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  • PacNW Passive-Aggressiveness

    From Khelair@VERT/TINFOIL to The Curmudgeon on Wed Nov 12 22:53:33 2014
    Re: PacNW Passive-Aggressiveness
    By: The Curmudgeon to Heliarc on Wed Nov 12 2014 15:44:42

    Is there anyone you approve of in this world?

    My guess is himself... he's a legend in his own mind. :)

    You guys selectively read, and when you're not doing that, you assume that I've written the whole story. This isn't my blog here, guys, if you want to read what I really think about me, and my place, check there. If you care enough to gossip, you should care enough to research, at least if you want to have an informed opinion.

    If you'd bothered with any of these things, you'd quickly find that I'm just as critical of myself as I am of other people, if not moreso. I take pride in the fact that I'm willing to work on correcting my faults, when I become aware of them, when so many people seem to just plod on, yes... But if you had any idea of how much I've grilled myself for things that I've fucked up on, ways that I've wronged people for stupid (or no) reasons, or countless other things, well maybe you'd still be saying the same things... Judging by the fact that you never respond to any of the content, you just take poorly articulated pot shots from the safety of your obscure corners.

    Have you thought of maybe putting together an argument about why I think I'm legend in my own mind? Maybe looking back through some posts to get information to cite to back that up?

    Eh, I don't even know why I'm bothering. It was certainly no surprise seeing The Curmudgeon's handle at the top of that ad hominem or whatever common logical fallacy that it was vocalizing support.

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  • From Ronald Reid@VERT/THEWASTE to Khelair on Thu Nov 13 06:09:19 2014
    Re: PacNW Passive-Aggressiveness
    By: Khelair to Heliarc on Wed Nov 12 2014 07:51 pm








    Certainly nobody with unquestioned American values, though.


    What exactly are "American Values"? America is as diverse as you are going to find. The values in Philadelphia, PA are going to be much different than those in Death Valley, CA. Please elaborate on that.

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  • From Poindexter Fortran@VERT/REALITY to Khelair on Thu Nov 13 12:40:00 2014
    Subject: Re: PacNW Passive-Aggressiveness
    @MSGID: <54655E7B.10869.dove.dove-gen@realitycheckbbs.org>
    @REPLY: <54642AC5.10193.dove-gen@tinfoil.synchro.net>
    @TZ: 41e0
    Khelair wrote to Heliarc <=-

    Is there anyone you approve of in this world?

    Ghandi.

    I'd fight him.

    --pF




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  • From Khelair@VERT/TINFOIL to Ronald Reid on Fri Nov 14 21:38:19 2014
    Re: PacNW Passive-Aggressiveness
    By: Ronald Reid to Khelair on Thu Nov 13 2014 06:09:19

    What exactly are "American Values"? America is as diverse as you are going to find. The values in Philadelphia, PA are going to be much different than those in Death Valley, CA. Please elaborate on that.

    Well you hit that mistake of mine spot on. I wasn't nearly specific enough. When shit really rubs me the wrong way, I make the mistake of thinking that I'm talking to people that know me as well as those that I spend a lot of time around pretty often. They would've understood what I meant, but not a lot of others.
    Maybe it would've been more clear if I would've said 'belief in capitalism', or 'western democracy'. Either way it's still not nearly as specific as I should be, I suppose. What I'm talking about are the beliefs that A) American culture is superior because we are 'free' and all conflict that we're involved in is because people hate us for our 'freedom' (and inherent superiority for having such). That's not really all of it either, though. Belief that capitalism and the free market are reasons for our success, when the very position that the Federal Reserve holds in our economy and government blows the notion that we HAVE a truly free market out of the water. The belief that the anti-monopoly act is truly enforced, etc...
    The arrogance in general, I suppose? I don't know, I put it together pretty well in my head when I first read this message, but didn't have the motivation to write it... Now that I've got the motivation to write, it seems more like
    I just want to spill out everything that I see as wrong with this culture.
    I'll send this for now, I'm pretty sure I'll have my head around a more concise definition of what I was thinking of within a relatively short amount of time.

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Khelair on Fri Nov 14 23:08:24 2014
    Re: PacNW Passive-Aggressiveness
    By: Khelair to Ronald Reid on Fri Nov 14 2014 21:38:19

    that A) American culture is superior because we are 'free' and all conflict that we're involved in is because people hate us for our 'freedom' (and inherent superiority for having such).

    This is straying from the original topic a bit, but it seems that's what the media wants us to believe - that those who want to attack the US "hate" our freedom. However it seems to me that the message they've been trying to get across is that they don't like how the US occupies and seems to try to influence other countries so much. I've heard that the US has many military bases in other countries, and I can see how other countries wouldn't like that. I think it would be good to try to keep out of other countries' business more and try to improve things back home more.

    Nightfox

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  • From Ronald Reid@VERT/THEWASTE to Khelair on Sat Nov 15 01:38:00 2014
    Re: PacNW Passive-Aggressiveness
    By: Khelair to Ronald Reid on Fri Nov 14 2014 09:38 pm

    Re: PacNW Passive-Aggressiveness
    By: Ronald Reid to Khelair on Thu Nov 13 2014 06:09:19

    What exactly are "American Values"? America is as diverse as you are going to find. The values in Philadelphia, PA are going to be much different than those in Death Valley, CA. Please elaborate on that.

    Well you hit that mistake of mine spot on. I wasn't nearly specific enoug When shit really rubs me the wrong way, I make the mistake of thinking that talking to people that know me as well as those that I spend a lot of time around pretty often. They would've understood what I meant, but not a lot o others.
    Maybe it would've been more clear if I would've said 'belief in capitalism or 'western democracy'. Either way it's still not nearly as specific as I should be, I suppose. What I'm talking about are the beliefs that A) Americ culture is superior because we are 'free' and all conflict that we're involv in is because people hate us for our 'freedom' (and inherent superiority for having such). That's not really all of it either, though. Belief that capitalism and the free market are reasons for our success, when the very position that the Federal Reserve holds in our economy and government blows notion that we HAVE a truly free market out of the water. The belief that t anti-monopoly act is truly enforced, etc...
    The arrogance in general, I suppose? I don't know, I put it together pret well in my head when I first read this message, but didn't have the motivati to write it... Now that I've got the motivation to write, it seems more lik I just want to spill out everything that I see as wrong with this culture.
    I'll send this for now, I'm pretty sure I'll have my head around a more concise definition of what I was thinking of within a relatively short amoun of time.

    Got it.

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  • From The Curmudgeon@VERT/TCP to Khelair on Sun Nov 16 01:02:00 2014
    For reasons unknown to us Khelair said thus to The Curmudgeon:


    You guys selectively read, and when you're not doing that, you
    assume that I've written the whole story. This isn't my blog
    here, guys,

    You assume too much yourself.

    If you'd bothered with any of these things, you'd quickly find
    that I'm just as critical of myself as I am of other people, if
    not moreso.

    If you say so

    Have you thought of maybe putting together an argument about
    why I think I'm legend in my own mind? Maybe looking back
    through some posts to get information to cite to back that up?

    I could but one could just look at the plethora of posts you've contributed to
    in this , among other, echos. I've no doubt that your intelligence level is above most here but apparently so is your ego and arrogance. To make a point..
    a few months ago you were posting about and chiding I might add, a poster alluding to the fact you were in the service and had active duty. No , that's not what you said but the wording implied that's what you meant. When I called
    you on it , I'll give you credit for honesty here, you admitted it was serving as an MP. That's not anywhere near the real experience of combat.

    Eh, I don't even know why I'm bothering. It was certainly no
    surprise seeing The Curmudgeon's handle at the top of that ad
    hominem or whatever common logical fallacy that it was
    vocalizing support.

    You've just made my point, thank you so much for that as you certainly are the
    master of ad hominem attacks. Seems like anyone who doesn't agree with you is subject to a lot worse than you receive. I'd consider it an honor if I were to
    land up on your "twit list" cause quite frankly I'd rather deal with sane and sensible people who don't have a habit of their huge ego getting in the way. Have a nice day.

    Oh, BTW, I see your post about being able to be stoned to put up with your boss. That explains a lot of where you seem to be coming from..... bye


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  • From The Curmudgeon@VERT/TCP to Nightfox on Sun Nov 16 01:17:41 2014
    For reasons unknown to us Nightfox said thus to Khelair:

    I've heard that the US has many military bases in other
    countries, and I can see how other countries wouldn't like
    that. I think it would be good to try to keep out of other
    countries' business more and try to improve things back home
    more.

    Ummm, you have heard of NATO and or SEATO I'm hoping. Also many countries don't have much of a standing military and actually ask for assistance. Diplomats , however, have a far different agenda and not always in the best interest of either country. :)

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  • From Access Denied@VERT/PHARCYDE to The Curmudgeon on Sun Nov 16 15:24:02 2014
    Hello The,

    On 16 Nov 14 01:17, The Curmudgeon wrote to Nightfox:

    Ummm, you have heard of NATO and or SEATO I'm hoping. Also many countries don't have much of a standing military and actually ask for assistance. Diplomats , however, have a far different agenda and not always in the best interest of either country. :)

    That's when we call up 'Atlas Corporation' and have them take care of it!

    * Joking reference from the latest Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare game, is all.
    Don't take it seriously. :)

    Regards,
    Nick

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  • From The Curmudgeon@VERT/TCP to Access Denied on Tue Nov 18 02:21:51 2014
    For reasons unknown to us Access Denied said thus to The Curmudgeon:

    Diplomats , however, have a far different agenda and not
    always in the best interest of either country. :)

    That's when we call up 'Atlas Corporation' and have them take
    care of it!

    Yeah, sounds like a plan to me. :)

    * Joking reference from the latest Call of Duty: Advanced
    Warfare game, is all. Don't take it seriously. :)

    I didn't. :) Believe it or not I do have a sense of humor.... err.. sometimes. <g>




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  • From Khelair@VERT/TINFOIL to All on Mon Nov 3 06:21:16 2014
    I don't know how many people there are around here in the PacNW, but I know there's at least one... Can anybody, or anybody that may've spent any decent amount of time in that area, possibly tell me what I might be able to do to find some people that aren't totally into the passive-aggressive bullshit and can be somewhat straight-up with their thoughts and feelings on things instead of hiding, stuffing, and running away? I am really into people with forthright communication, because communication breakdowns really fuck me up. Being raised in such an isolated environment by my doomsday cultish parents kind of fucked up my ability to model other people's internal emotional states based on external stimuli.
    I mean, I've tried to go and learn to read microexpressions and gesture body language, and that's helped a whole lot. I can read a lot of that facial shit in an instant and know what emotions a person is feeling even when they think that they're hiding it well. The problem is that I don't know what is causing it, unless they're in a state where they're directly interacting with only me, or another single person and I'm witnessing, where they're completely focused.
    Some of the communication breakdowns I've had here are due to direct passive-aggressiveness that seems utterly rampant, at least in this middle-class yuppie neighborhood that I've landed at. Other parts of it are from people that I know aren't too into that, but seem to be kind of cowards about bringing up things that are really important with people in their lives; they sugarcoat to the point of the truth being altered or completely missing. I feel like a large component of my life is missing because of this shit, and I just want to meet some more people that are up-front about shit without having to go into a neighborhood where people are totally up in each others faces (like when I was in Jersey) in order to know what they're feeling. I didn't mind living in a place like that when I was alone, but with a kid I'm trying to find a happier medium.
    Thanks for any input...

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Khelair on Mon Nov 3 20:32:44 2014
    Re: PacNW Passive-Aggressiveness
    By: Khelair to All on Mon Nov 03 2014 06:21:16

    I don't know how many people there are around here in the PacNW, but I
    know there's at least one... Can anybody, or anybody that may've spent
    any decent amount of time in that area, possibly tell me what I might be
    able to do to find some people that aren't totally into the
    passive-aggressive bullshit and can be somewhat straight-up with their
    thoughts and feelings on things instead of hiding, stuffing, and running
    away?

    focused. Some of the communication breakdowns I've had here are due to
    direct passive-aggressiveness that seems utterly rampant, at least in
    this middle-class yuppie neighborhood that I've landed at. Other parts
    of it are from people that I know aren't too into that, but seem to be
    kind of cowards about bringing up things that are really important with
    people in their lives; they sugarcoat to the point of the truth being
    altered or completely missing.

    I've always thought there can be good & bad people everywhere, people who will annoy you everywhere, etc.. I'm not sure I can say I've seen much passive-aggressiveness in the area, but perhaps that may be due to where I've spent most of my time. I think how you react to peoples' communications is important too. If people come across as sugarcoating things, it might be that they simply don't want to come across as harsh or too blunt. I think it's good to have some amount of tact when communicating with others. Some people also just don't like to make waves or come across as a thorn in someone's side as far as bringing up little things here and there.

    Nightfox

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  • From Knight@VERT/PHUNC to Nightfox on Tue Nov 4 15:14:23 2014
    Re: PacNW Passive-Aggressiveness
    By: Nightfox to Khelair on Mon Nov 03 2014 08:32 pm

    I've always thought there can be good & bad people everywhere, people who will annoy you everywhere, etc.. I'm not sure I can say I've seen much passive-aggressiveness in the area, but perhaps that may be due to where I've spent most of my time. I think how you react to peoples' communications is important too. If people come across as sugarcoating things, it might be that they simply don't want to come across as harsh or too blunt. I think it's good to have some amount of tact when
    communicating with others. Some people also just don't like to make waves or come across as a thorn in someone's side as far as bringing up little things here and there.

    I agree. Lots of varied personalities these days. I think being polite has gone
    the way of the dodo bird, to use a worn cliche... at least in my area, the SF Bay Area. For the last 5-10 years, we've been surrounded by rude and crazy neighbors, who can't even say hello or hold a polite conversation. They find any reason to complain, making it that much harder to have compassion for them if issues were to come up in our neighborhood. I'd help them no matter what, since that's how I am, but I would silently hold no regard for them.

    It's not like we haven't tried. The problem is everyone is too blunt, too self-focused, and inconsiderate. When we first moved into this community we are
    in now for the last 2-3 years, we said hello to our neighbors and made an attempt to connect -- we failed. There's just too many weird personalities.

    One woman (who lives directly across from us) even yelled at me for something a
    previous tenant did. I swallowed it, and made an attempt to reconnect, and she kept up her attitude and anger.

    But as far as sugarcoating is concerned, I would wish they did more of that here. Everyone is far too blunt, far too cold. A few smiles and a hand shake would sure seem reasonable to me.

    There are limits of course. Creepy hyper-friendly people who snarl behind your back ("fake") are just as bad. But something in between is reasonable.

    Knight

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  • From Mro@VERT/BBSESINF to Knight on Tue Nov 4 19:30:13 2014
    Re: PacNW Passive-Aggressiveness
    By: Knight to Nightfox on Tue Nov 04 2014 03:14 pm

    self-focused, and inconsiderate. When we first moved into this community we are in now for the last 2-3 years, we said hello to our neighbors and made an attempt to connect -- we failed. There's just too many weird personalities.

    One woman (who lives directly across from us) even yelled at me for something a previous tenant did. I swallowed it, and made an attempt to reconnect, and she kept up her attitude and anger.

    But as far as sugarcoating is concerned, I would wish they did more of that


    i always say hi when i go past someone. at my job there's actually people that will look you in the eye when you say hi and they wont even respond. that's a bit weird. i give them 3 hi's and then they are banned from my hi's :D

    i do have someone who's a neighbor who is a bit weird and apparently tried to get information about me and wanted me to get him a job at where i worked(he had my employer confused).

    Then he was constantly approached me when he saw me
    and tried to talk. something about this guy i just didnt like so i've
    kept my distance. sure enough, later on i find out he's a big shit talker. he also has some criminal history and cant not leave the state.

    so i guess i'm friendly to a point. i'm not out to find new lifelong friends, though. i've got enough friends, i dont chat up people but i wont go out of my way to give someone a bad day about something stupid.
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Mro on Tue Nov 4 20:11:55 2014
    Re: PacNW Passive-Aggressiveness
    By: Mro to Knight on Tue Nov 04 2014 19:30:13

    i always say hi when i go past someone. at my job there's actually
    people that will look you in the eye when you say hi and they wont even respond. that's a bit weird. i give them 3 hi's and then they are
    banned from my hi's :D

    I tend to notice people and say hi when I walk by them too. One thing I find odd is when I happen to walk by someone going the other way who I know or is an acquaintence of mine and I say hi and they just keep looking forward and walking, apparently oblivious to anyone around them and not noticing that I said hi. Another thing I find slightly annoying is when I say "How are you?" and people don't answer and simply say "Hi". It seems a lot of people don't think of "How are you?" as a sincere question and consider it another form of "Hi".

    Nightfox

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  • From Mro@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Tue Nov 4 23:17:33 2014
    Re: PacNW Passive-Aggressiveness
    By: Nightfox to Mro on Tue Nov 04 2014 08:11 pm

    forward and walking, apparently oblivious to anyone around them and not noticing that I said hi. Another thing I find slightly annoying is when I say "How are you?" and people don't answer and simply say "Hi". It seems a lot of people don't think of "How are you?" as a sincere question and consider it another form of "Hi".


    well, i'm guilty of that. i used to answer 'shitty!' , but now i just say hi cause most people dont REALLY want to know how the other person is doing.
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  • From Knight@VERT/PHUNC to Mro on Tue Nov 4 23:00:13 2014
    Re: PacNW Passive-Aggressiveness
    By: Mro to Knight on Tue Nov 04 2014 07:30 pm

    i always say hi when i go past someone. at my job there's actually people that will look you in the eye when you say hi and they wont even respond. that's a bit weird. i give them 3 hi's and then they are banned from my hi's :D

    That happens to me sometimes too. Really weirds me out. I can't even imagine looking someone in the eye and ignoring them. These must be soul-less assholes.

    i do have someone who's a neighbor who is a bit weird and apparently tried to get information about me and wanted me to get him a job at where i worked(he had my employer confused).

    Yeah, that's weird.

    Then he was constantly approached me when he saw me
    and tried to talk. something about this guy i just didnt like so i've
    kept my distance. sure enough, later on i find out he's a big shit talker. he also has some criminal history and cant not leave the state.

    so i guess i'm friendly to a point. i'm not out to find new lifelong friends, though. i've got enough friends, i dont chat up people but i wont go out of my way to give someone a bad day about something stupid.

    Exactly. A lot of times I just want to get along with my day too, but it doesn't mean we can't say hello, etc.

    I live in douchebag central though.

    Knight

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  • From Khelair@VERT/TINFOIL to Nightfox on Wed Nov 5 05:56:23 2014
    Re: PacNW Passive-Aggressiveness
    By: Nightfox to Khelair on Mon Nov 03 2014 20:32:44

    I've always thought there can be good & bad people everywhere, people who will annoy you everywhere, etc.. I'm not sure I can say I've seen much passive-aggressiveness in the area, but perhaps that may be due to where I've spent most of my time. I think how you react to peoples' communications is important too. If people come across as sugarcoating things, it might be that they simply don't want to come across as harsh or too blunt. I think it's good to have some amount of tact when communicating with others. Some people also just don't like to make waves or come across as a thorn in someone's side as far as bringing up little things here and there.

    I agree completely on what you're saying here... There are definitely a mix of people everywhere.
    When I first moved to Portland, I was told by a whole lot of people, not just my roommate, to watch out for passive-aggressiveness. So maybe part of it is the fact that I'm projecting what I've expected to see, but I don't think that that's all of it. I've had people, at some points, bending over backwards to try to give the impression that has maybe been expected for best effect, only to find out that it's completely false once they're far enough away to feel safe voicing a sentiment that might be disappointing to someone. This has happened multiple times. I've never been anywhere in the country where it has been this prominent, and I've been on both borders, both coasts now, and quite a few places in between.
    You're absolutely right, as well, about tact, and the like. When it's carried out to the point where people are straight up lying and faking reactions in order to come across the way that goes over best socially, though, it's gone a little bit too far. I'd much prefer more forthright, direct, and honest communication, rather than theatrics that are designed to make the audience most happy.
    It wasn't just people that I know that've told me about these things, and/or corroborated such opinions. I've had a lot of people that I've met enough to chat about things with that've told me the same. One of the key places that they've mentioned it to me in has been racism; Portland loves to say how wonderful and self-fart-sniffingly perfect and tolerant it is, yet there's an undercurrent (and quite the history, as well) of racism underneath that just isn't voiced as loudly as other places. It's still quite evident in the actions that people take when not under direct scrutiny, though.

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  • From Khelair@VERT/TINFOIL to Knight on Wed Nov 5 06:02:23 2014
    Re: PacNW Passive-Aggressiveness
    By: Knight to Nightfox on Tue Nov 04 2014 15:14:23

    But as far as sugarcoating is concerned, I would wish they did more of that here. Everyone is far too blunt, far too cold. A few smiles and a hand shake would sure seem reasonable to me.

    See that was the very first thing that I noticed when I moved here... It's absolutely wonderful, just walking up the street in this place. I've never lived anywhere where 4 out of 5 people will make eye contact with you, maintain it, and give you a warm smile; one that almost always touches the eyes, even. Hell, random friendly discussions even pop up pretty often.
    I'm used to California (Sacramento) and Jersey; people's greetings usually having a 'fuck you' in them, and too much eye contact (sometimes any at all, at least in Sacramento) being met with an immediate challenge to a fight. I am most definitely glad to be away from that shit.

    There are limits of course. Creepy hyper-friendly people who snarl behind your back ("fake") are just as bad. But something in between is reasonable.


    That's the problem. The hyper-friendly people snarling behind the back are what I'm dealing with here right now. I might go into more detail later, but the very first date that I was on here was absolutely ridiculous with how false it turned out to be.
    I'm hoping to find that happy medium somewhere around here. It seems like there is still a much greater likelihood for finding something like that around here, as opposed to other places that I've been. None of the other places I've been in the USA have ever had the strength of the friendly polarity that this place has in order to balance out the assholicness, if you will. I think part of it is that I need to get out of this upper-middle-class neighborhood a go to a place a little more in touch with the people of walmart. I'm a bit out of my element, as sad as that may sound. :P

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Khelair on Wed Nov 5 20:33:41 2014
    Re: PacNW Passive-Aggressiveness
    By: Khelair to Nightfox on Wed Nov 05 2014 05:56:23

    quite a few places in between. You're absolutely right, as well, about
    tact, and the like. When it's carried out to the point where people are
    straight up lying and faking reactions in order to come across the way
    that goes over best socially, though, it's gone a little bit too far.

    That's true. Maybe I just haven't noticed it so much though.. Or maybe it's that I grew up in the area and I'm used to it? I dunno.. I can't say I have had the impression that a lot of people in the area that people around the area have been lying/faking just to come across more acceptable to me though.

    One of the key places that they've mentioned it to me in has been racism;
    Portland loves to say how wonderful and self-fart-sniffingly perfect and
    tolerant it is, yet there's an undercurrent (and quite the history, as
    well) of racism underneath that just isn't voiced as loudly as other
    places. It's still quite evident in the actions that people take when
    not under direct scrutiny, though.

    I've heard people say that, and I'm always surprised to hear people say it. I think there are racist people pretty much anywhere (including the NW area), but I suppose I've had the good fortune of not having known many racist people here (or maybe not many outwardly racist people). The northwest US is one of the more diverse places in the country, with people from all over the world. I feel like it's an everyday thing to see people from different places in the world out and about, and to hear various different languages spoken when you're out running errands & things. I've often had the impression that most people in the area are relatively tolerant. I'd be curious what part of town you're in (although you don't need to voice it publicly), as I suppose different areas in the region may be different.

    Nightfox

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  • From Khelair@VERT/TINFOIL to Nightfox on Thu Nov 6 11:21:14 2014
    Re: PacNW Passive-Aggressiveness
    By: Nightfox to Khelair on Wed Nov 05 2014 20:33:41

    That's true. Maybe I just haven't noticed it so much though.. Or maybe it's that I grew up in the area and I'm used to it? I dunno.. I can't say I have had the impression that a lot of people in the area that people around the area have been lying/faking just to come across more acceptable to me though.

    Maybe it does have something to do with the neighborhood, or maybe even the personalities that are corroborating my evidence (as well as my own). There's also the bit about how a couple of my data points are people that I've met doing online dating, which is usually a kind of exclusive subset of people that doesn't really give a good read on the whole population of an area.
    Anyway, one of the prime examples that I'm thinking of here is some neighbors that were getting internet service beamed to them from a couple of houses away, with custom configured equipment set up for it by aforementioned neighbor. The guy started noticing a massive drop on the bandwidth and general usage stats. Not to mention the fact that they hadn't been paying for a couple of months and were no longer responding to email or phone calls/texts with anything other than diversions, when bothering to respond at all. Finally one of the people in the same building actually took it upon herself to let this guy know that yeah, they went with another ISP, and _she_ actually went and got the equipment from them to give back to him because they were too conflict avoidant to deal with it, though there never would have been any conflict, from what I know of the dude.
    Now that alone doesn't mean anything, of course, but I'm having tons of personal experience that's going along with the general trend, though. The one thing that I might not be taking into account properly is my own somewhat brash, eccentric-as-hell personality, and that of my closest friend here. Maybe something in these personalities are being misinterpreted as a conflict potential thus driving people to avoid any sort of communication that might potentially end up in altercation. :P The first date that I had when I got here, though; that really left a horrible taste in my mouth.

    I've heard people say that, and I'm always surprised to hear people say it. I think there are racist people pretty much anywhere (including the NW area), but I suppose I've had the good fortune of not having known many racist people here (or maybe not many outwardly racist people). The northwest US is one of the more diverse places in the country, with people from all over the world. I feel like it's an everyday thing to see people from different places in the world out and about, and to hear various different languages spoken when you're out running errands & things. I've often had the impression that most people in the area are relatively tolerant. I'd be curious what part of town you're in (although you don't need to voice it publicly), as I suppose different areas in the region may be different.

    Well, to be honest, I've gotten a lot more sensitive to this issue since I've got a mixed race son. I was extremely ignorant about the whole issue, growing up in North Dakota, for a very long time. It wasn't until I started dating on the east coast, where I first got some contrast to my pale ass, where I really started to learn more on the issue, down to how it personally affects individuals. I mean there was basically just no chance to learn about anything of the sort in NoDak, unless it was about native american culture. Most of the communities I lived in there, to that point, however, were biased to the point where the natives and the whites wouldn't mix, except a bit at school. There were never really any strong friendships that crossed the lines.
    Anyway, what I've seen here is a hell of a lot better than the blatant racism that I've seen in other areas of the country, I'll give it that for sure. The history that I'm talking about, though, is of the night curfews for 'people of color', and other unjust laws like that. There are also other issues, one concerning a NE neighborhood; I really don't remember the details well enough to be able to speak on it so much. The neighborhood that I'm in, though (Outer Buckman, if you feel like taking a peek-- it's just across the river from the inner city-- kind of a yuppie neighborhood, at least compared to what I'm used to) had a history of being mixed. As property values went up, and the previous tenants gentrified, though, they were pushed out by income disparity due to the difference in the wages they were paid (primarily focusing on the black population). There is a rift going on about that right now, and I believe it's quoted pretty heavily in that NE neighborhood that I was referencing before, as well, because the same thing might be starting to happen there.
    Either way, I'm planning on moving to that area as soon as I've got a choice in where I end up, because I don't want my son to feel so alone, and that community seems to be a lot more outspoken about what's going on in the cranium at any given point. ;) I respect that quality more than I can say, being raised so isolated as I was. If it wasn't for blatant feedback, I'd never have even gotten as good as I am now at social interactions, and I'm hardly a friggin' butterfly at this stage. Being raised in a doomsday, isolationist cult will tend to do that to a person. :P

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Khelair on Thu Nov 6 22:10:45 2014
    Re: PacNW Passive-Aggressiveness
    By: Khelair to Nightfox on Thu Nov 06 2014 11:21:14

    Maybe it does have something to do with the neighborhood, or maybe even
    the personalities that are corroborating my evidence (as well as my
    own). There's also the bit about how a couple of my data points are
    people that I've met doing online dating, which is usually a kind of
    exclusive subset of people that doesn't really give a good read on the
    whole population of an area.

    I've done online dating, and I've actually had pretty good luck with it. Most of them didn't last more than a few dates, but nonetheless they were still generally good people; it just tended not to work out. I'm in a good relationship right now with someone I met online, so it can work out.

    I've heard people say that, and I'm always surprised to hear people
    say it. I think there are racist people pretty much anywhere
    (including the NW area), but I suppose I've had the good fortune of
    not having known many racist people here (or maybe not many
    outwardly racist people). The northwest US is one of the more
    diverse places in the country, with people from all over the world.

    Well, to be honest, I've gotten a lot more sensitive to this issue since
    I've got a mixed race son. I was extremely ignorant about the whole
    issue, growing up in North Dakota, for a very long time. It wasn't

    I have a mixed race relative in my family, from a mixed race marriage. I can't think of a time when racism has ever been an issue due to that. Again, could just be a difference in the area we live in.. not sure.

    until I started dating on the east coast, where I first got some
    contrast to my pale ass, where I really started to learn more on the
    issue, down to how it personally affects individuals. I mean there was
    basically just no chance to learn about anything of the sort in NoDak,
    unless it was about native american culture. Most of the communities I
    lived in there, to that point, however, were biased to the point where
    the natives and the whites wouldn't mix, except a bit at school. There
    were never really any strong friendships that crossed the lines.
    Anyway, what I've seen here is a hell of a lot better than the blatant
    racism that I've seen in other areas of the country, I'll give it that
    for sure.

    I agree. I've visited a few other places in the US, and there seems to be more blatant racism in other parts of the country - and that's one of the reasons why I probably wouldn't want to live there.

    The history that I'm talking about, though, is of the night
    curfews for 'people of color', and other unjust laws like that.

    Are you talking about NW Oregon? I grew up in this area and I haven't heard of any such laws like that in this area. I'd honestly be surprised to hear about that being true.

    black population). There is a rift going on about that right now, and I
    believe it's quoted pretty heavily in that NE neighborhood that I was
    referencing before, as well, because the same thing might be starting to
    happen there. Either way, I'm planning on moving to that area as soon as
    I've got a choice in where I end up, because I don't want my son to feel
    so alone, and that community seems to be a lot more outspoken about
    what's going on in the cranium at any given point. ;) I respect that

    I've often heard about the NE area being a more high-crime area, particularly out toward Gresham. I'm not sure if I'd feel good about living there.. I've always lived on the west side & the western suburbs, which I feel like are nicer areas.

    Nightfox

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  • From Khelair@VERT/TINFOIL to Nightfox on Sat Nov 8 15:45:14 2014
    Re: PacNW Passive-Aggressiveness
    By: Nightfox to Khelair on Thu Nov 06 2014 22:10:45

    I've done online dating, and I've actually had pretty good luck with it. Most of them didn't last more than a few dates, but nonetheless they were still generally good people; it just tended not to work out. I'm in a good relationship right now with someone I met online, so it can work out.

    I've had a couple of matches that've lasted awhile, but that's been spread out over quite a few years' time. I'm starting to think that it's just a lot better to meet people in person, though the last woman that I went out on a few dates with from IRL meeting ended up being far too ambitious to have time for a relationship. Then again, I'm really isolated here, still, so I'll probably not end up stopping browsing okcupid or pof any time soon. :)

    I have a mixed race relative in my family, from a mixed race marriage. I can't think of a time when racism has ever been an issue due to that. Again, could just be a difference in the area we live in.. not sure.

    God the first time that my parents found out that I was in a relationship with someone who wasn't white they laughed. Like, it was so impossible in their mindset that they literally thought that I was just trying to mess with their heads or something. Yet, they weren't 'racist' in their own definition. They also felt that people of different ethnicities shouldn't be involved as more than friends because of 'the problems that it caused', though, when pressed for definition of these problems, they never were able to get more specific than that. I suspect the problems it caused were that it seemed uncouth or gross to them because they were a lot more racist than they were letting on.

    I agree. I've visited a few other places in the US, and there seems to be more blatant racism in other parts of the country - and that's one of the reasons why I probably wouldn't want to live there.

    Yeah, that shit sucks, for sure. I really have to say, though, I appreciate a good 'fuck you' to the face more than I appreciate someone who smiles, acts like they want to be friends, and then talks shit behind closed doors. I just ran into another issue where something based on miscommunication happened. Er, not miscommunication, more like complete lack of being forthright with communication that was important enough to drive a wedge between people when it wasn't spoken.
    Kind of puts a person into their place, gives a little bit of a reality check on where they really stand with someone else, when they make a faux pas that is worth gossipping about, and avoiding a person over, but not saying to their face. I don't want 'friends' like that, anyway. :P

    Are you talking about NW Oregon? I grew up in this area and I haven't heard of any such laws like that in this area. I'd honestly be surprised to hear about that being true.

    Lake Oswego, suburb of Portland. Until 1963 they had enforced sunset laws; ie, if you're a person of color, don't let the sun set while you're out and about or you're subject to arrest.
    http://everything2.com/title/Lake+Oswego%252C+Oregon is just the first hit I found doing a web search for references. There are plenty of others.

    I've often heard about the NE area being a more high-crime area, particularly out toward Gresham. I'm not sure if I'd feel good about living there.. I've always lived on the west side & the western suburbs, which I feel like are nicer areas.

    I don't mind a little bit of crime; I keep a pretty safe household, and I'm usually prepared when I'm living in a neighborhood like that. I'm not going to go into one that's as bad as the one that I came from in Bismarck, in the projects (which, as far as I can tell, would be anything south of Burnside and east beyond 82nd), but I'll take a little bit more crime for an area that I can afford and an area where people will say what they think to a person's face, instead of getting high on their own methane.
    I don't know, I'm still rolling around a bit from the culture clash, I suspect. That and having so many failed connections while trying to meet new people here; my bitterness is no doubt trickling into things where I should probably be keeping more of an open mind. :)
    I haven't spent much time in Gresham. Just helped a woman that I met move out of that area, into Milwaukee, though. Those neighborhoods do, if nothing else, seem to have a higher quotient of people on the street that are obviously experiencing some serious chemical alterations of perception. Heh.

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  • From Froggyme@VERT/LILLYPAD to Khelair on Sat Nov 8 21:11:19 2014
    Re: PacNW Passive-Aggressiveness
    By: Khelair to Knight on Wed Nov 05 2014 06:02 am

    pretty often. I'm used to California (Sacramento) and Jersey; people's greetings usually having a 'fuck you' in them, and too much eye contact (sometimes any at all, at least in Sacramento) being met with an
    immediate challenge to a fight. I am most definitely glad to be away

    They're like dogs.

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Khelair on Sun Nov 9 01:00:23 2014
    Re: PacNW Passive-Aggressiveness
    By: Khelair to Nightfox on Sat Nov 08 2014 15:45:14

    I've done online dating, and I've actually had pretty good luck with
    it. Most of them didn't last more than a few dates, but nonetheless

    I've had a couple of matches that've lasted awhile, but that's been
    spread out over quite a few years' time. I'm starting to think that
    it's just a lot better to meet people in person, though the last woman
    that I went out on a few dates with from IRL meeting ended up being far
    too ambitious to have time for a relationship. Then again, I'm really
    isolated here, still, so I'll probably not end up stopping browsing
    okcupid or pof any time soon. :)

    One thing I like about online dating is that you get to see some information about someone (at least, what's in their profile) before meeting them. I think that has some advantages over randomly meeting someone in person who you don't know anything about, then taking some time & effort just to know the basics and find out you might not be compatible. When you're able to see someone's basic information from their profile, it can be a little easier to tell whether they might be a good match for you or not.

    God the first time that my parents found out that I was in a
    relationship with someone who wasn't white they laughed. Like, it was
    so impossible in their mindset that they literally thought that I was
    just trying to mess with their heads or something. Yet, they weren't 'racist' in their own definition. They also felt that people of
    different ethnicities shouldn't be involved as more than friends because of 'the problems that it caused', though, when pressed for definition of these problems, they never were able to get more specific than that.

    I don't really understand that type of thinking in people. And of course, as you said, people usually can't come up with specific reasoning when you press them for it.
    I've visited Brazil a few times, and one thing I noticed there is that there doesn't seem to be much (if any) vibe of racism there at all. There are many people in Brazil who are mixed race (and mixed many generations back as well), usually a combination of black, white, and native. It seems common for people there who are white, black, and mixed race to all intermix and have friends of color. It felt like race is really a non-issue. I thought it was refreshing to not have to think about that, whereas in some parts of the US, I sometimes hear people make comments about peoples' color as if it matters somehow.

    Yeah, that shit sucks, for sure. I really have to say, though, I appreciate a good 'fuck you' to the face more than I appreciate someone who smiles, acts like they want to be friends, and then talks shit
    behind closed doors.

    I know what you're saying, and I agree. I feel lucky that I haven't really known many people like that (at least, not that I've been able to tell).

    Are you talking about NW Oregon? I grew up in this area and I
    haven't heard of any such laws like that in this area. I'd honestly
    be surprised to hear about that being true.

    Lake Oswego, suburb of Portland. Until 1963 they had enforced sunset laws; ie, if you're a person of color, don't let the sun set while
    you're out and about or you're subject to arrest.
    http://everything2.com/title/Lake+Oswego%252C+Oregon is just the first
    hit I found doing a web search for references. There are plenty of
    others.

    Ah, I see. I thought you meant that law was in effect now or recently. I could understand laws like that being in place all over the US in the early 1960s though, since that was the norm back then, and social reforms were just starting to take place back then. So I wouldn't think it was just the pacific NW. However, I have heard by word of mouth that Lake Oswego tends to have a mostly white population. I grew up in Beaverton, which is where I'm currently living now (more toward the Hillsboro/Aloha side now), and I've always thought it's a nice area with a fairly good mix of people.

    Nightfox

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  • From Khelair@VERT/TINFOIL to Froggyme on Sat Nov 8 23:41:10 2014
    Re: PacNW Passive-Aggressiveness
    By: Froggyme to Khelair on Sat Nov 08 2014 21:11:19

    They're like dogs.

    True dat. I'm so frigging glad to be away from that shite for the most part. I've got plenty of scars to remember the closed minds and inbred violence with.

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  • From Khelair@VERT/TINFOIL to Nightfox on Sun Nov 9 22:24:50 2014
    Re: PacNW Passive-Aggressiveness
    By: Nightfox to Khelair on Sun Nov 09 2014 01:00:23

    One thing I like about online dating is that you get to see some information about someone (at least, what's in their profile) before meeting them. I think that has some advantages over randomly meeting someone in person who you don't know anything about, then taking some time & effort just to know the basics and find out you might not be compatible. When you're able to see someone's basic information from their profile, it can be a little easier to tell whether they might be a good match for you or not.

    Yeah I'm pretty big on that, also. Unfortunately, the feedback that I've heard from a large amount of the women, and a few of the fellow males, seems to indicate that most people go into online dating the same way that they went into the internet in general after the WWW was developed... They just jump right in with a 'lol hehe' and try to minimize anything they do with the keyboard.
    All of the decent experiences that I've had with online dating have involved the potential for verbosity that exists there. It kind of gives a chance to look beyond the visual stereotype, whatever it might be, that might not ordinarily exist, too... Sometimes I think that some might make the unqualified judgement on someone that they're not deep enough to be a potential mate, just based on something like the shoes they're wearing, you know? When important qualities are hilighted as such in text, though, you get to see what they think is important about his/her-self up front.
    Kind of pisses me off when people that are on such kinds of sites are like "Oh, that's too much to tell a stranger!" now that I think about it. Seriously, people...

    I don't really understand that type of thinking in people. And of course, as you said, people usually can't come up with specific reasoning when you press them for it.

    Well I'm sure that, in at least a portion of those people, there _are_ lines of specific reasoning... It's just that those lines of reasoning are probably beyond what a lot of people want disclosed by self-admission. It's a shame that more people don't use such self-consciousness about certain characteristics of their own to re-evaluate their own behavior and methods of thinking, though. I'll never fail to be amazed at how high a percentage of people can say "Wow, yeah, that's fucked up," about an activity or behavior that they engage in frequently, and go to the effort to conceal it, at times even from his/her self, but not even entertaining the thought about trying to change what is obviously a detrimental quality on their own parts... Pain feels much better to bury, but it's oftentimes an indicator of something that needs to change, in order to have a more peaceful and rewarding life from that point on.

    I've visited Brazil a few times, and one thing I noticed there is that there doesn't seem to be much (if any) vibe of racism there at all. There are many people in Brazil who are mixed race (and mixed many generations back as well), usually a combination of black, white, and native. It seems common for people there who are white, black, and mixed race to all intermix and have friends of color. It felt like race is really a non-issue. I thought it was refreshing to not have to think about that, whereas in some parts of the US, I sometimes hear people make comments about peoples' color as if it matters somehow.

    That's awesome. I haven't been to South America yet, and I am most certainly jealous. I noticed some areas in Europe that seemed a little bit like this, though probably not to the extent that you noted in Brasil. I found it very liberating, as well; I hope to spend a decent amount of time in a country like that at some point in my future. ;)

    Ah, I see. I thought you meant that law was in effect now or recently. I could understand laws like that being in place all over the US in the early 1960s though, since that was the norm back then, and social reforms were just starting to take place back then. So I wouldn't think it was just the pacific NW. However, I have heard by word of mouth that Lake Oswego tends to have a mostly white population. I grew up in Beaverton, which is where I'm currently living now (more toward the Hillsboro/Aloha side now), and I've always thought it's a nice area with a fairly good mix of people.

    Yeah, most of what I've heard is rumor-based (some verified via web searches) through a transplant, though he's been here for over 7 years now, though...
    Alas, sleep comes for me. I've got more to say, but I'm getting the chameleon eyes that are wandering in different directions at the same time. Heh.
    G'night.

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  • From Knight@VERT/PHUNC to Nightfox on Mon Nov 10 07:55:51 2014
    Re: PacNW Passive-Aggressiveness
    By: Nightfox to Khelair on Sun Nov 09 2014 01:00 am

    Ah, I see. I thought you meant that law was in effect now or recently. I could understand laws like that being in place all over the US in the early 1960s though, since that was the norm back then, and social reforms were just starting to take place back then. So I wouldn't think it was just the pacific NW. However, I have heard by word of mouth that Lake Oswego tends to have a mostly white population. I grew up in Beaverton, which is where I'm currently living now (more toward the Hillsboro/Aloha side now), and I've always thought it's a nice area with a fairly good mix of people.

    I got up to Beaverton once a year or so to visit family up there in Beaverton and Portland. Coming from the San Francisco Bay Area where it is very mixed racially and culturally, it feels very white in Beaverton. I've definitely heard some statements up there in my times visiting from random people about other races. But, I've heard that everywhere too.

    Knight

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Knight on Mon Nov 10 21:09:00 2014
    Re: PacNW Passive-Aggressiveness
    By: Knight to Nightfox on Mon Nov 10 2014 07:55:51

    population. I grew up in Beaverton, which is where I'm currently
    living now (more toward the Hillsboro/Aloha side now), and I've always
    thought it's a nice area with a fairly good mix of people.

    I got up to Beaverton once a year or so to visit family up there in Beaverton and Portland. Coming from the San Francisco Bay Area where it is very mixed racially and culturally, it feels very white in Beaverton. I've definitely heard some statements up there in my times visiting from random people about other races. But, I've heard that everywhere too.

    From what I've heard, I can see how San Francisco would have a bigger mix of people. I see a mix of people all the time in the Beaverton area though. I've seen places that are far less mixed too - I have family in Missouri that I visit from time to time, and it seems like a mainly white population there. There are other places in Oregon that have less of a mix than the Portland/Beaverton area too - I lived in Bend, Oregon for about a year in 2008 and the population seemed mainly white there as well.

    Nightfox

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  • From Heliarc@VERT/HAVENS to Khelair on Mon Nov 10 14:49:47 2014
    Re: PacNW Passive-Aggressiveness
    By: Khelair to Nightfox on Sun Nov 09 2014 10:24 pm

    Is there anyone you approve of in this world?

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  • From The Curmudgeon@VERT/TCP to Heliarc on Wed Nov 12 15:44:42 2014
    For reasons unknown to us Heliarc said thus to Khelair:

    Is there anyone you approve of in this world?

    My guess is himself... he's a legend in his own mind. :)

    \\\ ///
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    | | | | The Curmudgeon | | | |
    | | | | | | | | | | | |
    +--------------------------Ooooo--------------+
    ooooO ( )
    ghintz@itctel.com ( ) ) /
    \ ( (_/
    telnet curmudge.hopto.org \_) curmudge.no-ip.org

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  • From Khelair@VERT/TINFOIL to Heliarc on Wed Nov 12 19:51:33 2014
    Re: PacNW Passive-Aggressiveness
    By: Heliarc to Khelair on Mon Nov 10 2014 14:49:47

    Is there anyone you approve of in this world?

    Ghandi.

    Certainly nobody with unquestioned American values, though.


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  • From Opie@VERT/CRAZYW to The Curmudgeon on Sat Mar 28 00:13:18 2015
    Re: PacNW Passive-Aggressiveness
    By: The Curmudgeon to Access Denied on Tue Nov 18 2014 02:21:51

    For reasons unknown to us Access Denied said thus to The Curmudgeon:

    Diplomats , however, have a far different agenda and not
    always in the best interest of either country. :)

    That's when we call up 'Atlas Corporation' and have them take
    care of it!

    Yeah, sounds like a plan to me. :)

    * Joking reference from the latest Call of Duty: Advanced
    Warfare game, is all. Don't take it seriously. :)

    I didn't. :) Believe it or not I do have a sense of humor.... err.. sometimes. <g>




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