the BBS Xchange
the BBS Xchange

  • Windows 8 / 8.1

    From Carnsteve@VERT to All on Thu Dec 5 02:18:17 2013
    Hi ALL,

    Ive been looking for a new laptop for my girlfriend for Christmas however they all seem to have windows 8 on now as you would expect.

    My partner is so used to having a start bar and normal desktop from windows XP and windows 7 but this seems to have been replaced with some rubbish tile system.

    I was told that there is now a windows service pack to bring windows 8 to windows 8.1 and this gives a normal "Windows 7" feel to the system...

    Anyone know if this is the case or can you remove the tile system at boot up?

    Many thanks and regards

    Steve

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ telnet://vert.synchro.net
  • From the doctor@VERT/QBBS to CARNSTEVE on Thu Dec 5 11:51:00 2013
    --- CARNSTEVE wrote --
    Hi ALL,


    I was told that there is now a windows service pack to bring windows 8 t windows 8.1 and this gives a normal "Windows 7" feel to the system..

    I'm sorry to say that it doesn't. All it does is put a start button on the taskbar, which throws you right back on that terrible tile screen.

    Instead, I install classic shell on machines for users that are horrified by the new start menu gubbins.

    http://www.classicshell.net/

    Classic shell is free, and puts a proper start menu back (you have your choice of Windows 7, Vista, or XP). You can also use it to bypass the start screen and dump you straight on the destkop.


    ---
    * TARDIS BBS - Home of QUARKware * telnet bbs.cortex-media.info
  • From Poindexter Fortran@VERT/REALITY to Carnsteve on Thu Dec 5 06:03:32 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Carnsteve to All on Thu Dec 05 2013 02:18 am

    I was told that there is now a windows service pack to bring windows 8 to windows 8.1 and this gives a normal "Windows 7" feel to the system...

    Yes, but it's not as good as simply installing one of the free start menu add-ons. I use one called (I think) Start8, and there's a setting to tell it to boot to the desktop, making the tile system secondary.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Bbikebbs@VERT/OLDTIME to the doctor on Thu Dec 5 09:51:00 2013
    the doctor wrote to CARNSTEVE <=-

    @VIA: VERT/QBBS
    @MSGID: <52A06BAB.14296.dove-hlp@vert.synchro.net>
    --- CARNSTEVE wrote --
    Hi ALL,


    I was told that there is now a windows service pack to bring windows 8 t windows 8.1 and this gives a normal "Windows 7" feel to the system..

    I'm sorry to say that it doesn't. All it does is put a start button on the taskbar, which throws you right back on that terrible tile screen.

    Instead, I install classic shell on machines for users that are
    horrified by the new start menu gubbins.

    http://www.classicshell.net/

    Classic shell is free, and puts a proper start menu back (you have your choice of Windows 7, Vista, or XP). You can also use it to bypass the start screen and dump you straight on the destkop.


    ---
    * TARDIS BBS - Home of QUARKware * telnet bbs.cortex-media.info

    I've installed it on multiple machines and it works well.
    Scott -- The Old Time BBS -- oldtime.synchro.net
    ... DalekDOS v(overflow): (I)Obey (V)ision impaired (E)xterminate
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
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  • From Digital Man@VERT to Carnsteve on Thu Dec 5 22:46:04 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Carnsteve to All on Thu Dec 05 2013 02:18 am

    Hi ALL,

    Ive been looking for a new laptop for my girlfriend for Christmas however they all seem to have windows 8 on now as you would expect.

    I recently purchased a replacement laptop for my dad and since he's not about to learn Windows 8, I had to go with an older Dell model (from costco.com) since the first HP Envy unit I bought couldn't be downgraded to Win7 without sacrificing USB support.

    digital man

    Synchronet "Real Fact" #23:
    1584 Synchronet BBS Software registrations were sold between 1992 and 1996. Norco, CA WX: 46.4°F, 67.0% humidity, 3 mph NNW wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ telnet://vert.synchro.net
  • From Poindexter Fortran@VERT/REALITY to Digital Man on Fri Dec 6 06:55:23 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Digital Man to Carnsteve on Thu Dec 05 2013 10:46 pm

    I recently purchased a replacement laptop for my dad and since he's not about to learn Windows 8, I had to go with an older Dell model (from costco.com) since the first HP Envy unit I bought couldn't be downgraded to Win7 without sacrificing USB support.

    I think that for the time being I'll stick with older Thinkpad T series - they're cheap, and once you throw a new battery in them they're like new.

    Interesting that the recent T series have forgone the BEST LAPTOP KEYBOARD IN THE WORLD and gone to an island/chiclet keyboard like the MacBook Pro. I suppose I should get in line with the rest of the world and use a chiclet keyboard, big multi-touchpad, and give up the trackpoint. Not yet, though.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to the doctor on Fri Dec 6 21:23:44 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: the doctor to CARNSTEVE on Thu Dec 05 2013 11:51:00

    Classic shell is free, and puts a proper start menu back (you have your choice of Windows 7, Vista, or XP). You can also use it to bypass the start screen and dump you straight on the destkop.

    Windows 8.1 has a built-in feature to boot straight to the desktop. It's one of the options available when you right-click the desktop and choose Customize, I believe.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion BBS - digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Poindexter Fortran on Fri Dec 6 21:25:12 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Poindexter Fortran to Carnsteve on Thu Dec 05 2013 06:03:32

    I was told that there is now a windows service pack to bring windows
    8 to windows 8.1 and this gives a normal "Windows 7" feel to the
    system...

    Yes, but it's not as good as simply installing one of the free start
    menu add-ons. I use one called (I think) Start8, and there's a setting
    to tell it to boot to the desktop, making the tile system secondary.

    Users might as well upgrade to Windows 8.1 though. I believe the Windows 8.1 update is free for users of Windows 8, and I've heard Microsoft is going to basically make Windows 8 obsolete relatively soon (basically, the general belief is that Windows 8.1 is what Windows 8 should have been).

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion BBS - digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Digital Man on Fri Dec 6 21:27:36 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Digital Man to Carnsteve on Thu Dec 05 2013 22:46:04

    I recently purchased a replacement laptop for my dad and since he's not about to learn Windows 8, I had to go with an older Dell model (from costco.com) since the first HP Envy unit I bought couldn't be downgraded to Win7 without sacrificing USB support.

    I've noticed that Lenovo still offers Windows 7 on some of its new PCs.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion BBS - digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Poindexter Fortran@VERT/REALITY to Nightfox on Sat Dec 7 06:57:04 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Nightfox to Digital Man on Fri Dec 06 2013 09:27 pm

    I've noticed that Lenovo still offers Windows 7 on some of its new PCs.


    Any business-class PC will have an option for Windows 7 (or at least
    driver support for 7)

    I started playing with a Thinkpad X1 Carbon. Very odd playing with an Ultrabook Thinkpad with a chiclet keyboard and no trackpoint.



    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Mro@VERT/BBSESINF to Poindexter Fortran on Sat Dec 7 12:34:55 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Poindexter Fortran to Nightfox on Sat Dec 07 2013 06:57 am

    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Nightfox to Digital Man on Fri Dec 06 2013 09:27 pm

    I've noticed that Lenovo still offers Windows 7 on some of its new
    PCs.


    Any business-class PC will have an option for Windows 7 (or at least
    driver support for 7)


    my company said hell no to windows 8. took us long enough to switch to win7 anyways. we still run xp on a few test stands.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From the doctor@VERT/QBBS to NIGHTFOX on Wed Dec 11 23:33:00 2013
    --- NIGHTFOX wrote --
    Windows 8.1 has a built-in feature to boot straight to the desktop. It's
    of the options available when you right-click the desktop and choose Custo
    I believe

    Yeah. When they get all their stuff, including Office, for Christ sakes, into Metro, they can phone me (or email me, to be a bit more modern).

    The state Windows 8 was in when it was released was shocking. 8.1 is a reasonable Alpha, but they still haven't even moved all of their own stuff, including all the controls, into their new rubbish paradigm.

    I have to support his stuff. Sigh.


    ---
    * TARDIS BBS - Home of QUARKware * telnet bbs.cortex-media.info
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to the doctor on Wed Dec 11 19:54:44 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: the doctor to NIGHTFOX on Wed Dec 11 2013 23:33:00

    Yeah. When they get all their stuff, including Office, for Christ sakes, into Metro, they can phone me (or email me, to be a bit more modern).

    The state Windows 8 was in when it was released was shocking. 8.1 is a reasonable Alpha, but they still haven't even moved all of their own stuff, including all the controls, into their new rubbish paradigm.

    I have to support his stuff. Sigh.

    I feel your pain. It seems like they're heading that way, but I don't think it makes much sense for everything to move to the new interface. For instance, I think software like Visual Studio makes more sense as a desktop application - At least so that if you have a build that takes a long time, Windows won't kill it when you switch away for more than 10 seconds (or however long it takes for Windows to kill a "modern" UI app). There's a lot of other software that's similar. Plus, it's nice to have windows that overlap, and you can only do that in desktop mode.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion BBS - digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Mro@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Wed Dec 11 23:30:52 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Nightfox to the doctor on Wed Dec 11 2013 07:54 pm

    instance, I think software like Visual Studio makes more sense as a desktop application - At least so that if you have a build that takes a long time, Windows won't kill it when you switch away for more than 10 seconds (or however long it takes for Windows to kill a "modern" UI app). There's a
    lot of other software that's similar. Plus, it's nice to have windows that


    we all know how microsoft works. they make a shitty version of windows and then get it right every 2 or so versions.

    i'm not going to run windows 8. there's just no reason to. i'm happy with windows 7 like i was with windows xp.

    hardware wise in the near future i think we'll all end up using some type of tablet computer that docks into a workstation that provides a display and real keyboard when we're at home.

    who knows, maybe we'll all just have phones that suit this purpose and we'll jump over the whole tablet being the next big thing [and desktop killer]deal alltogether.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From the doctor@VERT/QBBS to NIGHTFOX on Thu Dec 12 15:01:00 2013
    --- NIGHTFOX wrote --

    I feel your pain. It seems like they're heading that way, but I don't thi makes much sense for everything to move to the new interface. For instanc think software like Visual Studio makes more sense as a desktop applicatio
    At least so that if you have a build that takes a long time, Windows won't
    it when you switch away for more than 10 seconds (or however long it takes Windows to kill a "modern" UI app). There's a lot of other software that' similar. Plus, it's nice to have windows that overlap, and you can only d that in desktop mode

    True. I wouldn't want to have to use various things in Metro.

    The people who are in pain are the poor saps at Microsoft who did a brilliant port of Windows to ARM and then got it locked up to buggery.

    You can tell that's what happened because things like the join a domain stuff are in there, but greyed out. I have a BYOD user who bought (over my objections) one of those ARM Surface things, and it's a pain in the arse.

    You can't join it to a domain. I couldn't get whatever it was in Windows 8.1 that was supposed to allow you to "sync" with a domain to work, before I got fed up with trying... and the thing won't work with our creaky old wireless.

    So, he's got a terminal server terminal which won't work on most of the site.

    Oh, and you are stuck with Office 2013, which won't work with our creaky old exchange server, which I'm going to get replaced "any time now" for the last three years.


    ---
    * TARDIS BBS - Home of QUARKware * telnet bbs.cortex-media.info
  • From Poindexter Fortran@VERT/REALITY to the doctor on Thu Dec 12 07:08:11 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: the doctor to NIGHTFOX on Wed Dec 11 2013 11:33 pm

    The state Windows 8 was in when it was released was shocking. 8.1 is a reasonable Alpha, but they still haven't even moved all of their own stuff, including all the controls, into their new rubbish paradigm.

    All of our internal apps barely run under IE 9 and won't run in IE 10. It's Windows 7 for us for a long time.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Poindexter Fortran@VERT/REALITY to Mro on Thu Dec 12 07:10:44 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Mro to Nightfox on Wed Dec 11 2013 11:30 pm

    we all know how microsoft works. they make a shitty version of windows and then get it right every 2 or so versions.

    They keep the revenues coming in from extorting new versions out of OEMs, and get the end users to pay for beta/bug testing and feature adds. Genius!

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Jason@VERT/HDCAFE to Nightfox on Thu Dec 12 11:32:38 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Nightfox to the doctor on Wed Dec 11 2013 07:54 pm

    instance, I think software like Visual Studio makes more sense as a desktop application - At least so that if you have a build that takes a long time,

    Not to mention, when you're debugging line by line in VS, you like to be able to see your app and see VS at the same time.. If they made it a non-desktop app, i think i would just give up on microsoft! :)

    Jason


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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Mro on Thu Dec 12 20:10:07 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Mro to Nightfox on Wed Dec 11 2013 23:30:52

    we all know how microsoft works. they make a shitty version of windows and then get it right every 2 or so versions.

    i'm not going to run windows 8. there's just no reason to. i'm happy with windows 7 like i was with windows xp.

    I agree, and I feel the same way about Windows 7 & 8.x. I don't see a good reason to run Windows 8 on a desktop, and I'm happy with Windows 7.

    hardware wise in the near future i think we'll all end up using some type of tablet computer that docks into a workstation that provides a display and real keyboard when we're at home.

    who knows, maybe we'll all just have phones that suit this purpose and we'll jump over the whole tablet being the next big thing [and desktop killer]deal alltogether.

    Perhaps.. Computing devices may end up like that in general, but I still think there will be a continued demand and purpose for more traditional PCs. It's nice to be able to choose specific parts and assemble a computer to suit your needs, rather than having to deal with a pre-built system where all of the parts have been chosen for you - which may end up working out well for many situations anyway though..

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion BBS - digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to the doctor on Thu Dec 12 20:23:14 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: the doctor to NIGHTFOX on Thu Dec 12 2013 15:01:00

    The people who are in pain are the poor saps at Microsoft who did a brilliant port of Windows to ARM and then got it locked up to buggery.

    You can tell that's what happened because things like the join a domain stuff are in there, but greyed out. I have a BYOD user who bought (over my objections) one of those ARM Surface things, and it's a pain in the arse.

    You can't join it to a domain. I couldn't get whatever it was in Windows 8.1 that was supposed to allow you to "sync" with a domain to work, before I got fed up with trying... and the thing won't work with our creaky old wireless.

    That would be frustrating. I think being inexpensive is probably the only thing the ARM Surface has going for it. Otherwise I don't see much of a point in it. It may end up being mostly confusing to many users, since it looks like Windows but only runs a specialized set of Windows software.

    I have an Intel-based Surface, and I think it's a decent tablet. I like that I can run all my regular Windows software on it, but it's small enough to easily take places. It's definitely not a gaming laptop though, which I had previously been used to using..

    Oh, and you are stuck with Office 2013, which won't work with our creaky old exchange server, which I'm going to get replaced "any time now" for the last three years.

    The place where I work started offering Office 2013 a while ago. I decided to go ahead and upgrade and have had some continual issues with it since I did so. Outlook occasionally freezes up, to the point where Windows adds the "(Not Responding)" text in the titlebar for a moment. I think that happens when it has trouble contacting the Exchange server. Also, OneNote 2013 occasionally freezes up in a similar manner - I can't explain that one. I'm not sure how many other people are having trouble with Office 2013 at work, because I haven't heard any complaints from anyone else..

    Nightfox

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    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion BBS - digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Jason on Thu Dec 12 20:23:52 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Jason to Nightfox on Thu Dec 12 2013 11:32:38

    instance, I think software like Visual Studio makes more sense as a
    desktop application - At least so that if you have a build that takes
    a long time,

    Not to mention, when you're debugging line by line in VS, you like to be able to see your app and see VS at the same time.. If they made it a non-desktop app, i think i would just give up on microsoft! :)

    That's true. :)

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion BBS - digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Mro@VERT/BBSESINF to Poindexter Fortran on Thu Dec 12 22:44:52 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Poindexter Fortran to Mro on Thu Dec 12 2013 07:10 am

    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Mro to Nightfox on Wed Dec 11 2013 11:30 pm

    we all know how microsoft works. they make a shitty version of windows and then get it right every 2 or so versions.

    They keep the revenues coming in from extorting new versions out of OEMs, and get the end users to pay for beta/bug testing and feature adds. Genius!


    yeah, all because it's a 'new version' and the oems should want to have
    the latest and greatest. they're holding them hostage.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Mro@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Thu Dec 12 22:46:09 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Nightfox to Mro on Thu Dec 12 2013 08:10 pm


    Perhaps.. Computing devices may end up like that in general, but I still think there will be a continued demand and purpose for more traditional
    PCs. It's nice to be able to choose specific parts and assemble a computer to suit your needs, rather than having to deal with a pre-built system
    where all of the parts have been chosen for you - which may end up working out well for many situations anyway though..


    i think it's all going to be desktops and phones.
    why would i need a tablet when i can do everything on my phone?
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Poindexter Fortran@VERT/REALITY to Mro on Fri Dec 13 06:15:48 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Mro to Poindexter Fortran on Thu Dec 12 2013 10:44 pm

    yeah, all because it's a 'new version' and the oems should want to have the latest and greatest. they're holding them hostage.

    It's worse - Microsoft has been documented forcing OEMs to buy a copy of Windows for EACH system they sell, regardless of OS, or if they're selling the system without an OS,

    You know, to prevent piracy. Because everyone runs Windows and *needs* a license.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Poindexter Fortran@VERT/REALITY to Mro on Fri Dec 13 06:18:17 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Mro to Nightfox on Thu Dec 12 2013 10:46 pm

    i think it's all going to be desktops and phones.
    why would i need a tablet when i can do everything on my phone?

    Intel had an idea way back when for a tiny computer the size of an external HD. You'd bring it with you and plug it into a keyboard, mouse and video wherever you went.

    Those Ubuntu phones show some promise for this - have some way to dock it or to connect a KVM and you'd have a decent desktop experience.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Mro on Fri Dec 13 08:05:24 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Mro to Nightfox on Thu Dec 12 2013 22:46:09

    still think there will be a continued demand and purpose for more
    traditional PCs. It's nice to be able to choose specific parts and

    i think it's all going to be desktops and phones.
    why would i need a tablet when i can do everything on my phone?

    Perhaps.. Phones are getting bigger, enough to have created a new category, the "phablet" - A cross between a phone and a tablet. I personally don't like phones to be too big though. I have a Samsung Galaxy S3 and I think it's almost too big to hold comfortably.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion BBS - digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Curly@VERT/TSGC to Nightfox on Fri Dec 13 08:41:25 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Nightfox to Mro on Fri Dec 13 2013 08:05 am

    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Mro to Nightfox on Thu Dec 12 2013 22:46:09

    still think there will be a continued demand and purpose for more
    traditional PCs. It's nice to be able to choose specific parts and

    i think it's all going to be desktops and phones.
    why would i need a tablet when i can do everything on my phone?

    Perhaps.. Phones are getting bigger, enough to have created a new category, the "phablet" - A cross between a phone and a tablet. I personally don't li phones to be too big though. I have a Samsung Galaxy S3 and I think it's almost too big to hold comfortably.

    Nightfox


    just what we need, tablets you can make calls on.

    "Practise safe Lunch, Use a Condiment"


    ---
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  • From Jason@VERT/HDCAFE to Nightfox on Fri Dec 13 11:27:07 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Nightfox to Mro on Fri Dec 13 2013 08:05 am

    Perhaps.. Phones are getting bigger, enough to have created a new
    category, the "phablet" - A cross between a phone and a tablet. I personally don't like phones to be too big though. I have a Samsung Galaxy S3 and I think it's almost too big to hold comfortably.


    I have the Galaxy Note 2, now thats a big phone. Even bigger than the S3. My wife has an S3 so comparing the two, i can see why they call the Note 2 a Phablet.

    It's funny though.. When Samsung made the S3, everyone said no one would like it because it's so big. Then it was a hit! So they came out with the Note 2 and
    it was an even bigger hit. :) I like my Note 2, it's just the right size if you
    ask me. It's not me carrying around a big tablet, but it's still small enough for a phone.

    Jason


    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Hard Drive Cafe BBS is BACK! telnet://bbs.hdcbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Curly on Fri Dec 13 12:48:16 2013
    Perhaps.. Phones are getting bigger, enough to have created a new category, the "phablet" - A cross between a phone and a tablet. I personally don't li phones to be too big though. I have a Samsung
    Galaxy S3 and I think it's almost too big to hold comfortably.

    Nightfox


    just what we need, tablets you can make calls on.

    In a way that can already be done, with software like Skype and Google Voice, etc..

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion BBS - digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Jason on Fri Dec 13 12:51:22 2013
    Perhaps.. Phones are getting bigger, enough to have created a new category, the "phablet" - A cross between a phone and a tablet. I personally don't like phones to be too big though. I have a Samsung Galaxy S3 and I think it's almost too big to hold comfortably.


    It's funny though.. When Samsung made the S3, everyone said no one would like it because it's so big. Then it was a hit! So they came out with the Note 2 and it was an even bigger hit. :) I like my Note 2, it's just the right size if you ask me. It's not me carrying around a big tablet, but
    it's still small enough for a phone.

    The Samsung Galaxy phones are definitely good phones, but I do think its large size makes it slightly cumbersome sometimes. Sure it has a nice screen that's easy to read, but that's usually an advantage given to tablets. I don't mind having a smaller screen on my phone because I want to be able to hold it
    easily and have it fit in my pocket easily. Samsung's Galaxy S3 fits in my pocket just fine, but I don't think I'd want it to be any bigger.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion BBS - digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Mro@VERT/BBSESINF to Poindexter Fortran on Fri Dec 13 16:05:16 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Poindexter Fortran to Mro on Fri Dec 13 2013 06:18 am

    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Mro to Nightfox on Thu Dec 12 2013 10:46 pm

    i think it's all going to be desktops and phones.
    why would i need a tablet when i can do everything on my phone?

    Intel had an idea way back when for a tiny computer the size of an external HD. You'd bring it with you and plug it into a keyboard, mouse and video wherever you went.

    Those Ubuntu phones show some promise for this - have some way to dock it
    or to connect a KVM and you'd have a decent desktop experience.

    well, i have the best phone of last year, but there's no official ubuntu phone os build for mine yet. and lots of bugs.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Mro@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Fri Dec 13 16:08:36 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Nightfox to Mro on Fri Dec 13 2013 08:05 am


    Perhaps.. Phones are getting bigger, enough to have created a new
    category, the "phablet" - A cross between a phone and a tablet. I personally don't like phones to be too big though. I have a Samsung Galaxy S3 and I think it's almost too big to hold comfortably.


    yeah i have one too. i dont use it much for calls, though.
    i miss my physical keyboard.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Mro@VERT/BBSESINF to Jason on Fri Dec 13 16:09:52 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Jason to Nightfox on Fri Dec 13 2013 11:27 am


    It's funny though.. When Samsung made the S3, everyone said no one would like it because it's so big. Then it was a hit! So they came out with the Note 2 and it was an even bigger hit. :) I like my Note 2, it's just the right size if you ask me. It's not me carrying around a big tablet, but
    it's still small enough for a phone.


    well my s3 with its otterbox fits into my pocket just fine.
    i did pay like 700 bucks for it, so i'm not going to walk around with it
    in my pocket at work all day, though.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Jason@VERT/HDCAFE to Nightfox on Sat Dec 14 11:55:03 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Nightfox to Jason on Fri Dec 13 2013 12:51 pm

    The Samsung Galaxy phones are definitely good phones, but I do think its large size makes it slightly cumbersome sometimes. Sure it has a nice screen that's easy to read, but that's usually an advantage given to tablets. I don't mind having a smaller screen on my phone because I want
    to be able to hold it easily and have it fit in my pocket easily.
    Samsung's Galaxy S3 fits in my pocket just fine, but I don't think I'd want it to be any bigger.

    When I was looking at new phones, it was either the Note 2 or the iPhone 5. As I was comparing them, the screen size and the real estate was appealing to me, so I purchased the Note 2. If the iPhone would come out with a bigger screen, then I would have probably purchased the iPhone, but they are seriously stuck in their ways...

    Jason


    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Hard Drive Cafe BBS is BACK! telnet://bbs.hdcbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Mro on Sat Dec 14 09:17:32 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Mro to Nightfox on Fri Dec 13 2013 16:08:36

    personally don't like phones to be too big though. I have a Samsung
    Galaxy S3 and I think it's almost too big to hold comfortably.

    yeah i have one too. i dont use it much for calls, though.
    i miss my physical keyboard.

    I also miss having a physical keyboard. The last phone I had (a LG Optimus Slider), I bought because it had a physical keyboard. Unfortunately there are very few cell phones made with physical keyboards anymore.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion BBS - digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From the doctor@VERT/QBBS to POINDEXTER FORTRAN on Sat Dec 14 19:14:00 2013
    --- POINDEXTER FORTRAN wrote --
    All of our internal apps barely run under IE 9 and won't run in IE 10. It' Windows 7 for us for a long time

    It's too hard to asset our "downgrade rights" and downgrade everything to Windoes 7.

    Our web stuff (which is all Javascript.. yuck) works okay in IE10, as long as you set compatability mode. 80% of the users are on Terminal Services anyhow.


    For Windows 8 folks, it's Classic Shell. I was really relieved that this new work laptop that I just got came with Windows 7 Pro on it... It comes with a disk with Windows 8 on it, if you want.

    This is the first time ever I haven't put the newest version of Windows on something.


    ---
    * TARDIS BBS - Home of QUARKware * telnet bbs.cortex-media.info
  • From Mro@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Sat Dec 14 17:51:59 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Nightfox to Mro on Sat Dec 14 2013 09:17 am

    yeah i have one too. i dont use it much for calls, though.
    i miss my physical keyboard.

    I also miss having a physical keyboard. The last phone I had (a LG Optimus Slider), I bought because it had a physical keyboard. Unfortunately there are very few cell phones made with physical keyboards anymore.



    it sucks. before i was typing like 60 wpm on my phone. now it's 10 mistakes a minute.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Poindexter Fortran@VERT/REALITY to Mro on Sun Dec 15 07:17:10 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Mro to Nightfox on Sat Dec 14 2013 05:51 pm

    it sucks. before i was typing like 60 wpm on my phone. now it's 10 mistakes a minute.

    heh. I'm tempted to go back to an OLD blackberry to make my phone more of a work device and less of a distraction. Loved the keyboards on the 8700g, and they're destruction-proof. I think I have a couple in my trash bin at work... :)

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Charon@VERT/THERIVER to Nightfox on Sun Dec 15 10:12:23 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Nightfox to Mro on Sat Dec 14 2013 09:17:32

    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Mro to Nightfox on Fri Dec 13 2013 16:08:36

    personally don't like phones to be too big though. I have a Samsung
    Galaxy S3 and I think it's almost too big to hold comfortably.

    yeah i have one too. i dont use it much for calls, though.
    i miss my physical keyboard.

    I also miss having a physical keyboard. The last phone I had (a LG Optimus Slider), I bought because it had a physical keyboard. Unfortunately there a very few cell phones made with physical keyboards anymore.

    Nightfox

    I was a diehard Blackberry fan, becuase of the physical keyboard. The only thing I did not like is that you had to purchase Blackberry BEZ server to
    relay Exchange emails, and having a small company is definately was not worth the investment. This also caused an issue when customers would reply or try t o recieve an email, relayed with another account. So, I switch everyones phone,
    including the sales department, and it was an
    easy integration with our Exchange Server. So, we are an Iphone company, as
    of now!

    Charon
    riverstyx.darktech.org

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The River Styx - riverstyx.darktech.org
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Charon on Sun Dec 15 13:31:21 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Charon to Nightfox on Sun Dec 15 2013 10:12:23

    I was a diehard Blackberry fan, becuase of the physical keyboard. The only thing I did not like is that you had to purchase Blackberry BEZ server to relay Exchange emails, and having a small company is
    definately was not worth the investment. This also caused an issue when customers would reply or try t o recieve an email, relayed with another account. So, I switch everyones phone, including the sales department,
    and it was an easy integration with our Exchange Server. So, we are an Iphone company, as of now!

    I still think it's funny & ironic that one of Apple's big things is to "think different" and do things differently, yet these days, they've been adding features to their products so that they can be integrated into Microsoft environments. It was definitely a good move on their part. I haven't used OS X very much, but OS X seems to be able to integrate fairly well with Microsoft and *nix environments (*nix especially, since it's based on BSD). Apple seems to be one of the better companies these days about following standards.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion BBS - digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Tiny@VERT/PHARCYDE to Nightfox on Sun Dec 15 11:08:00 2013
    Hello Nightfox!

    14 Dec 13 09:17, you wrote to Mro:

    I also miss having a physical keyboard. The last phone I had (a LG Optimus Slider), I bought because it had a physical keyboard. Unfortunately there are very few cell phones made with physical
    keyboards anymore.

    I'm a crackberry fan so I'm lucky that way. My Z10 (Touch screen)
    died so I picked up a Q5 yesterday. Love it my keyboard's. ;)

    Shawn


    ... How was my day? Oh, the police will fill you in...
    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20130111
    * Origin: Tiny's BBS - tinysbbs.com (723:1/2)
    ■ Synchronet ■ thePharcyde_ telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin)
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Tiny on Mon Dec 16 19:48:42 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Tiny to Nightfox on Sun Dec 15 2013 11:08:00

    I'm a crackberry fan so I'm lucky that way. My Z10 (Touch screen)
    died so I picked up a Q5 yesterday. Love it my keyboard's. ;)

    By "crackberry", are you referring to Blackberry? That's a new one. :P

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion BBS - digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Tiny@VERT/PHARCYDE to Nightfox on Tue Dec 17 09:16:40 2013
    Hello Nightfox!

    16 Dec 13 19:48, you wrote to me:

    By "crackberry", are you referring to Blackberry? That's a new one.
    :P

    Yes I am, love my crackberry. ;)

    Shawn


    ... URA Redneck if your car's rear tires are twice as wide as the front.
    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20130111
    * Origin: Tiny's BBS - tinysbbs.com (723:1/2)
    ■ Synchronet ■ thePharcyde_ telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin)
  • From Poindexter Fortran@VERT/REALITY to Tiny on Tue Dec 17 08:52:33 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Tiny to Nightfox on Tue Dec 17 2013 09:16 am

    Yes I am, love my crackberry. ;)

    I'm tempted to swap my iPhone's SIM card into a Blackberry 8700G for old time's sake. Get back to using my phone for work and email. :)

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Falcon Lord@VERT/LIMITS to Nightfox on Tue Dec 17 20:37:00 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Nightfox to Charon on Sun Dec 15 2013 01:31 pm

    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Charon to Nightfox on Sun Dec 15 2013 10:12:23

    I was a diehard Blackberry fan, becuase of the physical keyboard. The only thing I did not like is that you had to purchase Blackberry BEZ server to relay Exchange emails, and having a small company is definately was not worth the investment. This also caused an issue whe customers would reply or try t o recieve an email, relayed with another account. So, I switch everyones phone, including the sales department, and it was an easy integration with our Exchange Server. So, we are an Iphone company, as of now!

    I still think it's funny & ironic that one of Apple's big things is to "thin different" and do things differently, yet these days, they've been adding features to their products so that they can be integrated into Microsoft environments. It was definitely a good move on their part. I haven't used X very much, but OS X seems to be able to integrate fairly well with Microso and *nix environments (*nix especially, since it's based on BSD). Apple see to be one of the better companies these days about following standards.

    Nightfox

    I agree. Since Apple started using the Intel Processor Chips and able to
    runs virtual machines, such as Windows 7, XP, etc. alot of people are slowly moving to MAC. However, due to the pricing, I will not be one of those
    anytime soon <lol>. But, if MAC wanted to be competitive, drop the pricing down a bit and give the PC market a run for their money.

    Just my humble opinion!

    Charon
    riverstyx.darktech.org

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Outer Limit's (Alpha Site) limits.darktech.org
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Falcon Lord on Tue Dec 17 21:26:58 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Falcon Lord to Nightfox on Tue Dec 17 2013 20:37:00

    I agree. Since Apple started using the Intel Processor Chips and able to runs virtual machines, such as Windows 7, XP, etc. alot of people are slowly moving to MAC. However, due to the pricing, I will not be one of those anytime soon <lol>. But, if MAC wanted to be competitive, drop the pricing down a bit and give the PC market a run for their money.

    I've heard people say that Apple's Mac prices are about on par with similarly-equipped PCs. I'm not sure if that's true, but if so, that means Apple is really only concerned with selling high-end computers. I suppose their iMac is about comparable in price to what I'd probably pay if I bought or built a PC. It would be nice if Apple would make a Mac that's both customizable and reasonably priced.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion BBS - digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Mro@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Wed Dec 18 01:06:46 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Nightfox to Falcon Lord on Tue Dec 17 2013 09:26 pm

    I've heard people say that Apple's Mac prices are about on par with similarly-equipped PCs. I'm not sure if that's true, but if so, that means


    when someone tells you that bunch them in the cock.
    because they are a liar.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Curly@VERT/TSGC to Falcon Lord on Wed Dec 18 01:03:27 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Falcon Lord to Nightfox on Tue Dec 17 2013 08:37 pm

    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Nightfox to Charon on Sun Dec 15 2013 01:31 pm

    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Charon to Nightfox on Sun Dec 15 2013 10:12:23

    I was a diehard Blackberry fan, becuase of the physical keyboard. T only thing I did not like is that you had to purchase Blackberry BEZ server to relay Exchange emails, and having a small company is definately was not worth the investment. This also caused an issue customers would reply or try t o recieve an email, relayed with anot account. So, I switch everyones phone, including the sales departmen and it was an easy integration with our Exchange Server. So, we are Iphone company, as of now!

    I still think it's funny & ironic that one of Apple's big things is to "t different" and do things differently, yet these days, they've been adding features to their products so that they can be integrated into Microsoft environments. It was definitely a good move on their part. I haven't us X very much, but OS X seems to be able to integrate fairly well with Micr and *nix environments (*nix especially, since it's based on BSD). Apple to be one of the better companies these days about following standards.

    Nightfox

    I agree. Since Apple started using the Intel Processor Chips and able to runs virtual machines, such as Windows 7, XP, etc. alot of people are slowly moving to MAC. However, due to the pricing, I will not be one of those anytime soon <lol>. But, if MAC wanted to be competitive, drop the pricing down a bit and give the PC market a run for their money.

    Just my humble opinion!

    Charon
    riverstyx.darktech.org


    a mini is only around 600.00

    "Practise safe Lunch, Use a Condiment"


    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Three Stooges - Las Vegas, Nv - tsgc.synchro.net
  • From Curly@VERT/TSGC to Mro on Wed Dec 18 01:04:25 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Mro to Nightfox on Wed Dec 18 2013 01:06 am

    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Nightfox to Falcon Lord on Tue Dec 17 2013 09:26 pm

    I've heard people say that Apple's Mac prices are about on par with similarly-equipped PCs. I'm not sure if that's true, but if so, that mea


    when someone tells you that bunch them in the cock.
    because they are a liar.

    hey, leave my chicken alone

    "Practise safe Lunch, Use a Condiment"


    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Three Stooges - Las Vegas, Nv - tsgc.synchro.net
  • From Poindexter Fortran@VERT/REALITY to Curly on Wed Dec 18 06:37:48 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Curly to Mro on Wed Dec 18 2013 01:04 am

    when someone tells you that bunch them in the cock.
    because they are a liar.

    hey, leave my chicken alone

    When I started out BBSing, there was none of this cock-bunching talk. We were a civilized band of hooligans.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Android8675@VERT/SHODAN to Nightfox on Wed Dec 18 08:05:58 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Nightfox to Falcon Lord on Tue Dec 17 2013 09:26 pm

    I've heard people say that Apple's Mac prices are about on par with similarly-equipped PCs. I'm not sure if that's true, but if so, that means Apple is really only concerned with selling high-end computers. I suppose their iMac is about comparable in price to what I'd probably pay if I bought or built a PC. It would be nice if Apple would make a Mac that's both customizable and reasonably priced.

    If you build an exact system you might pay 10% more for the apple (imac only, powermac is a different story), but why would you want too? Apple systems are crap. Up front the apple systems seem like a good price, but keep in mind you can't upgrade those systems, hell even PC notebooks let you swap out the battery/hdd when it fails, but Apple needs you to replace your system every 5-6 years.

    Granted their resale value isn't too bad, but in the long run y ou'll pay far less for a comparable/better PC.

    That said, I love my Apple ][e, but that's another topic.


    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Shodan's Core - shodan.synchro.net:23 & :2323
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Android8675 on Wed Dec 18 12:29:20 2013
    I've heard people say that Apple's Mac prices are about on par with similarly-equipped PCs. I'm not sure if that's true, but if so, that

    If you build an exact system you might pay 10% more for the apple (imac only, powermac is a different story), but why would you want too? Apple systems are crap. Up front the apple systems seem like a good price, but keep in mind you can't upgrade those systems, hell even PC notebooks let
    you swap out the battery/hdd when it fails, but Apple needs you to replace your system every 5-6 years.

    I don't think Apple uses the name "PowerMac" for any of their Macs anymore, do they? I don't remember seeing one in quite some time. I believe their
    current lineup consists of the MacBook (Air, Pro), iMac, Mac Mini, and Mac
    Pro.

    And I agree, it's hard to justify paying the extra cost for an Apple machine.
    I think the only major reason is if someone wanted to run OS X - OS X officially only runs on an Apple machine. You can hack OS X to run on a non-Apple machine, but there are possible legal issues about that.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion BBS - digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Deuce@VERT/SYNCNIX to Mro on Wed Dec 18 17:13:06 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Mro to Nightfox on Wed Dec 18 2013 01:06 am

    I've heard people say that Apple's Mac prices are about on par with similarly-equipped PCs. I'm not sure if that's true, but if so, that means

    when someone tells you that bunch them in the cock.
    because they are a liar.

    Mro is wrong about this, but you likely knew that.

    Building an PC to meet the same specs as an Apple system however generally doesn't make sense for various reasons.

    ---
    http://DuckDuckGo.com/ a better search engine that respects your privacy.
    ■ Synchronet ■ My Brand-New BBS (All the cool SysOps run STOCK!)
  • From Deuce@VERT/SYNCNIX to Android8675 on Wed Dec 18 17:14:16 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Android8675 to Nightfox on Wed Dec 18 2013 08:05 am

    you swap out the battery/hdd when it fails, but Apple needs you to replace your system every 5-6 years.

    Apple policy is actually 3 years. You are at a large disadvantage extending your replacement cycle beyond that.

    ---
    http://DuckDuckGo.com/ a better search engine that respects your privacy.
    ■ Synchronet ■ My Brand-New BBS (All the cool SysOps run STOCK!)
  • From Mro@VERT/BBSESINF to Poindexter Fortran on Wed Dec 18 20:33:06 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Poindexter Fortran to Curly on Wed Dec 18 2013 06:37 am

    hey, leave my chicken alone

    When I started out BBSing, there was none of this cock-bunching talk. We were a civilized band of hooligans.


    cock bunching is when you take out both your cocks and hold them both in one hand and squeeze as hard as you can.

    THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Curly@VERT/TSGC to Mro on Wed Dec 18 19:19:30 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Mro to Poindexter Fortran on Wed Dec 18 2013 08:33 pm

    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Poindexter Fortran to Curly on Wed Dec 18 2013 06:37 am

    hey, leave my chicken alone

    When I started out BBSing, there was none of this cock-bunching talk. We were a civilized band of hooligans.


    cock bunching is when you take out both your cocks and hold them both in one hand and squeeze as hard as you can.

    THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!

    isnt that sort of rough on the animals?

    "Practise safe Lunch, Use a Condiment"


    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Three Stooges - Las Vegas, Nv - tsgc.synchro.net
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Mro on Wed Dec 18 19:40:02 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Mro to Nightfox on Wed Dec 18 2013 01:06:46

    when someone tells you that bunch them in the cock.

    I'm not entirely sure how to parse your sentence. Some punctuation would be useful. If you intended to have a comma after "that", I still don't know what it means to "bunch" someone.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion BBS - digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Deuce on Wed Dec 18 19:41:31 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Deuce to Mro on Wed Dec 18 2013 17:13:06

    Building an PC to meet the same specs as an Apple system however
    generally doesn't make sense for various reasons.

    What do you think those reasons are? I think it's useful at least to do a comparison of how much it would cost to build a similar system vs. how much Apple charges for theirs.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion BBS - digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Mro@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Wed Dec 18 23:49:50 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Nightfox to Mro on Wed Dec 18 2013 07:40 pm

    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Mro to Nightfox on Wed Dec 18 2013 01:06:46

    when someone tells you that bunch them in the cock.

    I'm not entirely sure how to parse your sentence. Some punctuation would
    be useful. If you intended to have a comma after "that", I still don't
    know what it means to "bunch" someone.


    it was a typo, "data".
    i type so fast sometimes the wrong letters shit out.

    i'll correct the punctuation:

    When someone tells you that, [rest of the sentence].
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Deuce@VERT/SYNCNIX to Nightfox on Thu Dec 19 17:40:40 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Nightfox to Deuce on Wed Dec 18 2013 07:41 pm

    Building an PC to meet the same specs as an Apple system however generally doesn't make sense for various reasons.

    What do you think those reasons are? I think it's useful at least to do a comparison of how much it would cost to build a similar system vs. how much Apple charges for theirs.

    Because the integration that Apple performs is often where the improvement comes from, not the chip they select itself. Their GPUs for example are often one or two years old not-quite top-of-the-line. The Mac drivers are much better than the Mac drivers for any other GPU, and the entire system is tuned expecting some of the features of it.

    A PC user would be better served by a newer and better GPU and following the rapid GPU driver updates as they are released along with the games.

    Similar with network cards... the Apple ones generally have on-chip support for
    things like bonjour support when the system is powered off. The chip itself isn't actually any better performance-wise than a cheaper one that's available on many other motherboard designs, and the feature Apple is paying more for doesn't help with the Windows experience. Because the entire system can save power by using that more expensive feature, Apple uses that better chip.

    To get that network chip in a PC, you'd have to get it on a NIC since nobody ships it as the LOM. the price differences because of stuff like this add up and you end up with a sound card, video card, and network card, all replacing something that's integrated on the motherboard you bought (because the chipset Apple uses always ships with integrated Network/Audio).

    Basically, putting the same specs together from white box components can't *really* be done unless you pay extra for features you won't use in a format that isn't the same as the Mac one.

    ---
    http://DuckDuckGo.com/ a better search engine that respects your privacy.
    ■ Synchronet ■ My Brand-New BBS (All the cool SysOps run STOCK!)
  • From Android8675@VERT/SHODAN to Nightfox on Thu Dec 19 15:46:34 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Nightfox to Android8675 on Wed Dec 18 2013 12:29 pm

    I don't think Apple uses the name "PowerMac" for any of their Macs
    believe their current lineup consists of the MacBook (Air, Pro), iMac, Mac Mini, and Mac Pro.

    holy hell dude, symantics, who cares, it's the high end mac that can be spec'ed out to a $20k system that you can get from Dell for $5k or less.


    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Shodan's Core - shodan.synchro.net:23 & :2323
  • From Android8675@VERT/SHODAN to Deuce on Thu Dec 19 15:49:50 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Deuce to Android8675 on Wed Dec 18 2013 05:14 pm

    you swap out the battery/hdd when it fails, but Apple needs you to
    replace your system every 5-6 years.

    Apple policy is actually 3 years. You are at a large disadvantage extending your replacement cycle beyond that.

    Yeah, but if you don't get your system serviced in 3 years it'll be dead in 5-6 and you being an apple guy (not you you, just you in general) you'll want to blow another $5k on the newest mac so people don't think you're poor... which you are because... Apple.

    I was saying that Apples systems are designed to fail in 5 years and since your system is all sealed and not serviceable your only option is to buy a brand new system.


    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Shodan's Core - shodan.synchro.net:23 & :2323
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Deuce on Thu Dec 19 20:19:50 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Deuce to Nightfox on Thu Dec 19 2013 17:40:40

    Building an PC to meet the same specs as an Apple system however
    generally doesn't make sense for various reasons.
    What do you think those reasons are? I think it's useful at least to

    Because the integration that Apple performs is often where the improvement
    comes from, not the chip they select itself. Their GPUs for example are often one or two years old not-quite top-of-the-line. The Mac drivers are much better than the Mac drivers for any other GPU, and the entire system is tuned expecting some of the features of it.

    I doubt that Apple writes all of their drivers for things like 3rd-party graphics cards (which they use from Nvidia and such). In fact I know that Intel provides drivers to Apple for some Intel hardware they use (such as chipsets). It seems to me it's probably much like the way many different companies write drivers which Microsoft includes with Windows (after going through driver certification).

    Similar with network cards... the Apple ones generally have on-chip support for things like bonjour support when the system is powered off. The chip itself isn't actually any better performance-wise than a cheaper one that's available on many other motherboard designs, and the feature Apple is paying more for doesn't help with the Windows experience. Because the entire system can save power by using that more expensive feature, Apple uses that better chip.

    To get that network chip in a PC, you'd have to get it on a NIC since nobody ships it as the LOM. the price differences because of stuff like this add up and you end up with a sound card, video card, and network card, all replacing something that's integrated on the motherboard you bought (because the chipset Apple uses always ships with integrated Network/Audio).

    Basically, putting the same specs together from white box components can't
    *really* be done unless you pay extra for features you won't use in a format that isn't the same as the Mac one.

    I wonder how much of that really matters though. If you list all the basic features that most people use (good processor, networking, audio, maybe a webcam, etc.), you can choose similar components for a PC that provide the same features. I can understand that Apple can potentially provide a better experience due to their vertical integration model, but I'm not convinced that it's enough of a difference to really matter to most users.

    Also, I believe much of what Apple uses is commodity parts anyway. For example, if you look at one of the Hackintosh guide sites (not that I endorse building a Hackintosh), there are lists of motherboards that are compatible with OS X, as well as other recommendations for parts. For instance: http://www.tonymacx86.com/393-building-customac-buyer-s-guide-october-2013.html Gigabyte seems to make the best motherboards for building a Hackintosh.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion BBS - digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Android8675 on Thu Dec 19 20:27:45 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Android8675 to Nightfox on Thu Dec 19 2013 15:46:34

    I don't think Apple uses the name "PowerMac" for any of their Macs
    believe their current lineup consists of the MacBook (Air, Pro),
    iMac, Mac Mini, and Mac Pro.

    holy hell dude, symantics, who cares, it's the high end mac that can be spec'ed out to a $20k system that you can get from Dell for $5k or less.

    Dude, semantics is almost everything if you want to be understood. You need your meaning to be clear. Apple did sell a system at one point called the Power Mac, and they no longer sell a machine with that name anymore. I believe you are referring to the Mac Pro.

    Anyway, I agree with you, you can get a PC with similar specs for much less than Apple's Mac Pro.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion BBS - digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Deuce@VERT/SYNCNIX to Android8675 on Thu Dec 19 22:24:31 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Android8675 to Deuce on Thu Dec 19 2013 03:49 pm

    I was saying that Apples systems are designed to fail in 5 years and since your system is all sealed and not serviceable your only option is to buy a brand new system.

    Most Macs I've encountered don't die after 5 years... in face all the Macs I have still work and they're all over 5 years old. My beige G3 even still works.

    But they all became effectively useless and completely unsupported after three years so it ddoesn't matter that they work.

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  • From Deuce@VERT/SYNCNIX to Nightfox on Thu Dec 19 22:30:08 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Nightfox to Deuce on Thu Dec 19 2013 08:19 pm

    Because the integration that Apple performs is often where the improvement
    comes from, not the chip they select itself. Their GPUs for example are often one or two years old not-quite top-of-the-line. The Mac drivers are much better than the Mac drivers for any other GPU, and
    the entire system is tuned expecting some of the features of it.

    I doubt that Apple writes all of their drivers for things like 3rd-party graphics cards (which they use from Nvidia and such).

    I didn't say that Apple wrote all the drivers themselves, but they absolutely do have more driver input than Dell or Microsoft for every piece of hardware they ship.

    I wonder how much of that really matters though. If you list all the basic features that most people use (good processor, networking, audio, maybe a webcam, etc.), you can choose similar components for a PC that provide the same features.

    Right, but that's not what we were talking about. An Apple system is generally
    a much better integrated system than an PC... that's part of the value... but the question at hand was an identically specced system.

    Also, I believe much of what Apple uses is commodity parts anyway.

    Apple often uses chippery that can use the same drivers, but isn't exactly the same (as with the aforementioned network chip). While some are commidity, there is enough Apple magic that it's different.

    But these sorts of things don't provide value to a lot of people, so while an identically specced PC system is about the same price (actually generally a highe price) that's fine because nobody actually wants one - if they did, they'd buy a Mac.

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  • From Curly@VERT/TSGC to Deuce on Fri Dec 20 08:37:49 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Deuce to Android8675 on Thu Dec 19 2013 10:24 pm

    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Android8675 to Deuce on Thu Dec 19 2013 03:49 pm

    I was saying that Apples systems are designed to fail in 5 years and sinc your system is all sealed and not serviceable your only option is to buy brand new system.

    Most Macs I've encountered don't die after 5 years... in face all the Macs I have still work and they're all over 5 years old. My beige G3 even still works.

    But they all became effectively useless and completely unsupported after thr years so it ddoesn't matter that they work.


    yep, thier are more antique macs still running then any other computers.
    I have a LISA, Color Classic, Mac sI and a mini that all work like brand new. the mini runs OSX 10.4 unix on 256 megs of ram, and mac os9 too.


    "Practise safe Lunch, Use a Condiment"


    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Three Stooges - Las Vegas, Nv - tsgc.synchro.net
  • From ROB MCCART@VERT/CAPCITY2/CAPCITY to CURLY on Fri Dec 20 16:33:00 2013
    cock bunching is when you take out both your cocks and hold them both in o
    > > hand and squeeze as hard as you can.

    isnt that sort of rough on the animals?

    Leaves them in a 'fowl' mood...

    ---
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to ROB MCCART on Sat Dec 21 08:13:33 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: ROB MCCART to CURLY on Fri Dec 20 2013 16:33:00

    cock bunching is when you take out both your cocks and hold them
    both in o
    > > hand and squeeze as hard as you can.

    isnt that sort of rough on the animals?

    Leaves them in a 'fowl' mood...

    That idea just isn't going to fly.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion BBS - digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Poindexter Fortran@VERT/REALITY to Nightfox on Sat Dec 21 10:02:12 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Nightfox to ROB MCCART on Sat Dec 21 2013 08:13 am

    cock bunching is when you take out both your cocks and hold them
    both in o
    hand and squeeze as hard as you can.

    isnt that sort of rough on the animals?

    Leaves them in a 'fowl' mood...

    That idea just isn't going to fly.

    Please, don't egg him on, this is off-topic!

    ---
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Poindexter Fortran on Sat Dec 21 10:55:05 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Poindexter Fortran to Nightfox on Sat Dec 21 2013 10:02:12

    cock bunching is when you take out both your cocks and hold
    them both in o
    hand and squeeze as hard as you can.

    isnt that sort of rough on the animals?

    Leaves them in a 'fowl' mood...

    That idea just isn't going to fly.

    Please, don't egg him on, this is off-topic!

    Birds of a feather flock together.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion BBS - digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Curly@VERT/TSGC to Nightfox on Sat Dec 21 11:30:36 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Nightfox to ROB MCCART on Sat Dec 21 2013 08:13 am

    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: ROB MCCART to CURLY on Fri Dec 20 2013 16:33:00

    cock bunching is when you take out both your cocks and hold them
    both in o
    > > hand and squeeze as hard as you can.

    isnt that sort of rough on the animals?

    Leaves them in a 'fowl' mood...

    That idea just isn't going to fly.

    Nightfox


    why? are you chicken?

    "Practise safe Lunch, Use a Condiment"


    ---
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Curly on Sat Dec 21 12:26:15 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Curly to Nightfox on Sat Dec 21 2013 11:30:36

    Leaves them in a 'fowl' mood...

    That idea just isn't going to fly.

    why? are you chicken?

    No. This kind of thing is for the birds.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion BBS - digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From ROB MCCART@VERT/CAPCITY2/CAPCITY to POINDEXTER FORTRAN on Sun Dec 22 16:30:00 2013
    isnt that sort of rough on the animals?

    Leaves them in a 'fowl' mood...

    That idea just isn't going to fly.

    Please, don't egg him on, this is off-topic!

    We were only yolking.. B)

    ---
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  • From Mro@VERT/BBSESINF to ROB MCCART on Mon Dec 23 11:13:14 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: ROB MCCART to POINDEXTER FORTRAN on Sun Dec 22 2013 04:30 pm

    isnt that sort of rough on the animals?

    Leaves them in a 'fowl' mood...

    That idea just isn't going to fly.

    Please, don't egg him on, this is off-topic!

    We were only yolking.. B)



    puns.....too.....much to ........ *dies*
    ---
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  • From Android8675@VERT/SHODAN to Deuce on Mon Dec 23 07:32:44 2013
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Deuce to Android8675 on Thu Dec 19 2013 10:24 pm

    Most Macs I've encountered don't die after 5 years... in face all the Macs I have still work and they're all over 5 years old. My beige G3 even still works.

    But they all became effectively useless and completely unsupported after three years so it ddoesn't matter that they work.

    I know, my parents still use one of those old Dome iMac's with the monitor on the articulating arm. Don't get me wrong, Apples are good products, but when they fail, just buy a new one. At least that's what they'll hope you'll do.


    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Shodan's Core - shodan.synchro.net:23 & :2323
  • From Digital Man@VERT to Mro on Sat Jan 4 00:37:01 2014
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Mro to Nightfox on Wed Dec 18 2013 11:49 pm

    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Nightfox to Mro on Wed Dec 18 2013 07:40 pm

    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Mro to Nightfox on Wed Dec 18 2013 01:06:46

    when someone tells you that bunch them in the cock.

    I'm not entirely sure how to parse your sentence. Some punctuation
    would be useful. If you intended to have a comma after "that", I still don't know what it means to "bunch" someone.


    it was a typo, "data".
    i type so fast sometimes the wrong letters shit out.

    But 'b' and 'p' are nowhere near eachother on a standard (QWERTY) keyboard. What kind of keyboard are you using?

    digital man

    Synchronet "Real Fact" #11:
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  • From Mro@VERT/BBSESINF to Digital Man on Sat Jan 4 05:10:21 2014
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Digital Man to Mro on Sat Jan 04 2014 12:37 am

    would be useful. If you intended to have a comma after "that", I still don't know what it means to "bunch" someone.


    it was a typo, "data".
    i type so fast sometimes the wrong letters shit out.

    But 'b' and 'p' are nowhere near eachother on a standard (QWERTY) keyboard. What kind of keyboard are you using?



    i'm using a keyboard from another universe.
    ---
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  • From Digital Man@VERT to Mro on Sat Jan 4 16:34:56 2014
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Mro to Digital Man on Sat Jan 04 2014 05:10 am

    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Digital Man to Mro on Sat Jan 04 2014 12:37 am

    would be useful. If you intended to have a comma after "that", I still don't know what it means to "bunch" someone.


    it was a typo, "data".
    i type so fast sometimes the wrong letters shit out.

    But 'b' and 'p' are nowhere near eachother on a standard (QWERTY) keyboard. What kind of keyboard are you using?



    i'm using a keyboard from another universe.

    I guess so. An IBM "warped" keyboard maybe?

    digital man

    Synchronet "Real Fact" #82:
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  • From Mro@VERT/BBSESINF to Digital Man on Sat Jan 4 18:57:44 2014
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Digital Man to Mro on Sat Jan 04 2014 04:34 pm


    But 'b' and 'p' are nowhere near eachother on a standard (QWERTY) keyboard. What kind of keyboard are you using?



    i'm using a keyboard from another universe.

    I guess so. An IBM "warped" keyboard maybe?


    sometimes when i type really fast i type the wrong words.
    it's because i am thinking ahead and something gets swapped around.

    i looked into it and i guess it's pretty common. sometimes i even say the wrong words.


    right now i'm using a dell keyboard i took from work. http://i.imgur.com/VA5xXlZ.png


    they were throwing out hundreds of new ones so i figured i'd take some.
    if it gets dirty i chuck it and get another one out of my closet

    usually, my keyboard of choice is the g15

    http://i.imgur.com/bhIKiyl.jpg
    i went through 2 of them when cleaning them though..and they're not cheap.

    all i ever did was use a damp brush to scrub the keys while holding it upside down. i ended up with one key not working.
    when you take them apart they all fall apart to pieces.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Digital Man@VERT to Mro on Sat Jan 4 22:18:29 2014
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Mro to Digital Man on Sat Jan 04 2014 06:57 pm

    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Digital Man to Mro on Sat Jan 04 2014 04:34 pm


    But 'b' and 'p' are nowhere near eachother on a standard (QWERTY) keyboard. What kind of keyboard are you using?



    i'm using a keyboard from another universe.

    I guess so. An IBM "warped" keyboard maybe?


    sometimes when i type really fast i type the wrong words.
    it's because i am thinking ahead and something gets swapped around.

    That happens to me when writing (e.g. with a pen), but not usually while typing. Well maybe sometimes.

    I just thought the b/p typo was pretty funny - they're not even typed with the same hand (unless you're a very unorthodox typist).

    i looked into it and i guess it's pretty common. sometimes i even say the wrong words.


    right now i'm using a dell keyboard i took from work. http://i.imgur.com/VA5xXlZ.png

    I have some of those. I like the built-in USB hub and extra buttons and knob are cool, but I always forget they're there and never use them.

    they were throwing out hundreds of new ones so i figured i'd take some.
    if it gets dirty i chuck it and get another one out of my closet

    usually, my keyboard of choice is the g15

    http://i.imgur.com/bhIKiyl.jpg

    This is my keyboard of choice: http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/419V8X7P7FL.jpg
    Normal keyboards cramp my hands and limit the hours I can't spend at the keyboard. The natural keyboards are a godsend (for me).

    digital man

    Synchronet "Real Fact" #83:
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Digital Man on Sun Jan 5 09:37:38 2014
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Digital Man to Mro on Sat Jan 04 2014 22:18:29

    This is my keyboard of choice: http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/419V8X7P7FL.jpg
    Normal keyboards cramp my hands and limit the hours I can't spend at the keyboard. The natural keyboards are a godsend (for me).

    I've thought about trying a keyboard like that. It makes sense - the straight keyboard shape does force the hands into a somewhat odd position. I'm somewhat surprised that advancements in keyboards such as a natural shape and Dvorak key layout aren't more common. I've read that the reason that keys are arranged the way they are in a QWERTY keyboard layout aren't necessarily for efficiency, but more so that the arms of a typewriter wouldn't get jammed due to someone typing too fast. Even though that layout was designed for typewriters, we're still using that key layout today. I've thought about learning Dvorak, but I still use a QWERTY keyboard because it's the de-facto standard, so I can type on any computer. I've known people who use Dvorak at home and have a hard time typing at work because they aren't used to the QWERTY layout.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion BBS - digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Mro@VERT/BBSESINF to Digital Man on Sun Jan 5 11:58:15 2014
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Digital Man to Mro on Sat Jan 04 2014 10:18 pm

    This is my keyboard of choice: http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/419V8X7P7FL.jpg
    Normal keyboards cramp my hands and limit the hours I can't spend at the keyboard. The natural keyboards are a godsend (for me).



    i have one of those that i havent taken home. it's black though.
    i never could get used to those things.

    you should look into your hand posture when using a keyboard. i had a very strict typing teacher and i'm programmed to have a proper hand posture even though over the 25 years since i've learned to type i've picked up some bad habits.
    ---
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  • From Access Denied@VERT/PHARCYDE to Digital Man on Sun Jan 5 20:28:40 2014
    Hello Digital,

    On 04 Jan 14 22:18, Digital Man wrote to Mro:

    usually, my keyboard of choice is the g15

    http://i.imgur.com/bhIKiyl.jpg

    This is my keyboard of choice: http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/419V8X7P7FL.jpg
    Normal keyboards cramp my hands and limit the hours I can't spend at
    the keyboard. The natural keyboards are a godsend (for me).

    I had a Microsoft Wave II keyboard or whatever it was, which was a lot like the one you mention above, except black. Definitely the most comfortable keyboard I've ever used. The only bad thing about it was it was wireless, and not a very good wireless at that. It would cut out on you while mid-sentence at times, which was very annoying to say the least.

    I've now gotten myself a Razer Deathstalker Ultimate gaming keyboard:

    http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-keyboards-keypads/razer-deathstalker-ultimate

    ..with the matching Razer Deathadder gaming mouse.

    Nowhere near as comfortable, but the key presses are great and the gaming aspect of precision timing and response is awesome. I suppose I don't really need the comfort as much as you probably do, since I don't use a computer for work - I'm basically only on it at home when I have some free time. For someone who is forced to use a keyboard all day long, I would definitely go back to the comfortable keyboards in a heartbeat.

    I did notice the one you posted had a cord. Is it USB? Do you also know the exact name of it so I can search and compare pricing? Having something like that as a backup, or even for when I'm not gaming, and isn't wireless, would be great I think.

    Regards,
    Nick

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20130910
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  • From Digital Man@VERT to Mro on Sun Jan 5 23:18:54 2014
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Mro to Digital Man on Sun Jan 05 2014 11:58 am

    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Digital Man to Mro on Sat Jan 04 2014 10:18 pm

    This is my keyboard of choice: http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/419V8X7P7FL.jpg
    Normal keyboards cramp my hands and limit the hours I can't spend at the keyboard. The natural keyboards are a godsend (for me).



    i have one of those that i havent taken home. it's black though.
    i never could get used to those things.

    It took just a little while. Of course, it helps to be a touch typist.

    you should look into your hand posture when using a keyboard. i had a very strict typing teacher and i'm programmed to have a proper hand posture even though over the 25 years since i've learned to type i've picked up some bad habits.

    Yeah, me too (high school typing class). I'm just old now (arthritis) and playing drums is hard on the joints too. Natural keyboards may not be for everyone, but they sure have helped me. I can't stand typing on a straight keyboard for more than just a little while nowadays.

    digital man

    Synchronet "Real Fact" #84:
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  • From Digital Man@VERT to Access Denied on Sun Jan 5 23:22:12 2014
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Access Denied to Digital Man on Sun Jan 05 2014 08:28 pm

    I did notice the one you posted had a cord. Is it USB? Do you also know the exact name of it so I can search and compare pricing? Having something like that as a backup, or even for when I'm not gaming, and isn't wireless,
    would be great I think.

    It's a Microsoft Natural keyboard. I have them in USB and PS/2 (though the one I'm using right this second is PS/2). Microsoft make them wireless and wired: http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-us/keyboards

    digital man

    Synchronet "Real Fact" #35:
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  • From Access Denied@VERT/PHARCYDE to Digital Man on Mon Jan 6 13:07:56 2014
    Hello Digital,

    On 05 Jan 14 23:22, Digital Man wrote to Access Denied:

    It's a Microsoft Natural keyboard. I have them in USB and PS/2 (though
    the one I'm using right this second is PS/2). Microsoft make them
    wireless and wired:
    http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-us/keyboards

    Thanks for the link. The reason I asked is because I've *never* seen them in stores. The only thing close was that Wave keyboard, but that was wireless and complete junk, IMO.

    Regards,
    Nick

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  • From Khelair@VERT/TINFOIL to Nightfox on Tue Jan 7 07:02:56 2014
    Re: Keyboards
    By: Nightfox to Digital Man on Sun Jan 05 2014 09:37:38

    on any computer. I've known people who use Dvorak at home and have a hard t typing at work because they aren't used to the QWERTY layout.

    I wonder how tough it would be to switch back and forth between the two once you picked up Dvorak... I've thought many times about picking it up; I can type (er, was clocked at, anyway, about a decade ago, before carpal tunnel set in) 119wpm in 3 minute trials, ~95+ without errors. I'd like to see what I can get to on a dvorak layout. I've downloaded the tutors multiple times, but never really sat down and started making attempts to learn it.

    --Damo dice, "Perhaps today IS a good day to die!"

    ---
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Khelair on Tue Jan 7 19:35:26 2014
    Re: Re: Dvorak (was: Keyboards)
    By: Khelair to Nightfox on Tue Jan 07 2014 07:02:56

    I wonder how tough it would be to switch back and forth between the two
    once you picked up Dvorak... I've thought many times about picking it
    up; I can type (er, was clocked at, anyway, about a decade ago, before
    carpal tunnel set in) 119wpm in 3 minute trials, ~95+ without errors.
    I'd like to see what I can get to on a dvorak layout. I've downloaded
    the tutors multiple times, but never really sat down and started making
    attempts to learn it.

    That's my concern as well. I'm fairly good with QWERTY too, and I wonder if learning another keyboard layout would hurt performance overall - similar to the effect of being a jack of all trades but not really good at any one thing.

    Nightfox

    ---
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  • From Khelair@VERT/TINFOIL to Nightfox on Wed Jan 8 14:07:42 2014
    Re: Re: Dvorak (was: Keyboards)
    By: Nightfox to Khelair on Tue Jan 07 2014 19:35:26

    That's my concern as well. I'm fairly good with QWERTY too, and I wonder if learning another keyboard layout would hurt performance overall - similar to the effect of being a jack of all trades but not really good at any one thing.

    Yeah, I'm guessing it's stored in very close to the same spaces in the communications area of the brain as language mappings. I don't know for sure if it'd affect it the same way, but it seems to me that there'd be some large potential for incorrect cross-referencings. For instance, I know English natively, then Spanish quasi-fluently, and German well enough to get around in the country, but not to sit and have a dialog. When I'm struggling to learn new Spanish, or delving into Spanish that is a little too deep for me, I start coming up with tons of German references, and vice versa. I'm thinking that there's a possibility that typing fast and furious with knowledge of 2 keyboard layouts might well cause the same sort of thing.

    --Damo dice, "Perhaps today IS a good day to die!"

    ---
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Khelair on Wed Jan 8 20:06:17 2014
    Re: Re: Dvorak (was: Keyboards)
    By: Khelair to Nightfox on Wed Jan 08 2014 14:07:42

    Yeah, I'm guessing it's stored in very close to the same spaces in the
    communications area of the brain as language mappings. I don't know for
    sure if it'd affect it the same way, but it seems to me that there'd be
    some large potential for incorrect cross-referencings. For instance, I

    That could be true. But I wonder if it has more to do with muscle memory. I feel like I know where to reach when I want to type each character. But then, I often type more naturally than that, in that I often don't really have to think about typing - it just happens.

    know English natively, then Spanish quasi-fluently, and German well
    enough to get around in the country, but not to sit and have a dialog.
    When I'm struggling to learn new Spanish, or delving into Spanish that
    is a little too deep for me, I start coming up with tons of German
    references, and vice versa. I'm thinking that there's a possibility
    that typing fast and furious with knowledge of 2 keyboard layouts might
    well cause the same sort of thing.

    I've done that to some extent when learning certain languages too. English is also my native language, but I've also studied German, Portuguese, and a bit of Japanese - and sometimes when trying to speak one of those languages, I occasionally think of a reference in a different language, but I know it's incorrect.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion BBS - digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Khelair@VERT/TINFOIL to Nightfox on Fri Jan 10 07:20:18 2014
    Re: Re: Dvorak (was: Keyboards)
    By: Nightfox to Khelair on Wed Jan 08 2014 20:06:17

    That could be true. But I wonder if it has more to do with muscle memory. I feel like I know where to reach when I want to type each character. But then, I often type more naturally than that, in that I often don't really have to think about typing - it just happens.

    There's definitely some points where typing occurs much more as muscle memory than as something that you need to think about typing. I've got a few passphrases for my varying levels of encryption in different applications and services. The one that I'm thinking of right now is one that I use for my most securely encrypted things; it's 30-40 characters long, with a few english-ish words thrown in, but spelled wrong with varying case throughout the word, broken with random number & symbol inserts, etc... I had to write it down for a couple of weeks while I used it over and over again... That was awhile back. Now for the life of me I can barely remember it without at least pretending I have a keyboard in front of me to type on. Heh.

    I've done that to some extent when learning certain languages too. English is also my native language, but I've also studied German, Portuguese, and a bit of Japanese - and sometimes when trying to speak one of those languages, I occasionally think of a reference in a different language, but I know it's incorrect.

    Yeah, that happens to me somewhat, too; sometimes I can't pull up the reference on the tip of my tongue for quite some time, though. It's annoying as all hell.

    --Damo dice, "Perhaps today IS a good day to die!"

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  • From Froggyme@VERT/LILLYPAD to Poindexter Fortran on Sun May 11 19:55:57 2014
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Poindexter Fortran to Digital Man on Fri Dec 06 2013 06:55 am

    Interesting that the recent T series have forgone the BEST LAPTOP KEYBOARD IN THE WORLD and gone to an island/chiclet keyboard like the MacBook Pro. I suppose I should get in line with the rest of the world and use a chiclet keyboard, big multi-touchpad, and give up the trackpoint. Not yet, though.

    Yeah, if you like your mouse wiggling around nondeterministically and imprecisely whenever you click. Bleh!

    It's so obvious to have a stationary mouse pad, and separate buttons.
    Probably costs less to manufacture, too.

    Oh yeah, and say goodbye to the top third of your screen. Paying extra for the feature of "wide screen" even though the screen is no wider.

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  • From Poindexter Fortran@VERT/REALITY to Froggyme on Wed May 14 10:21:19 2014
    Re: Windows 8 / 8.1
    By: Froggyme to Poindexter Fortran on Sun May 11 2014 07:55 pm

    Oh yeah, and say goodbye to the top third of your screen. Paying extra for the feature of "wide screen" even though the screen is no wider.


    Huzzah. I still like a 1024x768 or 1280x1024 4:3 screen. HD widescreen screens are too high-res for my eyes.

    What's annoying is that web pages are starting to be written for wide screens. It's easy enough to lay out a web page with scaling elements, but I see more than assume that the screen is at least 1366 pixels wide.

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  • From Lord Time@VERT/TIME to Digital Man on Thu May 15 13:32:00 2014
    In a reply from Digital Man on 22:46 about Windows 8 / 8.1

    Ive been looking for a new laptop for my girlfriend for Christmas however they all seem to have windows 8 on now as you would expect.

    I recently purchased a replacement laptop for my dad and since he's not about to learn Windows 8, I had to go with an older Dell model (from costco.com) since the first HP Envy unit I bought couldn't be downgraded to Win7 without sacrificing USB support.

    I know this is old but H-P is about 90% win.7 on there computer (laptops \ desktop) and about 10% win. 8 (there runing into problems with that os)

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    Lord Time SysOp of Time Warp of the Future BBS
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    ■ CMPQwk 1.42-R2 16554 ■ DEVICEHIGH: Your device driver on drugs.
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  • From Lord Time@VERT/TIME to Nightfox on Thu May 15 13:34:00 2014
    In a reply from Nightfox on 21:27 about Windows 8 / 8.1

    I recently purchased a replacement laptop for my dad and since he's not about to learn Windows 8, I had to go with an older Dell model (from costco.com) since the first HP Envy unit I bought couldn't be downgraded to Win7 without sacrificing USB support.

    I've noticed that Lenovo still offers Windows 7 on some of its new PCs.

    I know this is old, but so is H-P

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    Rob Starr
    Lord Time SysOp of Time Warp of the Future BBS
    telnet://time.synchro.net:24
    ICQ # 11868133 Yahoo : lordtime2000
    AIM : LordTime20000 MSN : Lord Time
    Jabber : lordtime2000@gmail.com Astra : lord_time


    ■ CMPQwk 1.42-R2 16554 ■ "Ok, Alex, I'll take 'Look, there's a dragon behind you...' for $200."
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