Has anyone here tried using any of the current crop of BBS software (Synchronet/Mystic/???) as a packet radio BBS? I'm currently trying to figure out how much it's possible to strip down mystic to make it work
at 1200bps (on a good day) w/o any ANSI (or other screen control code) support.
Avon wrote to Lars Kellogg-Stedman <=-
I also think doing work on a BBS theme that is ASCII only menus and stripped down to the main things you would want to access over the air (main menu, message menu, login, logoff) would be the way to go.
Avon wrote to Lars Kellogg-Stedman <=-
I also think doing work on a BBS theme that is ASCII only menus and stripped down to the main things you would want to access over the air (main menu, message menu, login, logoff) would be the way to go.
One of the limitations I'm running into is that BBS software really
likes "hotkeys" (e.g, prompt responses that don't require a
carriage return). This is particularly problematic with Synchronet's backspace detection; using a typical ax.25 terminal session, there's no way to respond appropriately because text isn't sent to the remote until
after pressing "return", and things like backspace/delete are never
sent.
figure out how much it's possible to strip down mystic to make it wor at 1200bps (on a good day) w/o any ANSI (or other screen control code
I know this one is old but did you have any luck? I want to get my
mystic board up
I'd like to hear more about this also! I've been trying to setup a packet station recently, with the end goal of using Mystic as the BBS.
You certainly can strip Mystic down to bare essentials -- for instance, just setting the default emulation for all users to ASCII will strip all the color out. Then you can chop out a lot of menu items, and shorten up the text strings and you're left with a very minimal package.
I hope to get LinBPQ up and running on an RPi 3 to establish the packet node, and configure it to route traffic to Mystic via telnet. I'm going
to try to make some inroads with this over the weekend. Gonna be hard to test because I don't know anyone in my area that does packet anymore.
-ZR
I'd like to hear more about this also! I've been trying to setup a packet station recently, with the end goal of using Mystic as the BBS.
I have seen several videos on packet radio. The missing link is getting Mystic on the air. Might need to do some sort of pass through.
I have never understood why packet (or even split RTTY or something) combined with BBS didn't really take off on amateur radio. Or at least,
if it did then it didn't last and I don't get why. For me, combining
radio with low bandwidth interactive text base stuff seems like an ideal marriage.
Possibly it's because a lot of licenses don't allow you to operate equipment un-manned as it were, at least not without a variation?
Anyway, if you get something set up I'd love to see a video of it in action!
BobW
have to see. Packet radio seems more expensive that you would expect for an older tech. Been looking will share when I can
Well Right now I need the equipment :D
I do want to do some experiments with it and possible leave it up well have to see. Packet radio seems more expensive that you would expect
for an older tech. Been looking will share when I can
Packet radio seems more expensive that you would expect
have to see. Packet radio seems more expensive that you would expect
for an older tech. Been looking will share when I can
A soundcard interface on the other hand (like a SignaLink or whatever you prefer) is something worth having for many purposes and you can use it with Direwolf among others for packet.
It doesn't have to be. A Raspberry Pi, a cheap VHF mobile rig,
and a USB sound card will get you on the air. If you've already
got the rig, you can probably do it all for under $100; well
under that if you're OK with a soldering iron and don't mind
modding a cheap CM-108 or similar. If you've already got a
Raspberry Pi (or a computer you don't mind using for this other
wise) you're good to go.
Hi, Claw.
Yeah, welcome to amateur radio :) Feels we got the miniaturisation, power efficiency and jazzy features that the last 40 years of developments in electronics brought along but none of the economy.
Well... there are Baofengs now but a) the bigger boys will give you a wedgie if you say you have one, and b) the options soon disappear if you want HF kit.
BobW
Hi claw,
I've been recently playing with packet radio here, setting up a piBPQ
node running simultaneously with pi-star on my local rpi.
As a cheap TNC I used VPDIGI project -- just a cheap STM32 blue pill
(2$) and 8 resistors and 4 capacitors, 2 trims and 2 diodes. It connects to the radio mic/speaker and via usb to rpi (virtual serial port), or
you can use serial port instead.
My friend gave me a ready, driller board where you can place all the components and the device looks cool, which he ordered from some china workshop -- 4 pieces for around 10$. But it's not necessary as my other friend just soldered all the components directly to the stm32 board.
Anyway, it's working great both for aprs and packet radio.
73,
Rotorek
What if the radio it self says it support 9600 baud radio?
Re: Re: Packet BBS?
By: claw to Zero Reader on Tue Oct 01 2024 07:56:38
Hi, guys.
I have never understood why packet (or even split RTTY or something) combined with BBS didn't really take off on amateur radio. Or at least, if it did then it didn't last and I don't get why. For me, combining radio with low bandwidth interactive text base stuff seems like an ideal marriage.
Possibly it's because a lot of licenses don't allow you to operate equipment un-manned as it were, at least not without a variation?
Anyway, if you get something set up I'd love to see a video of it in action!
BobW
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In Southern Indiana, Louisville Kentucky area late 1970's - early 1980's there were RTTY BBS's (3or4) and one Packet BBS Station that we're on 2 Meters.
The Packet BBS Ham also operated that BBS on 20 Meters making it real nice seeing messages going to and from State to State in the USA.
On 03 Oct 2024, tenser said the following...
It doesn't have to be. A Raspberry Pi, a cheap VHF mobile rig,
and a USB sound card will get you on the air. If you've already
got the rig, you can probably do it all for under $100; well
under that if you're OK with a soldering iron and don't mind
modding a cheap CM-108 or similar. If you've already got a
Raspberry Pi (or a computer you don't mind using for this other
wise) you're good to go.
I have a few pi's sitting around so that sounds good. I just need to
mod a sound card then. This is to activate the transmit right?
Do you have a link to this project?
I think some Kenwood rigs and possibly others have a TNC capable of 9600 built in.
In other cases, it may have a data/AF-in port that bypasses the
microphone circuit, so you can plug in a TNC and not have its output mangled. Likewise the AF-out from that port should be independent of the volume dial and maybe some other audio-out controls.
If your radio has an accessory / data port, this is usually what you
want to hook your soundcard interface up to.
echicken
Sounds interesting - my first thought was your passwords must go in the clear (unless there's some exception for challenge based
authentication?) however I suppose these days you could just use Google Authenticator or something to generate one time keys rather than using passwords. Good old 1 factor authentication :)
BobW
I have a few pi's sitting around so that sounds good. I just need to mod a sound card then. This is to activate the transmit right?Yup, that's right: most of the CM-108 mods just use a spare pin
for PTT. Or you could get something like a DigiRig Mobile (which
is what I'm using for both APRS and plain ol' AX.25).
Sure I have: https://sq8l.pzk.pl/index.php/vp-digi-cheap-and-functional-aprs-digipeater troller-with-kiss-modem/
This is the original page, then there's a link to a github project where the most recent info is.
Rotorek
Sounds interesting - my first thought was your passwords must go in the clear (unless there's some exception for challenge based authentication?)
however I suppose these days you could just use Google Authenticator or something to generate one time keys rather than using passwords. Good old
Sounds interesting - my first thought was your passwords must go in the clear (unless there's some exception for challenge based
authentication?) however I suppose these days you could just use Google Authenticator or something to generate one time keys rather than using passwords. Good old 1 factor authentication :)
On 04 Oct 2024, tenser said the following...
I have a few pi's sitting around so that sounds good. I just ne mod a sound card then. This is to activate the transmit right?Yup, that's right: most of the CM-108 mods just use a spare pin
for PTT. Or you could get something like a DigiRig Mobile (which
is what I'm using for both APRS and plain ol' AX.25).
Can you provide a link to your recommended DigiRig?
Ideally it'd be something that could work independent of the internet, even with a hardware dongle generating keys.
This being ham radio it's just trusted that the "from" callsign in the packet header belongs to the person who sent the packet. Of course that makes it very easy to impersonate somebody, but it's just typical quaintness for the hobby.
Some folks have used SSH with a null cipher over the air,
doing IP over AX.25. This gives you the authentication goodness,
and seems perfectly fine from a regulatory standpoint.
I suppose that works - do you then necessarily post under your callsign or does the BBS maintain a mapping from callsign to handle?
A soundcard interface on the other hand (like a SignaLink or whatever you prefer) is something worth having for many purposes and you can use it with Direwolf among others for packet.
I often think about revisiting packet radio for Synchronet, which I was really keen on 10+ years ago, but part of the problem is that there is virtually no audience for it. I may return to it anyway if it's easy to piggyback off of some Meshtastic stuff I've been working on here and
there.
I have never understood why packet (or even split RTTY or something) combined with BBS didn't really take off on amateur radio. Or at least,
if it did then it didn't last and I don't get why. For me, combining
radio with low bandwidth interactive text base stuff seems like an ideal marriage.
I've been thinking about tinkering with this setup as well. I currently have a digipeater/iGate set up with my SignaLink and Direwolf, but that doesn't see much use. (Far too rural.)
With the restrictions on symbol rate lifted in the States (in favor of a bandwidth limit), I'm wondering if there's a good opportunity for developing newer digital technologies on HF. I recognize there are
have a digipeater/iGate set up with my SignaLink and Direwolf, but th doesn't see much use. (Far too rural.)
You'd think that's the problem, but I live in Canada's largest city and packet activity here was pretty dismal the last time I checked. There's
a lot of dude-where's-my-car and weather station noise on APRS, but
that's about it. There's just not a lot of people making real use of it.
Perhaps doing something fun / interesting with it would bring people in. Well, maybe not so many in the rural spaces.
With the restrictions on symbol rate lifted in the States (in favor o bandwidth limit), I'm wondering if there's a good opportunity for developing newer digital technologies on HF. I recognize there are
I believe people are already working on this, though I haven't checked
in a while. Recent developments on HF and VHF/UHF were a bit disheartening.
There was "new packet radio" which seemed to require a hardware
modem/TNC or data radio, and only one person's implementation
available last time I looked.
VARA was getting attention, but IIRC is/was closed-source.
I'd like to think there's something better out there now. It'd be nice
to see something open and usable with a soundcard.
I haven't seen anything new. Have any links to share?
But if it's a data protocol... You are flying your bank account balance in the face of the whole purpose of amateur radio.
I'm 100% on board with that. I've had some high level thoughts and ideas to make more effective use of the available bandwidth, but I'm genuinely afraid someone will be like, "Dude, you know how sound and radio work,
wwiv used to have a user field for that.
Has anyone here tried using any of the current crop of BBS software (Synchronet/Mystic/???) as a packet radio BBS? I'm currently trying to figure out how much it's possible to strip down mystic to make it work
at 1200bps (on a good day) w/o any ANSI (or other screen control code) support.
Cheers,
VARA was getting attention, but IIRC is/was closed-source.
Re: Re: Packet BBS?
By: claw to echicken on Thu Oct 03 2024 07:54:27
I think some Kenwood rigs and possibly others have a TNC capable of 9600 built in.
In other cases, it may have a data/AF-in port that bypasses the microphone circuit, so you can plug in a TNC and not have its output mangled. Likewise the AF-out from that port should be independent of the volume dial and maybe some other audio-out controls.
If your radio has an accessory / data port, this is usually what you want to hook your soundcard interface up to.
echicken
electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
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Re: Re: Packet BBS?
By: Ed Vance to Bob Worm on Thu Oct 03 2024 13:31:03
Hi, Ed.
Sounds interesting - my first thought was your passwords must go in the clear (unless there's some exception for challenge based authentication?) however I suppose these days you could just use Google Authenticator or something to generate one time keys rather than using passwords. Good old 1 factor authentication :)
BobW
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* Origin: >>> Magnum BBS <<< - bbs.magnum.uk.net (21:1/205)
My setup for RTTY used a Demodulator circuit that was shown in the schematic for a RTTY Reader article in Popular Electronics Magazine, I used the headphone out jack on my 2M and on the HF rig(s) whichever one I was using at the time (had 10 Turn Potentiometers for adjusting Mark and Space tones for what rig was being used).
The Auto Frequency Shift Keyer was a 555 IC with two Pots for setting Mark and Space Tones. Each Pot was connected to one of a resistor in the 555 circuit.
A friend told me over the phone how to modify the standard 555 circuit to get it to switch tones. Output of the 555 went to the Mike jack of the rig being used
They were connected to a Netronics RTTY/ASCII Video board to a TV set through a RF Modulator so I could see what was Received.
A Netronics ASCII Keyboard I used for typing messages.
I also used a Cassette Tape Recorder to Save QSO's, and to sometimes play back the QSO through the Mike jack, if I wanted another Ham to see what I saved. Such as ARRL RTTY Broadcast I heard on the HF rig to pass it on the 2M RTTY Net.
Still have it, but no 2M rig now, and no antenna connection to the HF rig. BTW the HF setup was done using SSB mode.
Ed
Perhaps doing something fun / interesting with it would bring people in. Well, maybe not so many in the rural spaces.
Above where I wrote Auto, I meant to type Audio as in Audio Frequency Shift Keyer AFSK.
I dunno. I suppose one has to define "fun" and "interesting" here; I've
got a bunch of old systems set up and connected to AX.25: this made sense to me because systems designed in the teletype era of computing probably work pretty well in bandwidth constrained environments like amateur radio.
Literally no one other than me _ever_ uses them. It's a shame.
Oh well. At least I wrote up some details about my setup a while back: https://kz2x.radio
My setup for RTTY used a Demodulator circuit that was shown in the schematic for a RTTY Reader article in Popular Electronics Magazine, I used the
The Auto Frequency Shift Keyer was a 555 IC with two Pots for setting Mark and Space Tones. Each Pot was connected to one of a resistor in the 555 circuit.
They were connected to a Netronics RTTY/ASCII Video board to a TV set through a RF Modulator so I could see what was Received.
I also used a Cassette Tape Recorder to Save QSO's
Re: Re: Packet BBS?
By: Ed Vance to echicken on Mon Oct 07 2024 22:43:48
Hi, Ed.
All of that sounds super sexy. This is the kind of radio Macgyver-y of which I whole heartedly approve.
BobW
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Didn't You know that You are talking with a big LID?
To be honest since I tried to find the origins of that term and drew a blank I'm not entirely comfortable with using it :)
Nobody knows for sure where the name "ham" comes from either, and there
is a lot of speculation, much of it a bit silly.
Nobody knows for sure where the name "ham" comes from either, and there
is a lot of speculation, much of it a bit silly.
I like to think of the lid from a canned ham...
Re: Re: Packet BBS?
By: Ed Vance to Bob Worm on Wed Oct 09 2024 20:57:00
Hi, Ed.
To be honest since I tried to find the origins of that term and drew a blank I'm not entirely comfortable with using it :)
I wasn't being sarcastic, BTW, I love that kind of setup. One of my closest friends has an electrical engineering degree and worked for years in broadcast radio amongst other things. I usually like to share my ideas for little electronic projects with him and, if he says they sound awful, then I go ahead and build them.
BobW
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Were I to explore this in Synchronet again, an optional per-user callsign would be stored somewhere to achieve that mapping, or you could have a separate account for ham purposes. Not sure which; there are pros and cons to each.
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