Sad to see the python newsgroup has no messages! I started using Python
a few years ago after many years of using C for embedded devices. I
wanted to create simple GUIs that I could use to send commands to
embedded devices over serial or USB, and so I took a look around at what languages best fit the bill.

Python was what I decided on, and so I threw myself into Python 3
(completely avoiding Python 2 at all costs, as all the references I had available said it was on its way out and 3 was the future). Using it to
create GUIs with GTK isn't terribly difficult, but it does get quite
verbose when you have to specify each GUI element with an API call. And
so I gave Glade a try! For those of you who have never used GTK or
Glade, essentially Glade creates an XML file that describes the GUI you
want. It has a wonderful GUI builder interface, and is very easy to
use. For each widget in your app, you can easily add the name of a
function to attach to a signal that widget emits (e.g. on-button-click,
etc.). This speeds up GUI creation considerably. You just import a
library, add a line of code telling it to use the Glade-generated file,
and then you focus on what the app actually _does_ instead of messing
around with GUI stuff.

Recently, I started contributing to the GNOME project, and many of the
GNOME apps use Vala + Glade. Vala is a fascinating language. It has a
C#-like syntax, but gets cross-compiled to C before being compiled by
GCC. It integrates exceptionally well with GTK and the GObject system,
and it's absolutely perfect for writing GNOME apps. In some ways I find
it even faster and easier than Python, but Python's libraries for
low-level access to serial ports and USB devices is a bit easier to use
(and better documented!). The only downside is it's still a
(relatively) young language. The documentation is great, it's just a bit
tough to navigate at first. There's really only one or two books that
teach you the fundamentals from the group up. Most of what I've learned
about Vala was from reading source code of other apps, whereas with Python I started with a few excellent books (including the O'Reilly classic
Learning Python by Mark Lutz, which I still think is one of the best
Python books out there).

I also (sort of) started to learn Lua, which has a fascinating structure
and a really interesting table-based variable/class system. If you're
into Python, check Lua out. The syntax is quite different, and it's got
some quirks, but it's a really neat language also.

As Python is a scripting language, I often use it for boring or
repetitive tasks in the shell. For simpler stuff I will write zsh/bash
scripts, but Python is a much easier language to read and write.

So, how did YOU start using Python? What kind of things do you use it
for? What do you like/dislike about it? Have you moved on to other
languages, or is it still your primary programming language?

Cheers!
-amr
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Alexander <amrowsell@frozenelectronics.ca> writes:

Recently, I started contributing to the GNOME project, and many of the
GNOME apps use Vala + Glade. Vala is a fascinating language. It has a
C#-like syntax, but gets cross-compiled to C before being compiled by
GCC.

Does Vala still include Genie (Python like syntax instead of a C#ish
one)? Have you looked at it?
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Yup! I've never played around with it but Genie syntax is still
supported by the Vala compiler. Another neat feature of Vala... strange
to see a compiler that supports two completely different syntaxes for
the same "language" so to speak. Well, at least without having to
specify any command-line options when compiling. It just detects which
syntax you're using and "just works".

I do like the C# syntax because it is a bit more C-like and for GNOME
apps it's all they use, as far as I can see.

Have you ever played around with Vala, yeti?
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Alexander <amrowsell@frozenelectronics.ca> writes:

I do like the C# syntax because it is a bit more C-like and for GNOME
apps it's all they use, as far as I can see.

I never got used to C#.

Have you ever played around with Vala, yeti?

Looong ago I played a bit with Genie only, just ignoring Vala.
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In grad school, A best friend of mine said he was learning Python and I
checked it out and loved it! Before that I knew a little C, which I
didn't quite get at the point. I then learned TCL, which was the first language I felt practically useful, easy to learn and use.

It's been my hobby language and favorate for many years. My first job
was programming in C#. I still remember how much I hated C# then and
told all my coworkers how awesome Python is :) After many years of using
C# and Visual Studio, I absoluately love it and it changed my mindset a
lot.

Python's been my hobby language until recent years I started to use it
at work, mostly ML/data related stuff. Wrote more lines of Python than I
did in all the previous years... and that gets into the next point -
what I like/dislike about it -

What do you like/dislike about it?

To me the biggest problem is dynamic typing. For large scale project, refactoring huge Python code base is a pain. Code base
discovery/learning usually gets easier if you have a good IDE with
precise autocomplete and goto-definiation. For that, the best
experience I had is C#/VisualStudio, or Java/IntelliJ. For Python, I
tried all, but the best is PyCharm, however, due to its dynamic typing,
even with heavy Python3 type annotations, I still don't feel it's as
reliable and precise as C# or Java. So I have never been confident
refactoring Python code base.

What I love about Python, is its tool chain, and its interpreted
language. virtual env and pip is the best. For a new project, I would:

python3 -m venv .ve
. .ve/bin/activate
pip3 install ...

and off I go.

The fact Python is interpreted, so that you can `eval` a python file as
a way of configuration - this is something I appreciate more and more.
In most cases where you need an "embeded" language into your program,
this comes very handy. Many interpreted languages can do that. But
that's where I found compiled languages are lacking - they can't use
themselves embedded.

To me, Python's `subprocess` module is the best subprocess management
library across all the languages. Especially the `check_output()` really
gets it right, makes it a breeze to call external command or shell capabilities. Whenever I needed subprocess in other languages, I always
wanted to port Python's subprocess APIs to those languages :)

Have you moved on to other languages, or is it still your primary
programming language?

At work yes right now it's my primary language, but I hope it's not:) I
can't say it's my favorate still, but I use it a lot for hobby. I'm
still on the journey looking for "the one", but I feel this journey
won't end :)

so I threw myself into Python 3 (completely avoiding Python 2 at all
costs, as all the references I had available said it was on its way
out and 3 was the future).

Yeah I highly recommend Py3 over Py2, and try use `dataclasses` a lot
and a lot of type annotations:)
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Alexander <amrowsell@frozenelectronics.ca> writes:

I do like the C# syntax because it is a bit more C-like and for GNOME
apps it's all they use, as far as I can see.

Miguel de Icaza started Gnome, who also started mono which is .NET's
open source implementation. Mono is now Xamarin, and he brought it onto
all platforms iOS, android. Very interesting project!
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