On 2019-04-30, <nonlinear@tilde.institute> <nonlinear@tilde.institute> wrote:

What markup do you use, and why?

depends what you mean, for conversion, Markdown, of course

but for personal use I just format with custom ascii & utf-8
stuff which feels or looks nice enough, like
+-------------------+
| hello |
+-------------------+
| + structured list |
| +- subitem |
| |+-- sub-subitem |
| |+-- 2nd subitem |
| +- 2nd main item |
| +- another way |
+-------------------+
sometimes using the block and line drawing characters from utf8

* unordered list
- markdown style
+ etc

1) you
2. get
III the idea

sometimes up to making whole ASCII diagrams and stuff

why?

plaintext is still VERY versatile,
and when you get just basic formatting
(like markdown or terminal ANSI CSI SGR sequences), it gets even better...

speaking of SGR, the terminal formatting,
it's actually very easy, just 8 colors + bold/bright + dim
maybe underline & italics too if you're fancy
and THEN there's the advanced stuff...

I've been thinking of manually writing RTF documents, too, lol
RTF wasn't MEANT for human writing, but it's still very writable,
it looks a little like the bastard child of HTML and TeX ;)
or maybe just ol' troff family...
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On 2019-11-17, scudo@tilde.black <scudo@tilde.black> wrote:

On 2019-04-30, <nonlinear@tilde.institute> <nonlinear@tilde.institute> wrote:

What markup do you use, and why?

It depends on what I'm doing. My notes are in markdown as are my git
readmes. I write stories in plain text with fixed widths. I write my man
pages in *roff. For informal stuff I think markdown could be called my
default. It's easy to read & write and transform into other things. I
don't like wasting time thinking about my format while writing.
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On 2019-11-17, scudo@tilde.black <scudo@tilde.black> wrote:

On 2019-04-30, <nonlinear@tilde.institute> <nonlinear@tilde.institute> wrote:

What markup do you use, and why?

Depending on the context...

At work, all documentation is in markdown.

I have to say I don't like markdown. I was very enthusiast in the beginning, but then I cooled off when I noticed it cannot easily handle some corner cases (e.g. have you tried to put verbatim text under an ordered or unordered list?).

I've tried asciidoc. Lot of complexity, I use less than half of it.

I'm using *roff with the excellent mandoc macros for man-pages. I love manpages.

I've tried Perl's POD format, which is in my opinion the best compromise: as powerful as Markdown, supported by Github's document viewer, no ambiguities, and
produces really good manpages too! (But I'm still using mandoc for manpages:
I don't want to get rid of the semantic features).

When I've got no requirement, plain utf8 text (most often just ASCII, if I write
in English) does the job.


- dacav
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I mostly use plain text. Old HTML is a second choice. But I like markdown. Sadly I'm not so used to it yet.

--
https://tilde.club/~peron | gopher://tilde.club/1/~peron
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On Tue, 30 Apr 2019, nonlinear@tilde.institute wrote:

What markup do you use, and why?

For personal notes, I use US-ASCII or national-language ISO-8859-* [1] monospaced plain text. I also draw ASCII art/diagram in the notes
occasionally.

I use the same for email and newspost, except that I'd normally use UTF-8
in these cases if US-ASCII doesn't fit.

(I personally treat US-ASCII plain text an eternally-portable digitocalypse-ready document format)

Anyway...

For draft documents of non-serious writings-to-be-published
(e.g. blog post, article), I normally write in Markdown-
the *original Markdown*. [2]

However, for seriously-formatted document for web viewing (including some software documentation I release), I write HTML4 directly. [2]

For even more serious technical document with lots of internal referencing,
and multiple-format typesetting output (e.g. web+print),
I use DocBook XML. [2]

I also dab in Troff, but only for writing command line software
documentation (a la man pages) with man macro set.

For writing out non-complicated tabular information, I use CSV.

I'd use RTF as a word processor exchange format, I don't really
write RTF directly by hand. I've also touched PostScript a bit,
but I normally just write a program to generate it.

The next ones I'm going to look into and try are plain TeX,
and likely also TeX with GNU TeXInfo macro set [3]
(for DocBook-like purpose).

For diagram markup, I'm considering looking into Pic- which was originally
used in combination with Troff, I suppose. (The other one I already know
is SVG- but I still rarely write it by hand)

Cheers for textual formats,
~xwindows

-----

[1] I like them due to the technical property of of 1 byte = 1 character.
[2] And I usually employ Brian Kernighan's `ed`-minded VCS-friendly
"semantic linefeed" rule in these cases too.
<https://rhodesmill.org/brandon/2012/one-sentence-per-line/>
[3] For several years that I have to live a semi-offline life
with intermittent Internet connection,
I have come to appreciate GNU Info a lot, as on-the-go
technical manual bookshelf that don't need Internet
or even anything graphics to browse, view, and search.
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Cheers for textual formats,

Forever long life to text!

On 2020-11-22, xwindows <xwindows@tilde.club> wrote:

[3] For several years that I have to live a semi-offline life
with intermittent Internet connection,
I have come to appreciate GNU Info a lot, as on-the-go
technical manual bookshelf that don't need Internet
or even anything graphics to browse, view, and search.

Interesting point here: this is a great property of GNU Info and manpages!
I love being able to read my documentation without the need of a filthy browser! Software should always be distributed with a manual, as it used to be in old good times!

That said, I've got a real problem with navigating `info`, as a manpage/vi user.

This is eceptionally severe when it comes to GNU software, since the manpage is often disregarded in favour of the `info`! I "recently" discovered the `pinfo` program, which is basically a lynx wrapper over the info pages.

The navigation with lynx is not perfect either, but it has got at least a `-vikeys` mode that makes it bearable:

$ more $HOME/.lynx.cfg
INCLUDE:/etc/lynx/lynx.cfg
INFOSECS: NO_PAUSE
STARTFILE:~/lynx_bookmarks.html
FORCE_SSL_COOKIES_SECURE:TRUE
ACCEPT_ALL_COOKIES:TRUE
COOKIE_FILE:~/dev/null
COOKIE_SAVE_FILE:/dev/null
VIEWER:images/svg:ristretto %s
DEFAULT_KEYPAD_MODE:LINKS_AND_FIELDS_ARE_NUMBERED

VI_KEYS_ALWAYS_ON:TRUE

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On 2020-11-23, Dacav Doe <dacav@tilde.institute> wrote:

That said, I've got a real problem with navigating `info`, as a manpage/vi user.

[...]

The navigation with lynx is not perfect either, but it has got at least a `-vikeys` mode that makes it bearable:

GNU info has '--vi-keys'... I use that option all the time.
It makes the thing almost tolerable.

--
Dario Niedermann. Also on the Internet at:

gopher://darioniedermann.it/ <> https://www.darioniedermann.it/
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On 2020-12-01, Dario Niedermann <dnied@tilde.institute> wrote:

On 2020-11-23, Dacav Doe <dacav@tilde.institute> wrote:

That said, I've got a real problem with navigating `info`, as a manpage/vi >> user.

[...]

The navigation with lynx is not perfect either, but it has got at least a
`-vikeys` mode that makes it bearable:

GNU info has '--vi-keys'... I use that option all the time.
It makes the thing almost tolerable.

Hey! Thanks for sharing!

I've tried it and I was quite puzzled anyway (hjkl movements are granted, but how do I...?). I'll try to figure it out, maybe, although pinfo is already covering it for me.

If only I could have something like that for python documentation! For my day job I often need to search for python references, and sometimes you just *NEED* a browser.

EDIT: and no, not everything is available in pydoc! Many libraries have really poor pydocs and lots of useful information in javascript-bloated web pages. :( --- Synchronet 3.18b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

scudo@tilde.black writes:

On 2019-04-30, <nonlinear@tilde.institute> <nonlinear@tilde.institute> wrote:

What markup do you use, and why?

Nobody using Org(mode)?
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On 2020-12-05, yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> wrote:

scudo@tilde.black writes:

On 2019-04-30, <nonlinear@tilde.institute> <nonlinear@tilde.institute> wrote:

What markup do you use, and why?

Nobody using Org(mode)?

i was! it's very effective but i moved to md since i need to edit my
files from other devices that don't have Emacs on them :/ i lost some
good features in the process though...

--
~{,_,"> insidious LabRat
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f6k <f6k@huld.re> writes:

Nobody using Org(mode)?

i was! it's very effective but i moved to md since i need to edit my
files from other devices that don't have Emacs on them :/ i lost some
good features in the process though...

Always have a Pi0(-W) in your pocket?
Or a phone with termux + emacs?
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Le 12/12/2020 à 06:39, yeti a écrit :

f6k <f6k@huld.re> writes:

Nobody using Org(mode)?

i was! it's very effective but i moved to md since i need to edit my
files from other devices that don't have Emacs on them :/ i lost some
good features in the process though...

Always have a Pi0(-W) in your pocket?
Or a phone with termux + emacs?

You can use Orgzly too if you just want Org-mode without Emacs on Android:

https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.orgzly/

--
~lucidiot
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On 2020-12-14, lucidiot <lucidiot@tilde.town> wrote:

Le 12/12/2020 à 06:39, yeti a écrit :

f6k <f6k@huld.re> writes:

Nobody using Org(mode)?

i was! it's very effective but i moved to md since i need to edit my
files from other devices that don't have Emacs on them :/ i lost some
good features in the process though...

Always have a Pi0(-W) in your pocket?
Or a phone with termux + emacs?

You can use Orgzly too if you just want Org-mode without Emacs on Android:

https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.orgzly/

oh thank you very much, i will definitely five it a try!

-f6k

--
~{,_,"> insidious LabRat
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On 2020-12-12, yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> wrote:

f6k <f6k@huld.re> writes:

Nobody using Org(mode)?

i was! it's very effective but i moved to md since i need to edit my
files from other devices that don't have Emacs on them :/ i lost some
good features in the process though...

Always have a Pi0(-W) in your pocket?

yes, that would be the best!

Or a phone with termux + emacs?

i tried, but i didn't found it very handy. i really prefer the first
solution!

--
~{,_,"> insidious LabRat
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

Only 19 weeks late, buuuuut I very much enjoy Org!

I find that it's a really good text format for me personally because of
the billion things that it supports that let it fill a pretty
substantial number of niches for me!

At a surface level, it does a lot of the same things that markdown does,
so it's a pretty easy way to write basic formatted text with headings,
code, etc...

A little deeper in, it has really nice internal and external linking
that lets me reference a lot more things than I would with markdown, and
makes it easy to make a little kinda-wiki sorta thing

The comprehension of Org documents also means that it's easy to see an
overview of the document itself, since you can collapse branches of the document readily, and see a version of the document that is just the hierarchical headers in an outline.

Another nice thing for me is how Org document headers have togglable
statuses (Like TODO, DONE, CANCELLED, etc...), which makes it easy to
see the status of any header with very little effort when you look at
the outline of the entire document.

Org documents can even be added to an agenda to make certain statuses
and dates attached to headings across multiple documents appear in its
own dedicated autogenerated TODO list.

Another big thing for me is that the code environments in Org are live!
Which means that if I'm thinking about something that can be tested or demonstrated with code, I can easily write a block that actually
evaluates in the document itself, and the result will appear below. I
can even use these results in other code blocks!

The tables in Org are slick too, and support calc formulas, so the
document itself can act like a little turing-complete spreadsheet app selectively too, which is pretty gnarly!

It's also nice how there is Org support in a lot of multi-markup
environments like GitHub's document renders, and it's really nice how
you can export Org documents to HTML, PDF, ODT, or a bunch of other
kinds of documents!

I could probably write a book about the things that Org does for me
personally, hee.
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Arch <archenoth@tilde.town> writes:

Only 19 weeks late, buuuuut I very much enjoy Org!

We're sloooooow here...

Another big thing for me is that the code environments in Org are live!

That's my main reason for using org.

But I'm still only scratching the surface.

--
Take Back Control! — Mesh The Planet!
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yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> writes:

Arch <archenoth@tilde.town> writes:

Another big thing for me is that the code environments in Org are live!

That's my main reason for using org.

But I'm still only scratching the surface.

Oh! You're in for a treat~ Org is ridiculously cool!

What sorts of things do you do with them?
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Arch <archenoth@tilde.town> writes:

What sorts of things do you do with them?

https://yeti.tilde.institute/brain/B-at-Rosetta-Code/B-at-Rosetta-Code.html https://yeti.tilde.institute/brain/dc/dc.html http://yeti.freeshell.org/orgy/fastspin/fastspin.html https://yeti.tilde.institute/brain/Spin-at-Rosetta-Code/Spin-at-Rosetta-Code.html
...

...and more personal brainstorm, cheat sheet or bookmark like notes...

Just look into https://yeti.tilde.institute/brain/ directly.

That's my outsourced memory prothesis.

--
Take Back Control! — Mesh The Planet!
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

Ooh! These are pretty!

A lot of my literate documents are "playgrounds" where I can mess around
with session-based languages to figure things out.

There's something to be said about being able to record my entire train
of thought, and immediately test my assumptions as I come across them!

One of my favorite tricks with JVM based languages like Java is to embed
a Clojure nrepl into them and then hook into it with CIDER--because then
I can do all kinds of novel things with the runtime of the program as
it's running in a literate document.

The fact this all happens in a document makes it an almost-perfect setup
for dissecting things, and making those program do novel and ab lib
things.

I also find it really handy for learning things, since there's basically
no friction between taking notes and experimenting with the code within
them.
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Arch <archenoth@tilde.town> writes:

I also find it really handy for learning things, since there's basically
no friction between taking notes and experimenting with the code within
them.

(n+1) whiles ago I tried to "infect" some other microcontroller coding neighbours with orgmode. I expected everything from laughter to
shitstorm but got totally ignored there. Well, their problem! They
don't even want to see what they miss!

https://forums.parallax.com/discussion/comment/1479243/

--
Take Back Control! — Mesh The Planet!
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

The babel blocks make the difference.

And Emacs!

Starting with TeX and METAFONT, I tried literate programming several
times, but writing, leaving the editor, extracting the code and
extracting the doc with different tools, running the result, capturing
test runs, feeding them back into the text's source ... this all is
different using emacs/org/babel while most times not even having to
leave emacs in the complete work flow.

It is "applied text magic".

--
Take Back Control! — Mesh The Planet!
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

On Sun, 17 Nov 2019 22:31:21 -0000 (UTC)
scudo@tilde.black wrote:

On 2019-04-30, <nonlinear@tilde.institute> <nonlinear@tilde.institute> wrote:

What markup do you use, and why?

If i need to generate a beautiful PDF i use AsciidocFX, it uses the same syntax as markdown but has more extended styles and sections for writing books.
Why it's the best: https://developer.jboss.org/thread/196216

I actually use plain text for everything else.

What is more important is HOW i organize the complex nested information in plaintext: my outliners of choices are KeynoteNF, CherryTree, Jreepad.
Highly recommended to unify all your notes!
(also Todolist from abstractspoon.com for scheduling work because it's synched with the calendar, but i can't suggest Mindforger because it has too many options)


Of course troff/groff is the best, i love it but unfortunately i still haven't learned the syntax for complex columns and styles.
--
LM
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another org lover here! right now i can only do some basic things like
todos and export and tangle but i know it has a lot and yet i don't feel
like i need to rush at all!

I mainly use it as a bookmark file with links and some daily routines in
agenda file as timestamp. going slow but steady here!
--- Synchronet 3.19a-Linux NewsLink 1.113

another org lover here! right now i can only do some basic things like
todos and export and tangle but i know it has a lot and yet i don't feel
like i need to rush at all!

I mainly use it as a bookmark file with links and some daily routines in
agenda file as timestamp. going slow but steady here!

if you know any of simple but great things about org, do mention!
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Neodium <neo@neo.tld> writes:

if you know any of simple but great things about org, do mention!

I just found out how to get my SVG graphics generated by e.g. Org blocks
scaled right to fit the text width.

https://tilde.guru/~yeti/snippets.html#org0407fcd
--
Take Back Control! — Mesh The Planet!
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