• SIDs, the hard way

    From freet@freet@aussies.space (The Free Thinker) to tilde.art.music on Sun Oct 17 04:07:27 2021
    This weekend I've finally got around to installing and trying out
    my DIY build of the original HardSID* ISA card, based on the design
    here:
    http://hardsid.8m.net

    I wouldn't really argue with people who claim that Sidplayfp's
    emulation is just as good as a real SID, though it requires lots of
    processing power just to do the job of a chip sitting in one of
    the dead C64s on my shelf. It's just a fun project.

    Getting it working in Linux was a bit tricky and took me all
    morning today, but means I can listen to it while posting this from
    the same PC. Next I guess I'll have to get back to building my
    Theremin, and eventually onto building my own (fairly scary) idea
    for a new musical instrument.

    Any other SID lovers or audio electronics tinkerers out there?

    * A PC sound card using the 'SID' audio synth chip from a Commodore
    64.
    --

    - The Free Thinker | gopher://aussies.space/1/%7efreet/
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  • From xwindows@xwindows@tilde.club to tilde.art.music on Sun Oct 17 20:59:19 2021
    On Sun, 17 Oct 2021, The Free Thinker wrote:

    audio electronics tinkerers out there?

    I'm not exactly an audio guy though; the most exciting thing I have
    ever done with audio equipment around me was disassembling few of them
    to replace failing parts, and that's it. My understanding of analog
    transistor circuits is currently not enough for me to design one.

    Getting it working in Linux was a bit tricky and took me all
    morning today,

    Congratulations! Does it require special driver and software to play?

    Any other SID lovers

    Well, I didn't have chance to experience the 8-bit home computing/gaming
    stuff, and started out with PC; so... chiptune-wise, I'm more familiar
    with something like Yamaha OPL3 (YMF262) which somehow got bundled with
    my old C-Media CMI8738-based PCI audio card.

    I have never programmed it with a real tracker, but I have played
    around using a MIDI player on DOS called Midier [1] which I found
    that it produced quirky but interesting sound. I have also played
    the same card under GNU/Linux (ALSA MIDI) with instrument patches
    loaded using alsa-tools' `sbiload`; while I found that it played okay,
    the patches bundled there sounded way less impressive.

    With no experience with tracker, and with no game that used the chip;
    my usage just... never went beyond this, before the whole machine
    got moved into the storeroom. My (very limited) experience in electronic
    music creation mostly rooted in the land of MIDI; and my recent attempt
    to tackle MilkyTracker bare-handed in the dark was also fruitless
    so... back to MIDI again I guess.

    If anyone know of any absolute beginner guide on how to arrange music
    on MilkyTracker (that is also legible for one with no formal western music education and zero experience with tracker software in general), please tell.

    I'll have to get back to building my Theremin

    Great! Hope I'd build one someday; although I'm not sure if I would be
    patient enough to practice and play actual music on it, hahaha.
    For the time being, I make do with a lousy software-emulated theremin
    installed on my Android PDA phone whether I was randomly in a mood
    for ghostly wail... *Sigh* playing actual music on it is tough.

    and eventually onto building my own (fairly scary) idea
    for a new musical instrument

    Electronic instrument I suppose? I'm also having some project in progress
    that involves MIDI (not an instrument, but a very primitive form of
    sequencer and synthesizer) that aims to retro-target some use cases
    of yesteryear.

    I also wonder what Wintergatan has been up to these days...

    Anyway, good luck.

    Cheers,
    ~xwindows


    [1] It came with a TSR driver from Creative, which I suppose that it is
    the part that works out MIDI events into actual commands for OPL3.
    I have never found the documentation of its API. https://web.archive.org/web/20190118024711/http://www.pldos.pl/windos/midier.htm
    --
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  • From freet@freet@aussies.space (The Free Thinker) to tilde.art.music on Mon Oct 18 22:48:19 2021
    xwindows <xwindows@tilde.club> wrote:
    On Sun, 17 Oct 2021, The Free Thinker wrote:

    audio electronics tinkerers out there?

    I'm not exactly an audio guy though; the most exciting thing I have
    ever done with audio equipment around me was disassembling few of them
    to replace failing parts, and that's it. My understanding of analog transistor circuits is currently not enough for me to design one.

    Getting it working in Linux was a bit tricky and took me all
    morning today,

    Congratulations! Does it require special driver and software to play?

    Yes there's a kernel driver module which I messed around trying to
    build against the wrong kernel headers for a little while, and also
    required a slight change to the code to get it to build against the
    right ones.

    http://hardsid.sourceforge.net/
    It only supports up to kernel v. 2.6, so it's convenient that I'm
    running a very old Linux install on this Pentium 1 anyway. Maybe it
    wouldn't be so hard to build on a current kernel though because I
    believe 2.6 was the last widespread change to the way kernel
    modules worked. I bet that'd still take a lot more than one morning
    to do though.

    I thought the XMMS-SID plug-in for XMMS supported the HardSID. But
    though there's some code in there for it and an option in the
    config menu, it turns out it was never finished (still in the TODO
    file) and non-functional. So I compiled the last version of
    Sidplay2 and libsidplay, though that player is fairly awkward to
    use and a bit buggy:
    http://sidplay2.sourceforge.net/hardsid.html

    Maybe I'll be able to track down the Linux version of TinySID with
    HardSID support and try that sometime (I forgot to try the Windows
    version when testing in Win98 actually): http://web.archive.org/web/20100904013553/http://www.rsinsch.de/?id=7298b&s=k2&lang=en

    [I just wasted 15min making another search for Linux TinySID, so
    the rest of this post is rushed]

    Any other SID lovers

    Well, I didn't have chance to experience the 8-bit home computing/gaming stuff, and started out with PC; so... chiptune-wise, I'm more familiar
    with something like Yamaha OPL3 (YMF262) which somehow got bundled with
    my old C-Media CMI8738-based PCI audio card.

    I'm from the PC era as well, I just had relatives who were getting
    rid of their old Commodore stuff (in turn accumulated from other
    people getting rid of it). Back then my C64 sat next to my Nintendo
    64.

    I have never programmed it with a real tracker, but I have played
    around using a MIDI player on DOS called Midier [1] which I found
    that it produced quirky but interesting sound. I have also played
    the same card under GNU/Linux (ALSA MIDI) with instrument patches
    loaded using alsa-tools' `sbiload`; while I found that it played okay,
    the patches bundled there sounded way less impressive.

    With no experience with tracker, and with no game that used the chip;
    my usage just... never went beyond this, before the whole machine
    got moved into the storeroom. My (very limited) experience in electronic music creation mostly rooted in the land of MIDI; and my recent attempt
    to tackle MilkyTracker bare-handed in the dark was also fruitless
    so... back to MIDI again I guess.

    I've never got into making music properly either. The HardSID will
    probably only be used for listening to downloaded SIDs, though
    there is a MIDI driver for it in Windows. I've tried to get into
    composing in trackers many times, but haven't put enough time into
    it. These days I think I spend too much time doing things at the
    computer anyway.

    I'll have to get back to building my Theremin

    Great! Hope I'd build one someday; although I'm not sure if I would be patient enough to practice and play actual music on it, hahaha.
    For the time being, I make do with a lousy software-emulated theremin installed on my Android PDA phone whether I was randomly in a mood
    for ghostly wail... *Sigh* playing actual music on it is tough.

    It works best with some form of accompanyment, eg. piano, from what
    I've heard. I've got some ideas for extra features, though not
    having played one myself yet (not even a pretend one) they're
    probably premature.

    and eventually onto building my own (fairly scary) idea
    for a new musical instrument

    Electronic instrument I suppose?

    Maybe Electro-Inflammable? It's based around the concept of the
    Flame Amplifier, or Flame Speaker, where an electic signal is
    applied to a flame and produces amplified sound by ionisation.
    The idea is to set up a large flame (1m+ high - flame length
    determines the frequency range) within an enclosed chamber and
    interact the resonance of the chamber with the vibrations from
    electrically induced ionisation, adjusting both and experimenting
    with feedback effects.

    Integration of the flame as part of an oscillator circuit
    controlling the signal for the ionisation/speaker part, following
    these experiments:
    http://www.sparkbangbuzz.com/flame-amp/flameamp.htm
    might be another interesting avenue of investigation.

    One of my many mad scientist ideas that I never get around to.
    I need to figure more out about making tall flames for starters,
    without setting fire to too much (I do have the advantage of being
    able to do these tests with an old fire truck nearby).

    I'm also having some project in progress
    that involves MIDI (not an instrument, but a very primitive form of
    sequencer and synthesizer) that aims to retro-target some use cases
    of yesteryear.

    Neat, maybe less HardSID and more SIDstation? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elektron_SidStation
    --

    - The Free Thinker | gopher://aussies.space/1/%7efreet/
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  • From freet@freet@aussies.space (The Free Thinker) to tilde.art.music on Tue Oct 19 22:21:53 2021
    The Free Thinker <freet@aussies.space> wrote:

    Maybe I'll be able to track down the Linux version of TinySID with
    HardSID support and try that sometime (I forgot to try the Windows
    version when testing in Win98 actually): http://web.archive.org/web/20100904013553/http://www.rsinsch.de/?id=7298b&s=k2&lang=en

    The latest version still online seems to be here: http://web.archive.org/web/20050316025247/http://homepages.fh-giessen.de/~hg11001/binary_downloads.htm

    It's only available as a very old binary, and needs to be run as
    root to access the HardSID via /dev/port. But it does actually
    work for me. Much smaller than Sidplay2 + libs (56KB vs ~3MB) and
    hardly any CPU usage (from the 6502 emulation).

    It doesn't use the HardSID kernel module that I mentioned earlier,
    which I think is why it seems to be more affected by other programs
    running on the machine even when there's lots of CPU time to spare.

    But compared with Sidplay2, lack of songlengths.txt support means
    it's not really as usuable for me.

    Sorry if nobody here actually cares about details of software for
    such extremely obscure hardware.
    --

    - The Free Thinker | gopher://aussies.space/1/%7efreet/
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  • From joe@joe@raspberry.invalid to tilde.art.music on Fri Mar 4 05:47:06 2022
    The Free Thinker <freet@aussies.space> wrote:
    Any other SID lovers or audio electronics tinkerers out there?

    Many years ago I had a little work shop area that I could work on
    electronics with. Back before arduino and such. I didn't have a prom
    burner though.

    I've moved a few dozen times since then, and had to get rid of all my
    old equipment. It really made me sad to have to leave it.

    I can't collect stuff like that anymore, I don't want to have to lose it again... with a semi-nomadic lifestyle, things like that are luxuries I
    just can't afford. Those esp32's look really interesting.

    To answer your question, I never had the chance to put a SID chip in the breadboard and wire it up. I thought it would be interesting though.


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  • From freet@freet@aussies.space (The Free Thinker) to tilde.art.music on Sat Mar 5 00:07:29 2022
    joe@raspberry.invalid wrote:
    Many years ago I had a little work shop area that I could work on
    electronics with. Back before arduino and such. I didn't have a prom
    burner though.

    I've moved a few dozen times since then, and had to get rid of all my
    old equipment. It really made me sad to have to leave it.

    I can't collect stuff like that anymore, I don't want to have to lose it again... with a semi-nomadic lifestyle, things like that are luxuries I
    just can't afford.

    I do sometimes pack all my essentials into a box and take them to
    another place to finish a project. Actually I'm in a habit of
    building presents for my mother, and usually I don't get them
    finished in time before I leave to stay at her house for a few
    days, so I pack everything up and spend my time there working late
    into the night bathed in solder smoke. It's something to do besides
    sitting around and getting into arguments at least.

    Basically a soldering iron, DMM, and logic probe are all the main
    things that I usually need. Besides the components, the most
    essential of which I keep in plastic compartment-boxes such as
    people use for fishing tackle and the like.

    Well then there's also usually a hot glue gun, screws/screwdrivers,
    hand drill, and comprehensive set of drill bits, for modifying
    boxes to make into a case for whatever I build (building cards like
    the HardSID to go inside a PC avoids that bit).

    Then again back here at home I've got two rooms that could be
    classed as electronics workshops, containing excessive numbers of
    bookcases crammed with electronics and computer parts. Then
    many thousands more in boxes in the shed that I slowly sell online.
    Not to mention that my lounge room currently has broken laptops
    everywhere which I'm trying to fix up and re-sell. But I do know
    how to get by without 99% of it.

    To answer your question, I never had the chance to put a SID chip in the breadboard and wire it up. I thought it would be interesting though.

    I might as well conclude my earlier ramblings about software for
    the HardSID card by noting that this 'Playrand' script is easily
    modified to play files automatically in SIDplay2, which itself
    lacks any playlist support (in Linux): http://www.shelldorado.com/scripts/quickies/playrand
    --

    - The Free Thinker | gopher://aussies.space/1/%7efreet/
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