Maximus/NT 3.01
* Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)

On 10 Feb 2023, Lee Lofaso said the following...

Trump funded his one campaign and used his own money...

That last candidate for president who accepted public financing
was true American patriot John McCain - in 2008.

McCain was a RINO who belonged to the uni-party. There are people on the left and right who are trying to destroy the country...

BTW, I don't think McCain was self funded...

IB Joe
AKA Joe Schweier
SysOp of Joe's BBS
-=JoesBBS.com=-

... Shortcut: longest distance between two points

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Windows/64)
* Origin: JoesBBS.Com, Telnet:23 SSH:22 HTTP:80 (1:342/200)

On 11 Feb 2023, Dale Shipp said the following...

The case being referenced has to do with payments to porn stars he had affairs with, in order to hush them prior to the 2016 elections. What
has been claimed is that such payments were campaign expenses but had
not been declared as such.

I am aware of the case, and the payment made. They looked into that years ago and could not make anything of it.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/stormy-daniels-must-pay-300k-dona

The porn star ordered to pay trump over $300,000.00 and her lawyer was later thrown in jail for exploiting her, as well as other clients, and embezzling money from her.

Campaign finance rules are in place to stop people who use other peoples money to fund their campaigns... AKA donors... If Trump was trying to HUSH someone it didn't work so well... we're talking about it 6 years later.

Like I've said to you in the past...site the law he broke... I'll forward it off to the DOJ and let them know... It seems to be way to complicated for them.

All I know is what I have read or heard from public sources. The feds know that and more.

If the feds, AKA the Deep State, had the goods they would have charged him by now.

IB Joe
AKA Joe Schweier
SysOp of Joe's BBS
-=JoesBBS.com=-

... Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Windows/64)
* Origin: JoesBBS.Com, Telnet:23 SSH:22 HTTP:80 (1:342/200)

On 11 Feb 2023, Dale Shipp said the following...

Possibly because of the DOJ ruling not to charge a sitting President. Trump no longer has that protection, nor is he exempt from state
charges.

You and lefty friends will never understand. You're going to believe whatever it is that swings left, and before you say that I would do the same w/
anything that swings right, consider this.

Conservatives have the greatest ability and the most potential to be analytical using logic and considering all of the facts, we do not manufacture lies nor do we ignore the serious issues of the day.
Take Immigration for example. The left tells us that all is well.
When it is far from being well.

Source: https://www.politico.com
Title: BIDEN'S BORDER CRISIS IS THE WORST IN AMERICAN HISTORY
Site: https://tinyurl.com/2kwndr73

1. Under Joe Biden, America is facing the worst border crisis in our history. 2. President Biden has undermined America's border security and the integrity of our immigration system at every turn.
3. Biden's border policies are creating a growing national security crisis,
and threatening the safety of Americans across the country.
OVERVIEW: BIDEN'S BORDER CRISIS
A. America is facing a historic crisis at its southern border under President Biden.
Under Biden's immigration policies, illegal border crossings have soared
to all-time highs.
In Fiscal Year 2021 alone, U.S. Customs and Border Protection experienced
1.7 million encounters with aliens at the southern border, the highest number ever recorded in a single year.
That number does not include people who evaded border patrol officers. According to the internal Border Patrol estimates from January through August of 2021, more than 273,000 migrants avoided apprehension and entered our country illegally.
These are new records. Fiscal Year 2022 is already sharply out-pacing
2021's record-breaking numbers.
U.S. Border Patrol Chief Raul Ortiz anticipates in the next few days, the U.S. will hit one million encounters with migrants attempting to illegally cross
our Southern border since October 1.
That's one million encounters in the last six months, out-pacing last year's record-breaking numbers. Last month, CBP encountered nearly 165,000 illegal immigrants at the border.
That was the highest total for February in the Department of Homeland Security's history. For the last 12 months in a row, there have been over 150,000 encounters at the Southern border; eight of which broke records.
-

Take Inflation for another example.
The left tells us that all is well. When it is far from being well.
Have you seen the prices in the supermarket?

Source: https://www.thecentersquare.com
Title: Biden touts falling food prices when they are actually rising
Site: https://tinyurl.com/39d6s5d4

Cereals and bakery products prices saw no change in December but rose 16.1%
in the last year.
Meats, poultry, fish, and eggs rose 1% in December and 7.7% in the last year. Dairy and related products prices declined 0.3% in December but rose 15.3% in the last year.
Fruits and vegetable prices declined 0.6% in December but rose 8.4% in the
last year.
Nonalcoholic beverages and beverage materials prices rose 0.1% in December
and 12.4% in the last year.
BLS "other food at home" category saw a 0.4% increase in December and a
13.9% increase in the last year.
-

These are not fake numbers and they can be confirmed by simply driving down to your local supermarket and taking note of the costs of these everyday needs.

President Biden can barley talk coherently, as seen recently with the
interview with the PBS w/ Judy Woodruff, the man speaks w/ a mumbling raspy voice, which is perceived as indescribably weak. Additionally, he has very much incorrectly stated within this interview that "polls don't matter"
Is this because does not want to consider or take any accountability for what was shown within these poll numbers, they were and continue to be bone-headed decisions. This is what out of touch looks like.

.≈______ ┌────┐ ┌───┐ ┌─────────┐ ┌────────┐ ╔═════════╗ ┌───────────────┐
_[]_││──││ │TROY│ │HUB│ │ Fidonet │ │FSX Net│ ║S I N C E║ │Another Message│
{ NET 267 │ │ NY │ │800│ │1:267/150│ │21:1/127│ ║ 1 9 9 5 ║ │ by Gregory │ / 00────00'┘¿└0──0┘¿└0─0┘¿└─00───00─┘¿└─00──00─┘¿╚═00═══00═╝¿└───00──────00──┘

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/64)
* Origin: Capital Station BBS * Telnet://csbbs.dyndns.org * (1:267/150)

Hello Dale,

David Duke was convicted of income tax evasion (a far worse offense
than what Edwards was convicted of) and sentenced to one year in the
penitentiary.

But it is okay for Donald Trump to lie about his taxes? Why does
he get an exemption and not David Duke?

Possibly because of the DOJ ruling not to charge a sitting President.

There was no DOJ ruling, although there is a written opinion that
a sitting President cannot be charged.

Trump no longer has that protection, nor is he exempt from state
charges.

Both Duke and Edwards were convicted of federal charges
and served their time in prison. And neither was POTUS at
any time. Since Edwards has passed away, President Biden
is unlikely to pardon him. And he also in unlikely to
pardon a white racist and former Ku Klux Klan grand wizard.

After Trump is tried and convicted on state charges, no POTUS
will be able to grant him a pardon, since presidential pardons
are limited to federal crimes.

For Life,
Lee

--
If it's not an iPhone, it's not an iPhone

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Joe,

Trump funded his one campaign and used his own money...

That last candidate for president who accepted public financing
was true American patriot John McCain - in 2008.

McCain was a RINO who belonged to the uni-party.

John McCain was the Republican nominee for President in 2008.
The last presidential candidate of either major party who accepted
public financing.

There are people on the left and right who are trying to destroy the country...

That may be. But it won't be John McCain.

BTW, I don't think McCain was self funded...

Every presidential candidate (Democrat and Republican) since
John McCain in 2008 was self funded -

* Barack Obama (2008, 2012)
* Mitt Romney (2012)
* Donald Trump (2016, 2020)
* Hillary Clinton (2016)
* Joe Biden (2020)

Need more be said?

For Life,
Lee

--
Not my president!

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

On 02-12-23 12:34, Gregory Deyss <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about Re: Trump has never told <=-

Possibly because of the DOJ ruling not to charge a sitting President. Trump no longer has that protection, nor is he exempt from state
charges.

You and lefty friends will never understand. You're going to believe whatever it is that swings left, and before you say that I would do the same w/ anything that swings right, consider this.

I do not see how that statement is in any way related to what you quoted
from me. And I do not believe anything that cannot be verified. I do
not traffic in hyperbole nor conspiracy theories.

Conservatives have the greatest ability and the most
potential to be analytical
using logic and considering all of the facts,

There has been little evidence of that here and elsewhere. In fact, for
many conservatives they only believe what they heard on ultra-right entertainment channels (e.g. Fox news)

we do not manufacture lies nor do
we ignore the serious issues of the day.

You may not, but many of your Republican colleagues certainly do,
including a number currently in the House.

Take Immigration for example. The left tells us that all is well.
When it is far from being well.

I cannot say that all is well. I can say that some people treat it as a
racial issue. I will say that the previous administration implemented
some inhuman polices (e.g. separation of families). I will also say
that I do not know enough facts about most factors to give honest debate
on any side of the situation.

Take Inflation for another example.
The left tells us that all is well. When it is far from being well.
Have you seen the prices in the supermarket?

Yes, and that is only one part of inflation. I have seen gasoline
prices coming down. I don't shop at any supermarket enough to have
reliable data.

Source: https://www.thecentersquare.com
Title: Biden touts falling food prices when they are actually rising Site: https://tinyurl.com/39d6s5d4

Cereals and bakery products prices saw no change in December but rose 16.1% in the last year.
Meats, poultry, fish, and eggs rose 1% in December and 7.7% in the
last year. Dairy and related products prices declined 0.3% in December
but rose 15.3% in the last year.
Fruits and vegetable prices declined 0.6% in December but rose 8.4% in
the last year.
Nonalcoholic beverages and beverage materials prices rose 0.1% in
December and 12.4% in the last year.
BLS "other food at home" category saw a 0.4% increase in December and
a 13.9% increase in the last year.

In other words, if your figures are reliable, inflation on grocery
prices is coming down.

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)


... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 00:34:53, 13 Feb 2022
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- Maximus/NT 3.01
* Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)

Take Immigration for example.

Why? How does that affect you? Do you really think that is the most important thing on the minds of the US people. Compared to inflation, debt raising, unemployment, housing, drug and oil price gauging or social welfare?

Or do you have an example of how the GOP has promised you, they would make it better? What part of *their* platforms do you like?



--
United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

On 13 Feb 2023, Dale Shipp said the following...

There has been little evidence of that here and elsewhere. In fact, for many conservatives they only believe what they heard on ultra-right entertainment channels (e.g. Fox news)

Fox has been nearly perfect specially the Sean Hannity has broken through the lies many many times. Newsmax has been another one that has been great.
In addition (while working) I listen to the following on the radio
The Glen Beck Program + Clay & Buck. (took over for Rush) Not to mention the pre-recorded podcasts of Rush Limbaugh and his wisdom is timeless.

Yes, and that is only one part of inflation. I have seen gasoline
prices coming down. I don't shop at any supermarket enough to have reliable data.

Gasoline is still higher, then what it was pre-Biden.

Surely you eat don't you, so where do you go for groceries.
It almost sounds like you want to pretend that these high food prices aren't happening. Sooner or later you will see w/ shock the costs of eggs and bacon if you eat the stuff, I try not to and it does not have a thing to do with the price but choice.

Source: https://www.thecentersquare.com
Title: Biden touts falling food prices when they are actually rising Site: https://tinyurl.com/39d6s5d4

Cereals and bakery products prices saw no change in December but rose 16.1% in the last year.

Rose 16.1%

Meats, poultry, fish, and eggs rose 1% in December and 7.7% in the last year. Dairy and related products prices declined 0.3% in Decembe but rose 15.3% in the last year.

Rose 15.3%

Fruits and vegetable prices declined 0.6% in December but rose 8.4% i the last year.

Rose 8.4%

Nonalcoholic beverages and beverage materials prices rose 0.1% in December and 12.4% in the last year.
BLS "other food at home" category saw a 0.4% increase in December and a 13.9% increase in the last year.

Rose 13.9%

In other words, if your figures are reliable, inflation on grocery
prices is coming down.

Sadly no look at the last percentage at the end of each what I have supplied they are not only up but way up.
Yes the figures are TRUE and RELIABLE I have supplied the source of this information but all that I would suggest is that you pop into your local Supermarket, you don't have to buy anything but it will provide you the confirmation that I am 100% correct.

.≈______ ┌────┐ ┌───┐ ┌─────────┐ ┌────────┐ ╔═════════╗ ┌───────────────┐
_[]_││──││ │TROY│ │HUB│ │ Fidonet │ │FSX Net│ ║S I N C E║ │Another Message│
{ NET 267 │ │ NY │ │800│ │1:267/150│ │21:1/127│ ║ 1 9 9 5 ║ │ by Gregory │ / 00────00'┘¿└0──0┘¿└0─0┘¿└─00───00─┘¿└─00──00─┘¿╚═00═══00═╝¿└───00──────00──┘

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/64)
* Origin: Capital Station BBS * Telnet://csbbs.dyndns.org * (1:267/150)

On 13 Feb 2023, Lee Lofaso said the following...

John McCain was the Republican nominee for President in 2008.
The last presidential candidate of either major party who accepted
public financing.

Then I have miss explained myself... When I said public financing I meant public in the sense that people donate to the election. When people donate money to that cause there are lays that regulate how you spend that money... All this falls under the campaign finance laws.

As this may have related to Trump.... Trump's 2016 campaign was mostly self-funded, he asked the public not to give him money... He had a side chick named Stormy Daniels...whom he paid her ~$180K to shut her mouth... She chose not to and was used by Trump's political rivals... and was discarded like trash when it didn't work. Because Stormy broke the original deal that got her the $180K she owes Trump $300K in damages.

Now Stormy is giving BJ's in back allies just to get something warm in her stomach.... Democrats use and discard people at will to get whatever power is needed to advance their agenda

Every presidential candidate (Democrat and Republican) since
John McCain in 2008 was self funded -

* Barack Obama (2008, 2012)
* Mitt Romney (2012)
* Donald Trump (2016, 2020)
* Hillary Clinton (2016)
* Joe Biden (2020)

All the people mentioned above did not self fund, all were funded by donations. Barry Obama was only worth a couple 100,000 when he ran back in 2007/8

Barack Obama net worth 2004 $300,002
Barack Obama net worth 2005 $1,800,004
Barack Obama net worth 2006 $799,006
Barack Obama net worth 2007 $4,689,008
Barack Obama net worth 2008 $3,665,505

Barry didn't have enough personal money to self fund so he took public donations. To my knowledge Trump, in 2016, was the only self-funded presidential campaign in my lifetime anyway... John Kerry lent his campaign $6,000,000 to start it and paid himself back once people had donated enough money for him to do so.

IB Joe
AKA Joe Schweier
SysOp of Joe's BBS
-=JoesBBS.com=-

... Youth is glorious, but it isn't a career

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Windows/64)
* Origin: JoesBBS.Com, Telnet:23 SSH:22 HTTP:80 (1:342/200)

On 13 Feb 2023, Björn Felten said the following...

Take Immigration for example.

Why? How does that affect you? Do you really think that is the most important thing on the minds of the US people. Compared to inflation,
debt raising, unemployment, housing, drug and oil price gauging or
social welfare?

NYC does not want them, now they are busing these people to Upstate NY. Immigration has direct consequence to the downtrodden experiences of un-employment, lack of housing and social welfare.
Why is this our problem to clothe, feed and to educate.
Basically to wipe the backsides of these people, when they are here illegally.

I am not a republican, and I'm sure as he11 ain't no stinking democrat either.

I have my own ideas what should be done, but Biden is too weak and feckless to do what is necessary, the democratic party can not rely on all African-Americans (only 13% of the population) to vote Democrat so they need this other cast of undesirables to do their bidding to win elections.
If they were all future republicans you would see the Democrats finish the wall, within a week.

.≈______ ┌────┐ ┌───┐ ┌─────────┐ ┌────────┐ ╔═════════╗ ┌───────────────┐
_[]_││──││ │TROY│ │HUB│ │ Fidonet │ │FSX Net│ ║S I N C E║ │Another Message│
{ NET 267 │ │ NY │ │800│ │1:267/150│ │21:1/127│ ║ 1 9 9 5 ║ │ by Gregory │ / 00────00'┘¿└0──0┘¿└0─0┘¿└─00───00─┘¿└─00──00─┘¿╚═00═══00═╝¿└───00──────00──┘

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/64)
* Origin: Capital Station BBS * Telnet://csbbs.dyndns.org * (1:267/150)

Hello Joe,

John McCain was the Republican nominee for President in 2008.
The last presidential candidate of either major party who accepted
public financing.

Then I have miss explained myself... When I said public financing I meant public in the sense that people donate to the election.

The nominees of each major party make the choice whether to accept
or reject public financing of their campaigns. The last nominee of a presidential election to have done so was John McCainn in 2008.

That is not the same thing as rejecting public donations, which
every presidential candidate has done since George Washington left
office.

When people donate money to that cause there are lays that regulate how you
spend that money...

Public financing and public donations are two different things.
Accepting public financing severely limits the public donations
amount a candidate can receive, and how those funds are spent.

All this falls under the campaign finance laws.

If a presidential candidate accepts public financing, he/she is
limited as to how much he/she can spend, and in what way. There are
no such rules in place if a presidential candidate rejects public
financing.

As this may have related to Trump....

It is related to every presidential candidate who rejected public
financing, not as per your claim of it being limited to Trump.

Trump's 2016 campaign was mostly self-funded, he asked the public not to give him money...

Trump's campaign was not entirely self-funded, as he did accept
others to donate to his campaign - including the public. News sources
show his portion as being only about 72% - a far cry from being total.
And that was just for his 2016 campaign.

He had a side chick named Stormy Daniels...whom he paid her ~$180K to shut her mouth...

So he liked chasing skirts. Probably still does. As do many other
politicians. Such as Gary Hart. And Bill Clinton. And George Santos.
And so many others.

She chose not to and was used by Trump's political rivals...

Andy Warhol said everybody deserves his/her own 15 minutes of fame.

and was discarded like trash when it didn't work.

Everybody knows her name, proving she got what she wanted. Cheers!

Because Stormy broke the original deal that got her the $180K she owes Trump
$300K in damages.

I don't think she is ponying up anything. Although her lawyer might
have to pony up a lot more than a mere handful of cash ...

Now Stormy is giving BJ's in back allies just to get something warm in her stomach.... Democrats use and discard people at will to get whatever power
is needed to advance their agenda

Nah. Stormy is her own gal, and knows what she is doing. Learned from
the best, and now is fully in charge. Left her laptop with her lawyer,
making Republicans think it belonged to some guy named Hunter ...

Every presidential candidate (Democrat and Republican) since
John McCain in 2008 was self funded -

* Barack Obama (2008, 2012)
* Mitt Romney (2012)
* Donald Trump (2016, 2020)
* Hillary Clinton (2016)
* Joe Biden (2020)

All the people mentioned above did not self fund, all were funded by donations.

Self funded = donations.

Barry Obama was only worth a couple 100,000 when he ran back in 2007/8

One more time -

The last presidential candidate who accepted public financing was
John McCain in 2008. Really not a difficult concept to understand.

Barack Obama net worth 2004 $300,002
Barack Obama net worth 2005 $1,800,004
Barack Obama net worth 2006 $799,006
Barack Obama net worth 2007 $4,689,008
Barack Obama net worth 2008 $3,665,505

Barry didn't have enough personal money to self fund so he took public donations.

Obama made the choice to reject public financing. The same as Trump,
and all other presidential candidates since John McCain.

To my knowledge Trump, in 2016, was the only self-funded presidential campaign in my lifetime anyway...

In 2008, Barack Obama became the first presidential candidate
of either major party to decline public financing for the general
election campaign since the program was established. Isn't that
amazing? He did it eight years before Donald Trump even thought
about doing it himself. What a guy.

In 2012, another rich guy (Mitt Romney) thought he would do the
same, spending his own money rather than take all that free money
the government made available. And we all know what happened next.

In 2016, both Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders accepted public
financing for their campaigns during the primaries, with Clinton
coming out on top. But in the general election, Clinton ditched
public financing in favor of begging others to fund her campaign.
And we all know what happened next.

So. You know for a fact I never lie.

THE LAST PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE WHO ACCEPTED PUBLIC FINANCING WAS
JOHN MCCAIN IN 2008. NOBODY ELSE SINCE THEN HAS DONE SO.

Go ahead. Check it out yourself - Barack Obama (2008 and 2012),
Mitt Romney (2012), Hillary Clinton (2016), Donald Trump (2016 and
2020), and Joe Biden (2020).

John Kerry lent his campaign $6,000,000 to start it and paid himself back once people had donated enough money for him to do so.

John Kerry and GWB both accepted public financing for their campaigns.

Jimmy Carter and Gerald Ford both accepted public financing.
As did every major presidential candidate up until John McCain.
I never bothered checking farther back in time, figuring most
all other candidates are dead and gone.

To repeat, as Trump does so often -

In 2008, Barack Obama became the first presidential candidate
of either major party to decline public financing for the general
election campaign since the program was established. Ever since
then, every presidential candidate of both parties has done the
same - including your once and future king.

So please. Do not tell me Donald Trump has done anything "special".

For Life,
Lee

--
Hands too small! Can't build a wall!

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

On 02-13-23 07:01, Gregory Deyss <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about Re: Trump has never told <=-

Yes, and that is only one part of inflation. I have seen gasoline
prices coming down. I don't shop at any supermarket enough to have reliable data.

Gasoline is still higher, then what it was pre-Biden.

True. But much lower than it was. I paid $3.15/gal. today versus more
than $4.00 a month or two ago.

Surely you eat don't you, so where do you go for groceries.

Yes I eat. Mostly at the restaurants in the community where I live.
Meals are included in the monthly fees.

It almost sounds like you want to pretend that these high food prices aren't happening.

I don't pretend any such thing. My statement was that I do not shop
enough to have reliable personal data.

Cereals and bakery products prices saw no change
in December but rose
16.1% in the last year.

Rose 16.1%

Rose earlier but recent month has no change.

Meats, poultry, fish, and eggs rose 1% in December and 7.7% in the
last year. Dairy and related products prices
declined 0.3% in Decembe
but rose 15.3% in the last year.

Rose 15.3%

Rose earlier but recent month has no change.

Fruits and vegetable prices declined 0.6% in
December but rose 8.4% i
the last year.

Rose 8.4%

Rose earlier but recent month has no change.

Nonalcoholic beverages and beverage materials prices rose 0.1% in
December and 12.4% in the last year.
BLS "other food at home" category saw a 0.4%
increase in December and
a 13.9% increase in the last year.

Rose 13.9%

Rose earlier but recent month has no change.

In other words, if your figures are reliable, inflation on grocery
prices is coming down.

Why is it that you quote a positive move on inflation coming down, but
focus on how bad it used to be?

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)


... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 01:01:07, 14 Feb 2022
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- Maximus/NT 3.01
* Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)

On 14 Feb 2023, Dale Shipp said the following...

It almost sounds like you want to pretend that these high food prices aren't happening.

I don't pretend any such thing. My statement was that I do not shop enough to have reliable personal data.

Cereals and bakery products prices saw no change
in December but rose
16.1% in the last year.

Rose 16.1%

Rose earlier but recent month has no change.

Nice try they are even higher right now since December of 2022
Just look for yourself, you will find out.
You want to twist this or pretend this is not happening, but it is.

Meats, poultry, fish, and eggs rose 1% in December and 7.7% in the last year. Dairy and related products prices
declined 0.3% in Decembe
but rose 15.3% in the last year.

Rose 15.3%

Rose earlier but recent month has no change.

Nice try they are even higher right now since December of 2022
Just look for yourself, you will find out.
You want to twist this or pretend this is not happening, but it is.

Fruits and vegetable prices declined 0.6% in
December but rose 8.4% i
the last year.

Rose 8.4%

Rose earlier but recent month has no change.

Nice try they are even higher right now since December of 2022
Just look for yourself, you will find out.
You want to twist this or pretend this is not happening, but it is.

Nonalcoholic beverages and beverage materials prices rose 0.1% in December and 12.4% in the last year.
BLS "other food at home" category saw a 0.4%
increase in December and
a 13.9% increase in the last year.

Rose 13.9%

Rose earlier but recent month has no change.

Nice try they are even higher right now since December of 2022
Just look for yourself, you will find out.
You want to twist this or pretend this is not happening, but it is.

In other words, if your figures are reliable, inflation on grocery prices is coming down.

No they are not coming down, at all.
You are either out of touch, or your meals are supplied for you. Like you said ie: restaurants or via the community.

Why is it that you quote a positive move on inflation coming down, but focus on how bad it used to be?

I was not quoting anything positive with inflation coming because it is not, that is a fantasy. To suggest that it is disingenuous or out of touch.

.≈______ ┌────┐ ┌───┐ ┌─────────┐ ┌────────┐ ╔═════════╗ ┌───────────────┐
_[]_││──││ │TROY│ │HUB│ │ Fidonet │ │FSX Net│ ║S I N C E║ │Another Message│
{ NET 267 │ │ NY │ │800│ │1:267/150│ │21:1/127│ ║ 1 9 9 5 ║ │ by Gregory │ / 00────00'┘¿└0──0┘¿└0─0┘¿└─00───00─┘¿└─00──00─┘¿╚═00═══00═╝¿└───00──────00──┘

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/64)
* Origin: Capital Station BBS * Telnet://csbbs.dyndns.org * (1:267/150)

Why is it that you quote a positive move on inflation coming down, but
focus on how bad it used to be?

I think it is the difference between the percentage growth, or decrease, in inflation vs. the price of things.

You can say that inflation is slowing, which means the price is still going
up but not as fast, or decreasing, which means it is no longer going up BUT also means that prices are not necessarily back down to where they were
when the inflation period started.

That is what gets a lot of people... they don't care that it has gone down
some when they are still paying a whole lot more for things vs. before the inflation started.

There was a report on the 4pm local news just this afternoon about
inflation. I jotted a few things down.

-- For January, 2023, inflation has "slowed" but is still going up.

-- For the whole year of 2022, food prices went up more than anything.

-- For January, 2023, the price of used cars, medical care, and air travel actually went down, so inflation on these three things was negative for
January but, for other things, it is still going up (just more slowly).

-- The economist they interviewed stated that, while it has slowed, none of this slowing has anything to do with government attempts to slow it down.
He said that the results of those attempts have yet to show anything, good
or bad.


* SLMR 2.1a * A rose is not a rose when it's a brick.
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

Hello Greg,

It almost sounds like you want to pretend that these high food

prices

aren't happening.

I don't pretend any such thing. My statement was that I do not shop
enough to have reliable personal data.

Cereals and bakery products prices saw no change
in December but rose
16.1% in the last year.

Rose 16.1%

Rose earlier but recent month has no change.

Nice try they are even higher right now since December of 2022
Just look for yourself, you will find out.
You want to twist this or pretend this is not happening, but it is.

Wages never keep up with inflation. As such, the solution is simple.
Raise wages. And keep raising wages. Every time something goes up.
raise them wages. At some point, that inflation is going to get tired
and give it up. When that happens, wages will finally catch up. And
even do like the turtle - surge ahead and win the race.

Meats, poultry, fish, and eggs rose 1% in December and 7.7% in

the

last year. Dairy and related products prices
declined 0.3% in Decembe
but rose 15.3% in the last year.

Rose 15.3%

Rose earlier but recent month has no change.

Nice try they are even higher right now since December of 2022
Just look for yourself, you will find out.
You want to twist this or pretend this is not happening, but it is.

The state of Louisiana, and four other states, have no minimum wage.
As such, them wages will never catch up, not even having a chance.

Fruits and vegetable prices declined 0.6% in
December but rose 8.4% i
the last year.

Rose 8.4%

Rose earlier but recent month has no change.

Nice try they are even higher right now since December of 2022
Just look for yourself, you will find out.
You want to twist this or pretend this is not happening, but it is.

It has been 13 years since the federally mandated wage was raised
to $7.25 - far what anybody would consider being a living wage. Even
Bernie Sanders' suggestion of raising it to $15 an hour is far short
of the mark, as several states have raised their own minimum wage
above that.

Nonalcoholic beverages and beverage materials prices rose 0.1%

in

December and 12.4% in the last year.
BLS "other food at home" category saw a 0.4%
increase in December and
a 13.9% increase in the last year.

Rose 13.9%

Rose earlier but recent month has no change.

Nice try they are even higher right now since December of 2022
Just look for yourself, you will find out.
You want to twist this or pretend this is not happening, but it is.

Yes, something really does need to be done about those absymally
small wages being paid to working people. Members of Congress should
be ashamed of themselves, as well as state legislators, for their own
failure to act in that regard.

In other words, if your figures are reliable, inflation on

grocery

prices is coming down.

No they are not coming down, at all.

The problem is wages are not going up. Not nearly fast enough to
catch up, much less surpass, what is needed.

You are either out of touch, or your meals are supplied for you. Like you said ie: restaurants or via the community.

There are soup kitchens everywhere. But not nearly enough to feed
the community that is starving. Raise wages to a living wage and those
faces will be able to feed themselves.

Why is it that you quote a positive move on inflation coming down,

but

focus on how bad it used to be?

I was not quoting anything positive with inflation coming because it is not,
that is a fantasy. To suggest that it is disingenuous or out of touch.

Deflation is far worse than inflation. But folks still need to have
a living wage in both scenarios.

For Life,
Lee

--
Every bite is a different temperature

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

On 02-14-23 07:05, Gregory Deyss <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about Re: Trump has never told <=-

Why is it that you quote a positive move on inflation coming down, but focus on how bad it used to be?

I was not quoting anything positive with inflation coming because it
is not, that is a fantasy. To suggest that it is disingenuous or out of touch.

If you carefully read what you posted, you will see that it was you that
said that inflation was not as much as it had been. To suggest
otherwise is to hide behind your perception that inflation is still on
the rise and to not accept the data that you have provided.

I did not suggest anything about inflation other than to let you know
the meaning of what you had posted.

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)


... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 00:40:26, 15 Feb 2022
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- Maximus/NT 3.01
* Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)

On 02-14-23 17:19, Mike Powell <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about Inflation (was: Trump has <=-

Why is it that you quote a positive move on inflation coming down, but
focus on how bad it used to be?

I think it is the difference between the percentage growth, or
decrease, in inflation vs. the price of things.

You can say that inflation is slowing, which means the price is still going up but not as fast, or decreasing, which means it is no longer
going up BUT also means that prices are not necessarily back down to
where they were when the inflation period started.

By George, I think you've got it. As I said to Gregory, I was making no independent statement about inflation other than to point out the
meaning of what he quoted.

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)


... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 00:45:31, 15 Feb 2022
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- Maximus/NT 3.01
* Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)

Mike Powell wrote to DALE SHIPP <=-

-- The economist they interviewed stated that, while it has slowed,
none of this slowing has anything to do with government attempts to
slow it down. He said that the results of those attempts have yet to
show anything, good or bad.

The Ignorant Elitists seem to think that people are complete morons. So
if food goes up in price, for example, they seem to think that people will
buy just as much food and other products.

Economics 101 shows that when prices go up, people buy less.

Getting more complicated, in a market where necessities go up for a while, people put off buying large, long term purchases (like cars and houses). But like I said, the Ignorant Elitists can't understand this simple idea -
or they just like to believe that people are no different than sheep.


... You have mistaken me for someone who gives a damn
___ MultiMail/Linux v0.52

--- Mystic BBS/QWK v1.12 A47 2021/12/25 (Windows/32)
* Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi (1:120/616)

Hello Ron,

-- The economist they interviewed stated that, while it has slowed,
none of this slowing has anything to do with government attempts to
slow it down. He said that the results of those attempts have yet to
show anything, good or bad.

The Ignorant Elitists seem to think that people are complete morons. So if food goes up in price, for example, they seem to think that people will buy just as much food and other products.

People buy as much food as they can, as everybody has to eat.

Economics 101 shows that when prices go up, people buy less.

Life 101 shows that when people do not have enough to eat they die.

Getting more complicated, in a market where necessities go up for a while, people put off buying large, long term purchases (like cars and houses). But
like I said, the Ignorant Elitists can't understand this simple idea -
or they just like to believe that people are no different than sheep.

The economy is for the person, not the other way around.
Nothing complicated or too difficult to understand about that.

For Life,
Lee

--
It's not for women.

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

I think it is the difference between the percentage growth, or
decrease, in inflation vs. the price of things.

You can say that inflation is slowing, which means the price is still going up but not as fast, or decreasing, which means it is no longer going up BUT also means that prices are not necessarily back down to where they were when the inflation period started.

By George, I think you've got it. As I said to Gregory, I was making no independent statement about inflation other than to point out the
meaning of what he quoted.

I have a BSBA so I should hope I understand it, even when it is difficult
to convince my wallet of such. :)


* SLMR 2.1a * Home Safety Tip #1. Don't iron whilst naked.
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

On 02-15-23 16:42, Mike Powell <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about Re: Inflation (was: Trum <=-

By George, I think you've got it. As I said to Gregory, I was making no independent statement about inflation other than to point out the
meaning of what he quoted.

I have a BSBA so I should hope I understand it, even when it is
difficult to convince my wallet of such. :)

BS = Bachelor of Science, BA = Bachelor of Arts -- but I've not seen
them together like that. Double major?

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)



... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 01:12:48, 16 Feb 2022
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- Maximus/NT 3.01
* Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)

On 02-15-23 22:05, Lee Lofaso <=-
spoke to Ron L. about Inflation (was: Trump has <=-

think that people will
buy just as much food and other products.

People buy as much food as they can, as everybody has to eat.

When prices go up, people shift their buying. For example, more pasta
and less steak.

Economics 101 shows that when prices go up, people buy less.

Mostly true -- if they have a choice. When the price of utilities goes
up, there is not much they can do. When they have to commute 20 miles a
day, they still have to buy the same amount of gas -- and thus have less
money for other things.

Getting more complicated, in a market where
necessities go up for a while,
people put off buying large, long term purchases (like cars and houses).

True.

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)


... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 01:20:27, 16 Feb 2022
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- Maximus/NT 3.01
* Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)

I was not quoting anything positive with inflation coming because it is not, that is a fantasy. To suggest that it is disingenuous or out touch.

If you carefully read what you posted, you will see that it was you that said that inflation was not as much as it had been. To suggest
otherwise is to hide behind your perception that inflation is still on
the rise and to not accept the data that you have provided.

If I read carefully? No incorrect, as an individual who looks at things as face-value specially when I go to the supermarket there is NO positivity with the high cost of groceries, specially true w/ eggs. I eat out at restaurants very rarely, and never at a community center with provided meals.
What you are doing, as I see it, your trying to twist or taking out of context what I have said.

The real truth is you only read partially what I said but did not acknowledge w/ a deliberate intention, so it would seem.
The final and overall analysis is that there are alarming skyrocketing percentages of several categories. I never meant that things were improving with the cost of groceries or that they were in any way getting better.
You yourself would know this to be true, if you went to the supermarket like the rest of us.

.≈______ ┌────┐ ┌───┐ ┌─────────┐ ┌────────┐ ╔═════════╗ ┌───────────────┐
_[]_││──││ │TROY│ │HUB│ │ Fidonet │ │FSX Net│ ║S I N C E║ │Another Message│
{ NET 267 │ │ NY │ │800│ │1:267/150│ │21:1/127│ ║ 1 9 9 5 ║ │ by Gregory │ / 00────00'┘¿└0──0┘¿└0─0┘¿└─00───00─┘¿└─00──00─┘¿╚═00═══00═╝¿└───00──────00──┘

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/64)
* Origin: Capital Station BBS * Telnet://csbbs.dyndns.org * (1:267/150)

Gregory Deyss wrote to Dale Shipp <=-

with provided meals. What you are doing, as I see it, your trying to
twist or taking out of context what I have said.

That's a standard Ignorant Elitist tactic.

The real truth is you only read partially what I said but did not acknowledge w/ a deliberate intention, so it would seem.

I don't believe that there is a "seem" about it. That's what these people
do. That's why it's a waste of time to discuss anything with them.


... It wasn't my fault your wife wandered into my house!
___ MultiMail/Linux v0.52

--- Mystic BBS/QWK v1.12 A47 2021/12/25 (Windows/32)
* Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi (1:120/616)

Hello Dale,

think that people will
buy just as much food and other products.

People buy as much food as they can, as everybody has to eat.

When prices go up, people shift their buying. For example, more pasta
and less steak.

Most people do not have unlimited income, and can only buy as much
as they are able to with what they have. Food is something that is a
must have item, as everybody has to eat.

Economics 101 shows that when prices go up, people buy less.

Mostly true -- if they have a choice.

Food is not a choice, but a must have item.
So is medicine, and other needs.
Sometimes folks have to sacrifice one need in order to obtain
the other need, even though both are needed for survival.

When the price of utilities goes up, there is not much they can do.

It is a matter of priorities. Food trumps everything. But what happens
when one needs a medicine for survival, and must sacrifice other needs
in order to obtain that particular need? What does one resort to when
out of income to obtain what one needs in order to survive?

It can get very cold in the wintertime in some parts of this country.
Not having enough income to pay for utilities means one has to find a
way to come up with a way to buy it. Drugs and prostitution come to
mind. So who are the real criminals?

When they have to commute 20 miles a day, they still have to buy the same amount of gas -- and thus have less money for other things.

Only for those on fixed income - such as folks on social security,
welfare, homeless, etc. For those with unlimited income the cost of
gas is not a factor.

Getting more complicated, in a market where necessities go up RL>for a

while, people put off buying large, long term purchases (like RL>cars and houses).

True.

Wages never keep up with inflation. And those on fixed incomes are
even worse off. Even those who are working are not able to save any
real income, as most are forced to spend whatever they have on basic
needs for themeselves and their families.

Only those who save money due to having too much money to count are
griping about inflation, as all they want is for their investments to
increase - without spending any of their beloved "savings".

If you want to make money you have to spend money. Preferably other
peoples money. That is the way it works, and always has worked.

Nobody wants to spend their own money, as that is a losers game.

Take it from The Donald, the most famous grifter in the USA.

For Life,
Lee

--
Everybody Loves Our Buns

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

By George, I think you've got it. As I said to Gregory, I was making no independent statement about inflation other than to point out the
meaning of what he quoted.

I have a BSBA so I should hope I understand it, even when it is difficult to convince my wallet of such. :)

BS = Bachelor of Science, BA = Bachelor of Arts -- but I've not seen
them together like that. Double major?

Bachelor of Science in Business Administration. Maybe I am using it
wrong. :)


* SLMR 2.1a * Tagline uncloaking dead ahead Sir...
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

On 02-16-23 16:13, Mike Powell <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about Re: Inflation (was: Trum <=-

I have a BSBA so I should hope I understand it, even when it is difficult to convince my wallet of such. :)

BS = Bachelor of Science, BA = Bachelor of Arts -- but I've not seen
them together like that. Double major?

Bachelor of Science in Business Administration. Maybe I am using it wrong. :)

Probably not -- I just was not used to seeing that combination. You
would know better than myself. I wrongly assumed that the BA was
Batchlor of Arts. The common abreviation for one level higher is MBA
and that is well recognized.

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)


... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 00:16:18, 17 Feb 2022
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- Maximus/NT 3.01
* Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)

Mike Powell wrote to DALE SHIPP <=-

I have a BSBA so I should hope I understand it, even when it is difficult to convince my wallet of such. :)

BS = Bachelor of Science, BA = Bachelor of Arts -- but I've not seen
them together like that. Double major?

Bachelor of Science in Business Administration. Maybe I am using it wrong. :)

I'm always impressed by the ignorance of these supposedly knowledgeable people.
My degree is BSCS, so I've always seen the "4 letter degrees", and I've known many people who are BSBA.

Today, those terms actually mean what we joked about 20 years ago.
BS = Bull S#!t
MS = More S#!t
PH/D = Piled Higher and Deeper


... I've seen condom vending machines, but this one installs.
___ MultiMail/Linux v0.52

--- Mystic BBS/QWK v1.12 A47 2021/12/25 (Windows/32)
* Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi (1:120/616)