August Abolins wrote to All <=-
@MSGID: <6238A623.514.fidointernet@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
Starlink satellites sent into space by Elon Musk's SpaceX are
helping Ukrainian military drones destroy Russian tanks and
army trucks, according to a report.
A Ukrainian air reconnaissance specialist says his military has
been operating drones specially fitted with thermal cameras
that can detect Russian vehicles at night, according to the
Times of London.
The drones are equipped with anti-tank grenades that are
launched at their target.
"If we use a drone with thermal vision at night, the drone must
connect through Starlink to the artillery guy and create target acquisition," the Ukrainian specialist told the Times of London
[Mar 21, 2022]
https://nypost.com/2022/03/21/elon-musks-starlink-satellites- helping-ukraine-drones-destroy-russian-tanks-report/
https://nypost.com/2022/03/21/elon-musks-starlink-satellites-
helping-ukraine-drones-destroy-russian-tanks-report/
That's great, companies are now fighting wars themselves.
This is a worrying development as we have unaccounted for,
undemocratic, rogue entities now shaping politics.
China is taking note of this, and the message here to the
world (and to China) is that you can rely less on the USA,
because no matter what your official political
relationship with the USA is, companies will do their own
thing.
Unless Elon is acting on behalf of the US government, in
which case this couldbe construed as an act of war.
August Abolins wrote to Dennis Katsonis <=-
@MSGID: <623B2E03.516.fidointernet@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
@REPLY: <623AED93.515.fidointernet@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
Hello Dennis Katsonis!
** On Wednesday 23.03.22 - 20:49, you wrote to me:
https://nypost.com/2022/03/21/elon-musks-starlink-satellites-
helping-ukraine-drones-destroy-russian-tanks-report/
That's great, companies are now fighting wars themselves.
This is a worrying development as we have unaccounted for,
undemocratic, rogue entities now shaping politics.
I wouldn't call Musk's involvement rogue.
China is taking note of this, and the message here to the
world (and to China) is that you can rely less on the USA,
because no matter what your official political
relationship with the USA is, companies will do their own
thing.
Perhaps there is such a thing as the right thing. :/
I see it as Musk just taking an initiative on humanitarian
grounds to help restore what an unwelcome aggressor has
destroyed: communications.
A gov't doing it could take too long to get organized.
It would be not different if a bunch of doctors got organized
on their own, call themselves Drs Without Borders, and go help
people with meds and medical expertise.
Perhaps there is such a thing as the right thing. :/
That is not for companies to decide. Matters of international
Russians and Chinese won't see it the way you do, which is important because they both have nukes, and the ability to defeat the US in war should one start. This is a time to tread carefully, to negotiate a peaceful solution, but if some random CEO is going to do something
which starts a conflict, we're stuffed.
Perhaps there is such a thing as the right thing. :/
That is not for companies to decide. Matters of
international politics should be dealt by statesmen who
understand diplomacy, international relations, not CEO's
who think because they know how market a product, or make
some money, that they can solve the worlds political
problems.
This is a recipe for disaster as international relations
is not beholden to these rogue actors.
It would be not different if a bunch of doctors got
organized on their own, call themselves Drs Without
Borders, and go help people with meds and medical
expertise.
Offering medical assistance is completely different to
enabling and supporting military activities.
Russians and Chinese won't see it the way you do, which is
important because they both have nukes, and the ability to
defeat the US in war should one start. This is a time to
tread carefully, to negotiate a peaceful solution, but if
some random CEO is going to do something which starts a
conflict, we're stuffed.
Dmitry Protasoff wrote to Dennis Katsonis <=-
@MSGID: <623C5591.518.fidointernet@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
@REPLY: <623C407D.517.fidointernet@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
Hello, Dennis!
Thursday March 24 2022 20:50, you wrote to August Abolins:
Perhaps there is such a thing as the right thing. :/
That is not for companies to decide. Matters of international
The whole idea that company is not free with it's own decisions is something from Socialism era.
Freedom means freedom for everyone.
Russians and Chinese won't see it the way you do, which is important because they both have nukes, and the ability to defeat the US in war should one start. This is a time to tread carefully, to negotiate a peaceful solution, but if some random CEO is going to do something
which starts a conflict, we're stuffed.
China blocked access to Facebook and Google many years ago, no nukes
were launched because of that.
Russia was doing the same.
Best regards,
dp.
August Abolins wrote to Dennis Katsonis <=-
This is a recipe for disaster as international relations
is not beholden to these rogue actors.
As far as I know, businesses are free to conduct business with
other countries as they see fit. The gov't has tarrifs and
duties that they impose.
It would be not different if a bunch of doctors got
organized on their own, call themselves Drs Without
Borders, and go help people with meds and medical
expertise.
Offering medical assistance is completely different to
enabling and supporting military activities.
Well.. conducting medical services to a soldier is just as much
as "enabling and supporting militarty activities". He gets
treated, and back he goes to fight.
Wrt, to Starlink, the internet service is just a comms system.
What users/customers do with it is THEIR doing. Criminal and
secret things get conducted over the internet all the time.
A lament on privacy from 1972..
https://kolico.ca/mpg/TGC1972-privacy.mp4
Russians and Chinese won't see it the way you do, which is
important because they both have nukes, and the ability to
defeat the US in war should one start. This is a time to
tread carefully, to negotiate a peaceful solution, but if
some random CEO is going to do something which starts a
conflict, we're stuffed.
It is hard to know if just the Russians and Chinese can defeat
the US. No doubt all large countries have plenty of nuclear
power to cause a lot of damage. But a nuclear fight will
affect the agressor and destroy the livelyhood of many
surrounding places.
Perhaps Putin underestimated the resourcefulness of private
citizens of other countries to one-up him on severing typical
comms systems and the internet in the country that he is
blasting. The people who are either trapped in Ukraine or who
choose to stay deserve to be in touch with the outside world
and their loved ones.
The whole idea that company is not free with it's own decisions
is something from Socialism era. Freedom means freedom for
everyone.
Freedom doesn't mean you can do anything you like. Also, freedom is
Companies acting unilaterely are an economic risk, and if China and Russia cannot remove this economic risk by political dialogue with the U.S. State, they may use this as justification for further economic
action against the West, and cutting further ties.
Dmitry Protasoff wrote to Dennis Katsonis <=-
@MSGID: <623DB57D.522.fidointernet@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
@REPLY: <623D9628.520.fidointernet@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).
Hello, Dennis!
Friday March 25 2022 21:05, you wrote to me:
The whole idea that company is not free with it's own decisions
is something from Socialism era. Freedom means freedom for
everyone.
Freedom doesn't mean you can do anything you like. Also, freedom is
Freedom for business means that you can stop serving customer who is
doing some terrible things.
This is the most important thing, otherwise it will become a nightmare
for every company.
Companies acting unilaterely are an economic risk, and if China and Russia cannot remove this economic risk by political dialogue with the U.S. State, they may use this as justification for further economic
action against the West, and cutting further ties.
How can you do business with Russia with Putin cannot be trusted at
all? Tomorrow he'll start a war with NATO, even nuclear.
Is it wourth the risk?
political and social ramifications, externalities. Capitalists are generally very poor when it comes to taking into account externalities.
[...] Are we going to resume business when they withdraw
from Ukraine? When Putin goes? What is the goal? What
does Russia need to do to be accepted again?
This is probably quite off topic for this echo.
Joe Phigan wrote to Dennis Katsonis <=-
@MSGID: <623F5BD1.524.fidointernet@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
@REPLY: <623D962A.521.fidointernet@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
political and social ramifications, externalities. Capitalists are generally very poor when it comes to taking into account externalities.
For capitalism to really work, it needs freedom and peace and for us
all to really just be one world rather than a bunch of squabling countries. If we are divided, capitalism can't do its thing.
August Abolins wrote to Dennis Katsonis <=-
[...] Are we going to resume business when they withdraw
from Ukraine? When Putin goes? What is the goal? What
does Russia need to do to be accepted again?
It truly is a shame that Putin's agenda is to disrupt internet
services and not enhance them.
This is probably quite off topic for this echo.
Thank you for accomodating that.
Segueing back on topic.. as long as the "business" is internet-
related, that's fine. No harm in discussing how countries
posture themselves wrt business ideas that affect internet.
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