I'm planning to play with Meshtastic[0].

According to their online map[1], I'm in a Meshtastic desert, but
networking over MT should work and that looks even more interesting to
me than using it for chatting.

If we don't see surprisingly much snow here, I should get the needed ingredients for two nodes in the 866MHz band before the weekend.

Maybe later I'll look for 433MHz hardware too for testing which one
allows a bigger radius.

____________

[0]: An open source, off-grid, decentralized, mesh network built to run
on affordable, low-power devices
<https://meshtastic.org>

[1]: MeshMap
<https://meshmap.net/>
--
I do not bite, I just want to play.
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

On Thu, 09 Jan 2025 10:50:41 +0042
yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> wrote:

I'm planning to play with Meshtastic[0].

Oh I have so many thoughts and ideas concerning Meshtastic but-

According to their online map[1], I'm in a Meshtastic desert, but
networking over MT should work and that looks even more interesting to
me than using it for chatting.

Like you I'm in a proverbial no-man's wasteland. I'm also thin on
funds, and have nobody in my immediate area that would be willing to
help with testing. So while I have ideas. I'm not in a position to test.

If we don't see surprisingly much snow here, I should get the needed ingredients for two nodes in the 866MHz band before the weekend.

Ah, European then. In america It's the 900mhz band. Recently had some
FCC doings where commercial encroachment threatened things but... I
haven't seen any major shakeups on our front. Hoping that stays that
way.

Maybe later I'll look for 433MHz hardware too for testing which one
allows a bigger radius.

Here in USA-Land that band is reserved for amateur and GSMR, and since
GSMR only allows pre-built units with very... VERY narrow definitions
for digital modes and no repeater use? That limits 433mhz to amateur
tinkering, at least over here.

THAT SAID.

Like you, I'm not terribly jazzed at the current 'use it to sms people' pattern. Granted that does have its place, especially in the off cited 'backpacking with a group' use case.

I'm more interested in its potential as a long link between wifi
islands in a grid down/Internet locked down scenario (be it the web has
become too infested with AI garbage, too ... Unfriendly. Too
commercialized and bloated. Whatever,) as I live in a simi-rural area
and most 'oh hey the internet got turned off/disaster has knocked the
net down/whatever' plans ever since the days of Arab Spring and the
Pirate Box and the infancy of mesh routing? Has depended on suburban if
not outright city densities to pass things along given the phone system
is.... not as conducive to networking as it used to be (In My Opinion.)

The Comms Channel made a rudimentary BBS that runs over Meshtastic. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLshzThxhw4O5qCWbdzADyx1ck_Y5z9s11 https://github.com/TheCommsChannel/TC2-BBS-mesh

See. I like this as a starting point. The BBS nodes can already act as
relays for each other.

The biggest issue is... Meshtastic runs up on the same issue that early
Fido Net did. Too many nodes cause everything to just... die, and I
doubt Fido's solution would work here as Fido was very... VERY
geographical, and to be blunt? any solution has to account for device
fluidity as it isn't the day where you have a lot of static location
personal computers or even 'hey we got lucky and our
school/business/whatever is letting us use a PDP/11 as a node in a
corner' and is instead a case of everyone having their most accessible interface device in their pocket.

I don't know how to solve this or even conceptualize a solution so the
actual smart people can code the solution. I'm just a hobbyist writer.

--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

Andrew Singleton <singletona082@ctrl-c.club> wrote:

yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> wrote:

Like you I'm in a proverbial no-man's wasteland. I'm also thin on
funds,

So far these seem to be the cheapest I found being available here
without import troubles:

<https://wiki.seeedstudio.com/wio_sx1262_with_xiao_esp32s3_kit_class/>

I only stumbled over them some days after I ordered two ...

<https://heltec.org/project/wifi-lora-32-v3/>

... which here cost twice (~€30) of the above.

and have nobody in my immediate area that would be willing to help
with testing.

That's why I'll start with two nodes.

So while I have ideas. I'm not in a position to test.

If we don't see surprisingly much snow here, I should get the needed
ingredients for two nodes in the 866MHz band before the weekend.

Snow rhymes to NO. I'm still waiting. OmmmMMMmmm...

Maybe later I'll look for 433MHz hardware too for testing which one
allows a bigger radius.

433MHz is allowed here too, but this region seems to prefer the other
range. If I get it right, here the allowed ERP in the 433er range is
lower than in the 868er one. Maybe by a factor that makes the shorter wavelength more attractive here? I'll see. I've two serial<->LoRa433 transceivers here collecting dust, which somewhen may change.

Like you, I'm not terribly jazzed at the current 'use it to sms
people' pattern. Granted that does have its place, especially in the
off cited 'backpacking with a group' use case.

I like the idea to get a digital successor to CB radio to get people
into using this, but short tweets ... eeeh that's Xcretions now ... are
not my preferred mode of communication.

But when chatting attracts the users, using other low bandwidth digital information systems over MT may become attractive to some of them too.

I'm more interested in its potential as a long link between wifi
islands in a grid down/Internet locked down scenario (be it the web has become too infested with AI garbage, too ... Unfriendly.

Unluckily long range only pairs with low bandwidth. I can live with old
modem speeds, but probably today's kids can not. And LoRa would not
even reach those old modem speeds. :-/

25 years ago I could get acceptable speeds from my 56k modem attached to
an ISDN phone line, but experiments over my current VoIP phone hardware
still only are on my to do list. I've two parallel usable lines and
have already conditioned my environment to use the numbers of my mobiles
only. So if I find neighbours in the radius of this national flatrate,
I've two flatrate phone channels to play with.

But first I'll play with MT or "naked LoRa".

Apropos WiFi islands. Are there commuters between them? Mobile nodes
to bridge that gap at least for mail, news and other file transfer based services are an idea I just cannot give up.

Make delay tolerant networking great again! ;-D
--
I do not bite, I just want to play.
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 06:09:12 +0042
yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> wrote:

Andrew Singleton <singletona082@ctrl-c.club> wrote:
yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> wrote:
So far these seem to be the cheapest I found being available here
without import troubles:

Appreciate it. I have other projects to do so it's also been a case of
just 'do I really have the mental anything to do this when I can do a
few other things? I'll just keep tabs because fascinating.'

I like the idea to get a digital successor to CB radio to get people
into using this, but short tweets ... eeeh that's Xcretions now ...
are not my preferred mode of communication.

Not what I'd like either, but-

But when chatting attracts the users, using other low bandwidth
digital information systems over MT may become attractive to some of
them too.

Part of explaining to the new generation why President Elmo's platform
is bad.... is giving them alternatives.

Unluckily long range only pairs with low bandwidth. I can live with
old modem speeds, but probably today's kids can not. And LoRa would
not even reach those old modem speeds. :-/

That's where my worry is as well. Current thinking is use paired
mesh/LoRa nodes to announce ahead of time 'OK these are the services
this island has on offer' along with maybe some automated weather
reporting or the like. Really the lack of bandwidth would've been
frustrating in the 90's. Now? I've found I get grumpy even at ISDN
speeds much less dialup or even BBS era speeds.

Apropos WiFi islands. Are there commuters between them? Mobile nodes
to bridge that gap at least for mail, news and other file transfer
based services are an idea I just cannot give up.

I'd considered the idea of the users themselves being the transport
layer. Abuse the fact they're taking networking hardware with storage
with them everywhere, but then you have to talk end users into 'OK here
is a segment of your phone's disk that will be eaten up with encrypted
data you can't peek at.'

I'm... just trying to figure a solution for networks that have no easy
way to bridge using full bandwidth.

Make delay tolerant networking great again! ;-D

In fairness. A 747 stuffed full of hard drives was used to shuttle data
around for a reason. There's a reason I mentioned Fido. Delay tolerant networking layer. Trouble is you have to be able to make those hops.
Fido worked because of the sacrosanct networking hour to pass data
along. How do you do that when the phones are all digital, wifi has at
best several hundred meters of range (and that's pushing it) and you
don't want to just go 'hey send it through The Clown'

--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

Soooo...

DHL's web parcel stalker claimed to have delivered my new toys Saturday 14:00/UTC and I noticed that 30 minutes later. Trying to get them
flashed had to wait until late evening.

Debian11 wasn't good enough to get that done, but I already had set up
laptops with Devuan5 (Debian12 minus Systemd) prepared, which I only
don't use because I like the keyboard of my oldtimer much more.[0]

Flashing form quasi-Debian12-without-systemd-fangs immediately worked
and after a lot of cursing installing the Meshtastic app via Fdroid on LineageOS did too.[1]

I got the two MT-nodes set up via that app using Bluetooth, sent some
silly test messages between them by always switching the one app between
the two MT nodes and maybe that was too confusing for Bluetooth, the
nodes, Lineageos or the app. It sometimes stopped to reconnect to the
nodes and I found no pattern in that behaviour.

After even more cursing about that swipeytappy app UI which looks more
like a massive single user dungeon to me, I managed to get both nodes
into my WLAN and from that point onwards I could access both via the web
UI they serve. Their firmware can be flashed with and without that
feature and I thought for the start it may be nicer to not need more
than a naked browser elsewhere instead of depending on getting that same
web UI via internet or needing to install it on every laptop I just am
using at one moment. That web UI looks less like a big puzzle to me,
YMMV.

Again I threw some test messages into the ether and it worked. Being
able to have two browser windows side by side, it was much easier.

____________

[0]: I'll upgrade (multihop to Devuan) that one too when all important
data has been transplanted to other systems. That's the one I need
to be stable for doing my bureaucracy, so better no experiments
without safety net.

[1]: A day later on the second swipeytappy it went smoother.
--
I do not bite, I just want to play.
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

Congratulations. Keep us posted on your experimentation.

--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

After some frustration with dropping connections I started to dig a bit
and found some hints (from 2025-01-10):

<https://github.com/meshtastic/firmware/discussions/4179#discussioncomment-11795314>
|
| Conclusions;
|
| * after WiFi drops the node works fine with LoRa, of course MQTT stops
| working and there is no way to remote manage it... it is strictly an
| WiFi issue
|
| * everything after FW 2.5.5 is broken, and the issue persists in latest
| stable releases (last 2.5.15)
|
| * it's hard to get some logs, because after few hours serial freezes,
| but from what I've seen the WiFi drops and there is no attempt to
| reconnect... just like that... I think it might be connected to low
| WiFi activity and/or some power saving features...
|
| ...so... for now I recommend sticking with FW 2.5.5.
.

This may or may not be related to the problems with my nodes and it has
been a long day already, up since 4am, so I won't try to download and
flash the mentioned version immediately.
--
1. Hitchhiker 25: (59) Scarcely pausing for breath, Vroomfondel shouted,
"We don't demand solid facts! What we demand is a total absence of solid facts. I demand that I may or may not be Vroomfondel!"
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

+ Yesterday I ordered two additional Heltec-V3 boards.

I thought being able to encircle bugs or my config problems by being
able to run two different releases on two two board groups with or
against another might help.

+ Yesterday, after ordering them, I got told that Meshtastic plans to
drop these boards.

I have not looked that up in their docs, MSGithub discussions or by
using any find-o-matic yet.

+ Yesterday I got pointed to the "Reticulum Network Stack" and started
to dig deeper.

<https://r8io.github.io/rns-presentations/source/001-introduction.html>

My first try to install it looked like a dependencies disaster, but
finally I managed to get it (and Nomadnet) installed on a RPi1[0].

<https://letsdecentralize.org/tutorials/nomadnet.html>

So far I can see that other nodes indeed do exist, but I see no
communication between them.[1]

- Yesterday I did not try to use a shell[2] over RNS or bring up a
network device[3] over this kind of ether.

- Yesterday then already had turned to today for ~6 hours and while
reading more about RNS might yield answers, sleep sure was more
important.


TBC.

____________

[0]: Sure I have enough fatter papoys, but I prefer to get an impression
about the behaviour of stuff on low end systems, so I often try new
stuff on e.g. an RPi1 first.

[1]: Which probably is perfectly ok and even intended. I'll probably
just need to dig deeper.

[2]: rnsh is a command-line utility written in Python that facilitates
shell sessions over Reticulum networks and aims to provide a similar
experience to SSH.

<https://github.com/acehoss/rnsh>

[3]: Attach TNC devices as network interfaces

<https://github.com/markqvist/tncattach>
--
___ _
|\/| | |_) |
| | E S H | H E | L A N E T .
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

**

A (sub)thread for posts that aren't clearly or at least
mainly attached to only one of MT or RNode/RNS/NomadNet.

**

Last night I got contacted by someONE who just was testing NomadNet over Internet. I see lots of other addresses in NomadNet, but as long as I
don't know who is who there, I will not randomly ping them, so that
surprise was helpful.

With MT I only have seen others' nodes outside of my LoRa reach in MT's
map and only had contacts among own guinea pigs.

With NomadNet currently only installed on one(!) ARMish SBC, I can't
ping myself yet.

So from my current viewpoint MT still stays the NoOtherHumanNet, which
would be fixed as soon as I understand how to get the MT<->MQTT feature working. But that long distance chatting over internet is not what MT originally is made for.

**

[Carlo Posti] was fast! The additional two ESP32+LoRa playgrounds
arrived while I just was sipping my first beans free caffeine soup.

I have not made up my mind yet how to employ them.

With MT µC+LoRa nodes alone can build the backbone of the mesh.

With RNS+RNode the LoRa part (RNode) is delegated to the µC+LoRa boards
and the network layer (RNS) runs on the system they are attached to and
this needs to be capable enough to run Python3.

Maybe ™somewhen someone™ will strip it down to run on MicroPython or
port RNS to C(++)? That would open the same door for RNS directly on
µCs too.

In both cases the applications run on the system that has the user as periphery.

With MT I only see LoRa as wireless technology for the (not internet
layer) mesh back-end.

With RNS allowing transport over serial interfaces and pipes a maybe
even unlimited playground opens up.

I have

- EByte-SomthingSomthing ((LV(TTL))serial<->LoRa433)

- HC-12/433 ((LV(TTL))serial<->noIdeaHowItIsNamed)

- RFM12b/433 (SPI<->???)

- NRF24L01 (SPI<->something/2.4G)

- several nameless (TTL<->OOK/433MHz)

modules here and while typically not being compatible over the species
barrier, they all easily could be attached to RNS, while their debut in
the MT context seems unlikely.

So maybe it'll make more sense to hunt my lack of understanding and/or configuration problems with MT using all four Heltec-V3 boards while
I'll stay able to explore RNS over internet and all the other transports
and modules.

I've some additional ideas from using a single LED as transceiver[P] to
playing with minimodem[M] and lots of other ™proof-of-concept-nonsense™
in between.

Lots of them will stay[S] theory, but for MT I only have extension ideas
on the IP over MT level which RNS can do too. Not a single idea about
other transports that would not be of the

MT or RNS <-> IP <-> something <-> IP <-> MT or RNS

kind.

WHAT A PLAYGROUND!

**

Cost? The cheapest MT node board is 15€+S&H and to throw it into the
woods you'd need to add a case, battery and a solar panel, so that'll
explode fast.

Both MT and RNS seem to run on a Pi0. Solar panel, case and battery add roughly the same cost as above, maybe even a bit more because a Pi0 may
be more greedy than a modern µC, but my guess is that the difference
will not be at a game changer level.

Bonus: MT and RNS could coexist on a system if a LoRa module is directly attached via SPI (the radio only) or USB (complete MT µC+Lora board).

A LoRa "hat" for RPiPico or classic RPi costs 2..3x the amount of a
"naked" SPI LoRa transceiver, which would only need a bit more than some
wires to get attached to the µC or SBC, but if you want a robust
solution, you'll end in designing an own "hat" and that'll ad up fast.

A DIY solution may add up to even more, but the standard boards'
diversity is low, so e.g. for getting a stronger transceiver than the
modules with the usual 20..22dBm (27dBm@868MHz[8] is allowed here) it
may be the only choice.

Yay for diversity! So it does not have to stay MT xor RNS.

GAMES WITHOUT FRONTIERS!

**

And now RL will take its toll for some hours,
so I cannot start playing immediately.

MOAR CAFFEINE!

**

____________

[8]: I sometimes see different numbers as names for the bands. 866 or
868, 433 or 434. I'm still using them randomly, maybe somewhen
later a habit will crystallise.

[M]: minimodem - general-purpose software audio FSK modem
<http://www.whence.com/minimodem/>

[P]: PJON (Padded Jittering Operative Network) is an experimental,
arduino-compatible, multi-master, multi-media network protocol.
<https://github.com/gioblu/PJON>

[S]: Santarella still has not brought me the 128 hours day that's on my
wish list already for decades.
--
I do not bite, I just want to play.
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

Interesting activities in NomadNet:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
+ [ Conversations ] [ Network ] [ Log ] [ Config ] [ Guide ] [ Quit ]
┌────────────────────────────────── The_Gate ──────────────────────────────────┐
│Ⓝ a06a6d60c3bd64ec1a3307892bba040b:/page/gopher.mu │
│┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄│
│ Gopher Proxy Beta Version, under construction ┃│
│ ┃│
│Input Gopher link gopher:// Go to link ┃│
│ ┃│
│Main menu Proxy Menu Search Engine Back ┃│
│ ┃│
│ tilde.institute tilde.institute ┃│
│─────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┃│
│ __ _ __ __ _ __ _ __ __ │
│ / /_(_) /___/ /__ (_)___ _____/ /_(_) /___ __/ /____ │
│ / __/ / / __ / _ / / __ \/ ___/ __/ / __/ / / / __/ _ │
│/ /_/ / / /_/ / __/ / / / / (__ ) /_/ / /_/ /_/ / /_/ __/ │
│__/_/_/__,_/\___(_)_/_/ /_/____/__/_/\__/__,_/\__/___/ ││ │
│Welcome to tilde.institute, a public-access UNIX system running OpenBSD. │
│This is a space for people to explore the OpenBSD operating system, in ││addition to exploring the more social aspects of a multi-user UNIX system. │
│Gopher and web space, IRC, games, and more are available! │
│ │
│User sites are accessible via https://<user>.tilde.institute │
│A list of user gopherholes is available at gopher://tilde.institute │
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│┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄│
│Done ▤ 14.09KB ↓4.67KB in 1.32s ◷ 28.32Kb/s │
└──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘
[C-l] Nodes/Announces [C-x] Remove [C-w] Disconnect [C-d] Back [C-f] Forward
[C-r] Reload [C-u] URL [C-g] Fullscreen [C-s / C-b] Save Node
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry for the 80CpL, but less then 80 would have butchered it too much.
--
Wasn't that a nice signature?
I'm switching to top signature, bottom text.
The top eeeeh bottom hot new trend!
\o/
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

Interesting. This does answer a question I had on using LoRa as
transport layer. My concerns of nomadnet as interface remains, but I'm
glad you're squaring up to kick things and see what breaks.

On Sat, 01 Mar 2025 14:49:54 +0042
yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> wrote:

Interesting activities in NomadNet:

Sorry for the 80CpL, but less then 80 would have butchered it too
much.

--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

Andrew Singleton <singletona082@ctrl-c.club> wrote:

Interesting. This does answer a question I had on using LoRa as
transport layer.

Currently I play with RNS over Internet only. Some of the hops to the
nodes I can access are via LoRa, just not the one directly on my side.

A RNS map seems to be discussed, but so far I saw no URL(s).

So far I only saw one mobile MT node in the MT map that was not tens of kilometers away. Probably it would be a strange surprise if only lots
of RNS users were active here while the local MT map looks empty.

My concerns of nomadnet as interface remains, but I'm glad you're
squaring up to kick things and see what breaks.

For me NomadNet's UI is totally unintuitive. Maybe it mimics a GUI app
style I just haven't seen before. Other apps will appear. I hope for terminals too and not only for GUIs.

RBS has RNX to execute programs on remotes and the optionally installed
RNSH to get a shell or similar. I did not dig very deep. Multiple RNX commands like

$ rnx rnsaddress date

sometimes display an additional line after the date and sometimes even
error.

There were some glitches with RNSH too, but it looks usable. NomadNet
running over RNSH sure is a strange idea, but I had to try it. MidnightCommander worked ok-ish even when served by a remote Pi1.

Maybe someone hooks other stuff into RNSH that resembles good old fun
over Telnet.

$ telnet horizons.jpl.nasa.gov 6775

$ telnet freechess.org

...

No idea whether an anonymous login would be possible. There will be
solutions. More read I must.

RNS has the bigger transport media diversity and I have seen other nodes
and had the first contacts via NomadNet's chat. With MT I haven't even
managed to attach a channel to its existing public MQTT backend to reach neighbours via internet. I only could chat between my own guinea pigs.
No idea what went wrong. A digital neighbour far west of me managed to
see others via MQTT, but currently his MT stuff idles while he's
building wireless sensors for home automation with LoRa and RFMsomething radios. Yesterday he installed RNS without LoRa too, but we haven't yet exchanged our numerical addresses and (or because) the Jabber server I
use to reach him (jabber.de) is down. Patience learn I must. OMMMM!!!

Currently MT may look more stable (that's more hearsay than personal experience), but I think I smell more fun in RNS. Maybe even without
using NomadNet. Maybe the best solution for me is to use both? But in
this MT desert I'd need to solve the MQTT problem. Everything other
than contacting MT users would be doable via RNS. More OMMMM needed.

(∞)
\/|\/
<=>
_______
--
3. Hitchhiker 10: (81) The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy has this to
say on the subject of flying. (82) There is an art, it says, or rather
a knack to flying. (83) The knack lies in learning how to throw
yourself at the ground and miss.
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

On Sat, 01 Mar 2025 20:59:01 +0042
yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> wrote:

For me NomadNet's UI is totally unintuitive. Maybe it mimics a GUI
app style I just haven't seen before. Other apps will appear. I
hope for terminals too and not only for GUIs.

I'd made my complaints known elsewhere around here so I won't rehash
the mess, but you pretty well summed up one of my biggest complaints.

'Mimics a GUI'

Oh sure it looks pretty but it's... Frankly it fails on useability for
me.

If RNode comes up with a solid transport layer with the ability to give
links to specific nodes? That's it. Let the protocols get written
around that rather than focus on this unintuitive feeling mess.

To use gemini linking as visual shorthand for how to handle entry
points to a device.

rnode://[device string].[protocol identifier: https, gemini,

gopher, ssh, nntp, smtp, pop, etc].[filename.etc]

You basically have to write content with the assumption that it's going
on an RNode. Relative links should be fine since they're on device,
which shifts the problem to absolute links.

For example: I have footer links in my gemini capsule that link
straight to other parts of the capsule, which are horizontal from
eachother but in seperate directories. which would normally require an
absolute link unless I'm overlooking something.)

I can appreciate NomadNet as a Cool Thing, but it feels like 'we're
wanting to build EVERYTHING New rather than adapt existing protocols
that might work with some tweaking.'

--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

Map discussion thread:

RMAP, Reticulum Network Worldwide Map Project #743 <https://github.com/markqvist/Reticulum/discussions/743>

It just got online:

RMAP.WORLD - RETICULUM NETWORK WORLD MAP PROJECT (RMAP) <https://rmap.world/index.php>

\o/
--
Fairies are the mood carrying virtual particles. We just would need
much bigger particle colliders to prove their existence, but who would
want to harm them?
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

Non-interactive service:

------------------------------------------------------------------------ server$ rnsh -l -a c040....b2ed -C -- /bin/date ------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------------------------------------------------ client$ rnsh 041a....a615 id
Remote error: Remote command line not allowed by listener
client$ rnsh 041a....a615
Mon 3 Mar 18:01:17 UTC 2025
client$ rnsh 041a....a615
Mon 3 Mar 18:01:33 UTC 2025

client$ rnsh 041a....a615
Mon 3 Mar 18:01:45 UTC 2025
client$ rnsh 041a....a615 bash
Remote error: Remote command line not allowed by listener

client$ _ ------------------------------------------------------------------------

The annoying extra empty lines still are there, but this just should
test plugging in something else than a shell. It's not a command
interpreter loop like a mail- or news-server would be, but one step
after the other ... ommmmmm ...


Dialog service:

------------------------------------------------------------------------ server$ rnsh -l -a c040....b2ed -C -- nc localhost 119 ------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------------------------------------------------ client$ rnsh 041a....a615
200 server.example.net InterNetNews server INN 2.7.1 ready (transit mode)
list
215 Newsgroups in form "group high low status"
control 0000000000 0000000001 n
control.cancel 0000000000 0000000001 n
control.checkgroups 0000000000 0000000001 n
control.newgroup 0000000000 0000000001 n
control.rmgroup 0000000000 0000000001 n
junk 0000000000 0000000001 n
local.general 0000000000 0000000001 y
local.test 0000000000 0000000001 y
.
quit
205 Bye!
.

client$ _ ------------------------------------------------------------------------

\o/

------------------------------------------------------------------------ server$ rnsh -l -a c040....b2ed -C -- nc localhost 25 ------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------------------------------------------------ client$ rnsh 041a....a615
220 himalaya....onion ESMTP Postfix (test in progress)
quit
221 2.0.0 Bye
.
client$ _ ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hmmmmmmyessss ... left over config echoes from Tor experiments.

\o/

That all used the same server side default identity. Running multiple
RNSHs on different identities is possible.

Maybe hooking in text based protocols into RNS can even be done easier
than this, but this already shows at least one way exists. We can laugh
later about this way to do it and enjoy better ways when we know about
them.

Server side "-n" instead of "-a hash" would allow everyone access, a
file to hold hashes of allowed clients exists too. So a service to
everyone and service like logins via public ssh keys are possible. No
idea whether adding a hash there would need a server restart, we'll see
that later. (I just need a break now.)
--
When dictatorship is a fact, revolution becomes a right. -- Victor Hugo
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

On a system where RNS complained about OpenSSL incompatibilities I tried "rnsplain" which is slower, but pure Python only:

------------------------------------------------------------------------
$ # installed only: pip3 install rnspure rnsh
$ du -sh .local
4.1M .local ------------------------------------------------------------------------

And afterwards I could connect via RNSH.

I'll not dive deep into "rnsplain" now, but its existence may save the
day somewhen.
--
4. Hitchhiker 11:
(72) "Watch the road!" she yelped.
(73) "Shit!"
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

TOP header snapshot, slightly manipulated to fit 72CpL, and "%%Cpu(s):"
line completely removed.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
top - 00:28:06 up 22 days, 15:24, 5 users, load avg: 1.94, 1.47, 1.31
Tasks: 122 total, 3 running, 119 sleeping, 0 stopped, 0 zombie
MiB Mem : 430.1 total, 46.0 free, 143.8 used, 250.5 buff/cache
MiB Swap: 1024.0 total, 995.9 free, 28.1 used. 286.2 avail Mem ------------------------------------------------------------------------

It permanently runs Dovecot, I2PD, Mosh, Postfix, Screen, Sshd, Tor, Top
and typically several shells and now additionally RNS and NomadNet.
Probably I forgot to mention some other stuff too.

Currently it feels like is a bit too much for its 700MHz ARMEL brain.

But:

A Pi0 (1st gen) would have 300MHz more, still only one CPU, but would
not need to run all the blingbling I currently torture this one with.
Neither running I2PD nor Tor would already take a lot of stress from it.
A node in the woods or on my balcony or roof would not need Dovecot,
Postfix and a lot of other stuff that's currently running. So that
might even fit.

Would it permanently need to run NomadNet? Probably not. Maybe it
should be installed to occasionally start it on demand, but not run it
as daemon.

This brave cutie runs Devuan5 (= Debian12 - Systemd), I'd probably try
OpenWrt on a Pi0 first because that is more firmware alike and survives
power loss better than our average desktop OSs.

I'm not there yet.

With a metallic *PLINGGGG!* that just lets my to do list grow another by another bit or even byte.

™Dark Energy Inside!™
--
3. Hitchhiker 15: (19) Slartibartfast had hoped for an easy retirement.
(20) He had been planning to learn to play the octraventral heebiephone
- a pleasantly futile task, he knew, because he had the wrong number of
mouths.
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

(Standard header and footer lines not copied this time.)

┌────────────────────────────── ReZero_NN ─────────────────────────────┐
│[N] a7b3eed8b84ee72fb7cf36c05787b924:/page/index.mu │ │----------------------------------------------------------------------│ │ │ │ _____ _ ___ __ │ │ /__ / ___ _________ / | / / | / / │ │ / / / _ / ___/ __ \/ |/ / |/ / │ │ / /__/ __/ / / /_/ / /| / /| / │ │ /____/___/_/ \____/_/ |_/_/ |_/ │ │ │ │ │ │──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────│
│──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────│
│ PizeroW Tips About │ │ │ │I came across reticulum and the (small, for the moment) constellation │ │of utilities that makes use of it, │ │and it has some features that intrigued me. I am slowly trying to │ │understand it more, while using them. │ │Here I'll try to collect some of my experiments, successes and │ │failures. │ │To start with, this node runs on a Raspberry PI Zero W, everything │ │compiled directly on the node. In itself, it was a test to see if this│ │hardware is suitable enough for a minimum setup. The answer is │ │positive, but remember that SDcards are not that reliable. │ │ │ │RNodes are another interest of mine. I made some experiments, │ │technically successful, but in practice not as usable as I would have │ │liked. │ │But I still have to make real tests, so for the moment nothing to │ │mention. │ │ │ │Finally, I'd like to try make something useful, for the visitors, of │ │this space. But... time is what I'm missing, time to dig a bit more │ │into the │ │minor details, and time to learn some new tools. │ │ │ │I'll try to update this node, when I have something relevant. │ │ │ │Thanks for passing by. │ │ │ │ │ │ │ │──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────│
│ Tue Mar 4 04:13:58 GMT 2025│ │ │ │----------------------------------------------------------------------│ │Done 1.75KB \/2.21KB in 1.41s 12.57Kb/s │ └──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘

Ok. That has some thumbs up for Pi0w (as I call those).

The SD card reliability can be cured by only booting from it and running
the rest on a longer lasting USB medium. For a system that mainly plays repeater and not storage for others, I'd risk a pure SD card setup until
wear off really proves to be a problem. For a storage server or desktop
I'd start with a different medium.

┌────────────────────────────── ReZero_NN ─────────────────────────────┐
│[N] a7b3eed8b84ee72fb7cf36c05787b924:/page/pizero.mu │ │----------------------------------------------------------------------│ │ Can the reticulum network stack and nomadnetwork be installed on a │ │Raspberry Pi? Sure, and they are probably a good choice to run │ │standalone nodes. │ │In this sense, the smaller (and cheaper) the Pi, the better. │ │Pi Zero W and Pi Zero 2 W can be successfully used. If you want to │ │install reticulum on a Pi Zero2 W you can simply go for the 64 bit │ │version of the Raspbian OS, and it will just install easily. │ │But the Pi Zero W has a 32 bit single core ARM CPU, and you are stuck │ │with a 32 bit version. │ │Apparently, the cryptography library is not available as precompile │ │package, but you can do it yourself. │ │The instructions below worked for me (Rapsbian OS based on versions 10│ │and 11) │ │ │ │ Install a couple of missing packages │ │ │ │ apt install libssl-dev python3-dev │ │ │ │ Install a rust compiler │ │ Then a you need a rust compiler. If you follow the instructions │ │ from https://www.rust-lang.org/tools/install you may end up with │ │ the installation failing because rustup tries to allocate a lot of │ │ memory while installing, and it will exceed the 512MB of a pizero │ │ or pizero2. │ │ A workaround is to set an environment variable │ │ export RUSTUP_IO_THREADS=1 │ │ before running the rustup command │ │ curl https://sh.rustup.rs -sSf | sh │ │ Apparently the single threaded version is less memory greedy. │ │ │ │ Install reticulum and nomadnet │ │ Then you can proceed with the │ │ pip install rns nomadnet usual instructions: │ │ python3 -m pip install rns nomadnet │ │ When it's time to install cryptography, it will take quite a long │ │ time to compile (on the pizeros), but it should work. │ │ │ │----------------------------------------------------------------------│ │Done 1.62KB \/2.11KB in 0.86s 19.64Kb/s │ └──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘

In my case it was Debian12, the above mentions Debian10/11. Maybe that
alone already can explain the rusty difference?

I could install RNS and NomadNet via PIP without getting rusty fingers
on Pi1 which has the same CPU as the Pi0(w) and just differs in the
peripheries and the CPU speed. Original Debian and so its sibling
without SystemD seems to have these rusty packages missing in Raspi-OS.

But this could be a showstopper for RNS & NomadNet on OpenWrt.
--
1. Hitchhier 13: (2) "... and then of course I've got this terrible pain
in all the diodes down my left hand side ..."
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

------------------------------------------------------------------------
~$ lxmd -h
usage: lxmd [-h] [--config CONFIG] [--rnsconfig RNSCONFIG] [-p] [-i PATH] [-v]
[-q] [-s] [--status] [--peers] [--timeout TIMEOUT]
[--identity IDENTITY] [--exampleconfig] [--version]

Lightweight Extensible Messaging Daemon

options:
-h, --help show this help message and exit
--config CONFIG path to alternative lxmd config directory
--rnsconfig RNSCONFIG
path to alternative Reticulum config directory
-p, --propagation-node
run an LXMF Propagation Node
-i PATH, --on-inbound PATH
executable to run when a message is received
-v, --verbose
-q, --quiet
-s, --service lxmd is running as a service and should log to file
--status display node status
--peers display peered nodes
--timeout TIMEOUT timeout in seconds for query operations
--identity IDENTITY path to identity used for query request
--exampleconfig print verbose configuration example to stdout and exit
--version show program's version number and exit ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Staring at the "-i" option I think that could be the place to hook in
actions looking at the last message received for deciding how to process
them. Maybe that way one could have an "inetd.conf" alike table to
delegate which helpers to use for mail, news, file transfer, ... instead
of needing one listener per service type.

I'm not there yet. And that probably wont even change soon-ish. *sigh!*


But seeing that ommmmmmption does make ommmmmmptimistic.

(∞)
\/|\/
<=>
_______
--
Gandhi II (1989) -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ega5Rcct2s
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

Just stumbled into ...

rns-if-espnow
ESP-NOW interface for Reticulum Network Stack
<https://github.com/gretel/rns-if-espnow>

... and that indeed shortens my dark energy infected to list by a bit.

This skips the AP part in the WiFi game and may be faster than LoRa..

The doc and install info is a bit sparse and sure I'll try LoRa/868
first, but playing with this mode of the ESP's radios was on my wish
list.
--
Fact checking died. Now we can call Trump smart without fearing
consequences?
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> wrote:

The doc and install info is a bit sparse

After staring at that repo, I think just the whole contents of the
sources folder shall be thrown into the ESP32.

and sure I'll try LoRa/868 first,

I'm no longer betting on this and have ordered two ESP32 boards with
connector for an external antenna. I've some older ones with PCB
antenna here, but the majority has the PSRAM chip on board and should
stay reserved for far more complex stuff. Two older boards with PCB
antenna may be guinea pigs for these experiments too.

but playing with this mode of the ESP's radios was on my wish
list.

And I still have no idea whether this code is compatible with
MicroPython on ESP8266 which should be able to use ESPNOW too.
--
( Are we there yet? )
\ ( Be patient! )
\ \
_______________________ _@o ____________ _@o _@o _______________________
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

Lots of ncursing after years of not touching ESPxyz-stuff, maybe some
CP210x driver problems, maybe some unreliable USB cables and dusty USB
sockets, but finally:

+ Flashed two ESP32 Devkit V1 with MicroPython 1.24.1
Wroom32, PCB antenna
Installed "rns-now".
The two Wrooom32 see the pings of their Wroom32 neighbour.

+ Flashed two ESP32 Devkit V4 with MicroPython 1.24.1
Wroom32U, u-Fl connector
Installed "rns-now".
The two Wrooom32U see the pings of their Wroom32U neighbour.

+ All tests with default settings.

+ No tests between Wroom32 and Wroom32U.

- Tests using these as USB serial attached interfaces with RNS were not
successful yet.

+ Flashed four ESP8266 Devkit V1 with MicroPython 1.24.1
ESP-12e(?) based, PCB antenna, nickname "amica"
No "rns-now". Just standby for future events.

So neither a breakthrough, nor completely stuck.

Waiting for the idea fairy to knock on my door.
--
Fairies are the mood carrying virtual particles. We just would need
much bigger particle colliders to prove their existence, but who would
want to harm them?
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

esp32/espnow: Add support for espnow v2.0. #16737 https://github.com/micropython/micropython/pull/16737

That will help a lot!

I hope it lands in MicroPython soon.
--
( Are we there yet? )
\ ( Be patient! )
\ \
_______________________ _@o ____________ _@o _@o _______________________
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

Ok ... this may explain some of my problems with MT, but may relevant
for LoRa with SX1262 radios in all contexts:

<https://github.com/markqvist/Reticulum/discussions/787#discussioncomment-12811758>
|
| cobraPA 20250412-1125-UTC:
|
| Oddly, I just ran across this comment in the Meshtastic chat... I'm
| not familiar with such a bug yet, but have you tried reseting?
|
| > EI3HBB — 4/10/25, 6:56 PM
| > I have a Heltec V3 as my main node on my house. Yesterday I placed
| > a Faketec solar node on test about 1 meter away from it on the roof.
| > Everything was fine, both nodes were working great. Today I found
| > that the Faketec was performing very poorly, 7 dB worse tx/rx. Is
| > there any chance that having the HeltecV3 close by could have
| > damaged the Faketec? Too much RF?
| > Ben 🇬🇧 — Yesterday at 4:38 AM
| > yes the SX1262 radio has a bug
| > something something it goes deaf (until a hardware reset) if it RX's
| > a signal that's too loud

That may explain why my indoor experiments with MT were kind of reliably failing after a while.

While still exploring RNS without LoRa, I'm planning to play with RNodes
as TNCs and TCP/IP over them and that SX1262 "sudden hearing loss" bug
might happily strike again in that context too.
--
<jedi magic> This is not a signature. </jedi magic>
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

I flashed two Heltec-V3 as RNodes and it looks like they happily talk to another.

On my main not-eBook and a Pi1 the HV3ers are attached via USB and
configured like this:

------------------------------------------------------------------------
[[RNode LoRa Interface]]
type = RNodeInterface
enabled = yes
port = /dev/ttyUSB0
# port = ble://RNode 3B87
# port = ble://F4:12:73:29:4E:89
# port = ble://
frequency = 867200000
bandwidth = 125000
txpower = 7 # 7 dBm (5 mW)
spreadingfactor = 8 # fastest 7 ... 12 longest
codingrate = 5 # fastest 5 ... 8 longest
# id_callsign = MYCALL-0
# id_interval = 600
flow_control = False ------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's from the example configuration, but I trimmed away most
comments. I'll look at the details later.

RNS runs here on pi1-a, pi2-a, pi2-b and kumari (that not-eBook, ok,
laptop, but that's not an eBook too!) and they all are in the same LAN
but Reticulum only sees the HV3 as interface on kumari. The Pi1 has the
other HV3 and so accessing a page on one of the Pi2s uses the LAN
interface.

.--------. .-------. .-------.
| kumari +---(LoRa)---+ pi1-a +---(LAN)---+ pi2-* |
'--------' '-------' '-------'

------------------------------------------------------------------------
+ [ Conversations ] [ Network ] [ Log ] [ Config ] [ Guide ] [ Quit ] ┌──────────────────────────── No Plan. (2b) ───────────────────────────┐
│[N] 938eaccd50b990b647172c8715d2439e:/page/No_Plan.mu │ │----------------------------------------------------------------------│ │No Plan. │ │──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────│
│Why does "No Plan." appear so often here? │ │ │ │Read about 'finger' e.g. in WikipediA. │ │──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────│
│Navigation: │ │ │ │index │ │----------------------------------------------------------------------│ │Done 136B \/136B in 1.68s 649b/s │ └──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘
[C-l] Nodes/Announces [C-x] Remove [C-w] Disconnect [C-d] Back [C-f] Forward [C-r] Reload [C-u] URL [C-g] Fullscreen [C-s / C-b] Save
Node ------------------------------------------------------------------------
(brutally forced to 72CpL, some empty lines removed)

All Pis know some RNS systems in the internet, so pi1-a helps the
not-eBook to reach Denmark:

------------------------------------------------------------------------
+ [ Conversations ] [ Network ] [ Log ] [ Config ] [ Guide ] [ Quit ] ┌────────────────────── 441.975<->TCP Lolland DK ──────────────────────┐
│[N] ed135e16cd7cd29f2eff82e3e9c91108:/page/index.mu │ │----------------------------------------------------------------------│ │ TCP UHF Uplink │ │ │ │ This Node is running on a Raspberry PI 3B │ │ │ │----------------------------------------------------------------------│ │Done 86B \/86B in 1.72s 400b/s │ └──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘
[C-l] Nodes/Announces [C-x] Remove [C-w] Disconnect [C-d] Back [C-f] Forward [C-r] Reload [C-u] URL [C-g] Fullscreen [C-s / C-b] Save
Node
------------------------------------------------------------------------
(brutally forced to 72CpL, some empty lines removed)

With currently four HV3ers at hand, I could place one on each window
side of my home (east and south) and keep two for mobile experiments.

But for now back to allowing LAN transport for kumari again.

That all needs to ferment a bit.

Ommmmmm!!!
--
(∞)
\/|\/
<=>
_______
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

Just stumbled into:

RNode over IP #788
<https://github.com/markqvist/Reticulum/discussions/788>

Unluckily patience is not among my superpowers. :.(
--
( Are we there yet? )
\ ( Be patient! )
\ \
_______________________ _@o ____________ _@o _@o _______________________
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

Last Thursday I got two lill Lora "fiddler crabs" ...

<https://wiki.seeedstudio.com/wio_sx1262_with_xiao_esp32s3_kit/>

... but the command-line flasher tool fails to flash them and the browser
based flasher doesn't know them yet.

An URL about using 'esptool' manually for them and especially including
the RNode firmware specific steps to set up the identity is not among my bookmarks.

I just let that problem ferment a while. Others are interested in these
small radios too and someone will be more in the mood to report an
issue.
--
I do not bite, I just want to play.
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

Previously the flashing of the firmware via 'rnodeconf' succeeded, but
failed on the needed following steps. This seemed to have fixed it:

<https://github.com/cobraPA/RNode_Firmware_iOS/wiki/Seeed-ESP32S3-with-Wio%E2%80%90SX1262>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
~$ rnodeconf --platform ESP32 --product eb --model dd --hwrev 1 --rom --eeprom-wipe /dev/ttyACM0
[00:28:42] Opening serial port /dev/ttyACM0...
[00:28:45] Device connected
[00:28:45] Current firmware version: 1.82
[00:28:45] WARNING: EEPROM is being wiped! Power down device NOW if you do not want this!
~$ rnodeconf --platform ESP32 --product eb --model dd --hwrev 1 --rom /dev/ttyACM0
[00:29:21] Opening serial port /dev/ttyACM0...
[00:29:25] Device connected
[00:29:25] Current firmware version: 1.82
[00:29:25] Reading EEPROM...
[00:29:25] Waiting for ESP32 reset...
[00:29:31] Loading signing key...
[00:29:31] Bootstrapping device EEPROM...
[00:29:33] EEPROM written! Validating...
[00:29:35] Waiting for ESP32 reset...
[00:29:43] EEPROM checksum correct
[00:29:43] Device signature validated
[00:29:43] EEPROM Bootstrapping successful!
~$ rnodeconf -i /dev/ttyACM0
[00:30:57] Opening serial port /dev/ttyACM0...
[00:31:01] Device connected
[00:31:01] Current firmware version: 1.82
[00:31:01] Reading EEPROM...
[00:31:01] EEPROM checksum correct
[00:31:01] Device signature validated
[00:31:01]
[00:31:01] Device info:
[00:31:01] Product : Seeed XIAO ESP32S3 Wio-SX1262 850 - 950 MHz (eb:dd:3e)
[00:31:01] Device signature : Validated - Local signature
[00:31:01] Firmware version : 1.82
[00:31:01] Hardware revision : 1
[00:31:01] Serial number : 00:00:00:04
[00:31:01] Modem chip : SX1262
[00:31:01] Frequency range : 850.0 MHz - 950.0 MHz
[00:31:01] Max TX power : 22 dBm
[00:31:01] Manufactured : 2025-04-22 00:29:31
[00:31:01] Device mode : Normal (host-controlled)

~$ _
------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's now applied to both fiddler crabs and until I've decided which
way to use them (RNS or TNC) I'll take a break.

And I should give them better antennae.
--
2. Hitchhiker 17: (110) "Careful with that hammer, sir," he said.
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.2