And another thing (not only related to GUIs):

When data and settings are spread over lots of directories, backup,
migration and synchronisation often are a pain.


It can be done:

Evolution has an own builtin backup feature which bundles the config and
all data including mail Evolution does not consider being remote
('~/Maildir' counts as not local, but is easy to backup, so I'm not
going postal for this) into a compressed Tar bundle.


Kind of related:

Since some releases Weechat (TUI) now spreads its config and data over
some desktop FS standard dot-dirs, Midnight-Commander does that already
much longer. At least Weechat respects the old single dot-dir and does
not split it automagically on an update.


Even GNUS ... odd GNUS?

And w-t-h does GNUS place stuff outside of '.emacs.d'? For '~/Mail' and '~/News' it may make sense, but for its dot-files?


Dreams?

IMO all "Apps" should offer a solution like Evolution or at least an
easy to find list which directories one should backup/migrate/sync. I'd
not accept that deeply hidden in some doc as acceptable solution. It
should be easy to find within seconds.
--
4. Hitchhiker 11:
(72) "Watch the road!'' she yelped.
(73) "Shit!"
--- Synchronet 3.19b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> wrote:

And another thing (not only related to GUIs):

When data and settings are spread over lots of directories, backup,
migration and synchronisation often are a pain.

It can be done:

Evolution has an own builtin backup feature which bundles the config and
all data including mail Evolution does not consider being remote
('~/Maildir' counts as not local, but is easy to backup, so I'm not
going postal for this) into a compressed Tar bundle.

Sypheed (a graphical mail client-and-new client), too, is easily
configured to store both config and data in the same directory.

Since some releases Weechat (TUI) now spreads its config and data over
some desktop FS standard dot-dirs, Midnight-Commander does that already
much longer. At least Weechat respects the old single dot-dir and does
not split it automagically on an update.

Sounds bad. What is "FS"?

Even GNUS ... odd GNUS?

And w-t-h does GNUS place stuff outside of '.emacs.d'? For '~/Mail' and '~/News' it may make sense, but for its dot-files?

Tin with default settings shows a similar trend, with some of its
config /and/ data files tucked neatly under ~/.tin, and some
under ~ . This is partly fixable by setting a custom $TIN_HOMEDIR
variable to be used instead of ~ .
--- Synchronet 3.19b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

ant@tilde.club writes:

yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> wrote:

And another thing (not only related to GUIs):

When data and settings are spread over lots of directories, backup,
migration and synchronisation often are a pain.


It can be done:

Evolution has an own builtin backup feature which bundles the config and
all data including mail Evolution does not consider being remote
('~/Maildir' counts as not local, but is easy to backup, so I'm not
going postal for this) into a compressed Tar bundle.

Sypheed (a graphical mail client-and-new client), too, is easily
configured to store both config and data in the same directory.

\o/ ___( ++! )

Since some releases Weechat (TUI) now spreads its config and data over
some desktop FS standard dot-dirs, Midnight-Commander does that already
much longer. At least Weechat respects the old single dot-dir and does
not split it automagically on an update.

Sounds bad. What is "FS"?

File System.

Even GNUS ... odd GNUS?

And w-t-h does GNUS place stuff outside of '.emacs.d'? For '~/Mail' and
'~/News' it may make sense, but for its dot-files?

Tin with default settings shows a similar trend, with some of its
config /and/ data files tucked neatly under ~/.tin, and some
under ~ . This is partly fixable by setting a custom $TIN_HOMEDIR
variable to be used instead of ~ .

The list of subscribed news groups probably is in ~ because other
news readers use(d) it too.
--
I do not bite, I just want to play.
--- Synchronet 3.19b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> wrote:

The list of subscribed news groups probably is in ~ because other
news readers use(d) it too.

Yes, I thought so, from the generic names and structure of those
files and directories:

~/Mail
~/News
~/.cancelsecret
~/.mime.types
~/.newsauth
~/.newsrc
~/.signature
~/.Sig
~/.sigfixed

But then I rather prefer the portability of my configuration; and
Tin's data is still heavily mixed with metadata...
--- Synchronet 3.19b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

ant@tilde.club writes:

~/.cancelsecret

. o O ( Cryyyyyy!!! )

|
/ \

GNUS puts the cancel stuff in ... guess three times ... not '~/.gnus' or
an other of the GNUSish files or something in '~/.emacs.d' ... it is in
the custom variables hidden in '~/.emacs' and so I've lost some of my
early cancel keys over cleaning up my Emacs configuration.
--
1. Hitchhiker 13: (17) "Funny," he intoned funerally, "how just when you
think life can't possibly get any worse it suddenly does."
--- Synchronet 3.19b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

On 2024-09-25 Wed 17:10 GMT, ant@tilde.club <ant@tilde.club> wrote:

Sypheed (a graphical mail client-and-new client), too, is easily
configured to store both config and data in the same directory.

But... isn't that inconvenient when your config is kept in version
control? I guess you could keep your email there too, do people do
that?
--
barnold
Physician: One upon whom we set our hopes when ill and our dogs when well.
-- Ambrose Bierce
--- Synchronet 3.19b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> writes:

ant@tilde.club writes:

yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> wrote:

And another thing (not only related to GUIs):

When data and settings are spread over lots of directories, backup,
migration and synchronisation often are a pain.


It can be done:

Evolution has an own builtin backup feature which bundles the config and >>> all data including mail Evolution does not consider being remote
('~/Maildir' counts as not local, but is easy to backup, so I'm not
going postal for this) into a compressed Tar bundle.

Sypheed (a graphical mail client-and-new client), too, is easily
configured to store both config and data in the same directory.

\o/ ___( ++! )

Hey. Do you guys use Sylpheed? I like it too, but on my Windows 10, it
seems not to respect my Windows keyboard configuration. I reported the
fact at

https://github.com/sylpheed-mail/sylpheed/issues/42

I wonder if you guys have any suggestion. Thank you!
--- Synchronet 3.19b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> wrote:

ant@tilde.club writes:

~/.cancelsecret

. o O ( Cryyyyyy!!! )

|
/ \

GNUS puts the cancel stuff in ... guess three times ... not '~/.gnus'
or an other of the GNUSish files or something in '~/.emacs.d' ... it
is in the custom variables hidden in '~/.emacs' and so I've lost some
of my early cancel keys over cleaning up my Emacs configuration.

Outch and grouch. Do cancel messages make sense in modern Usenet with
fast propagation?
--- Synchronet 3.19b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

Patricia Ferreira <pferreira@example.com> wrote:

yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> writes:

ant@tilde.club writes:

Sypheed (a graphical mail client-and-new client), too, is easily
configured to store both config and data in the same directory.

\o/ ___( ++! )

Hey. Do you guys use Sylpheed? I like it too, but on my Windows 10,
it seems not to respect my Windows keyboard configuration. I reported
the fact at

https://github.com/sylpheed-mail/sylpheed/issues/42

I wonder if you guys have any suggestion. Thank you! .

Yes, I use Sylpheed and like it, with both ru and us keyboard layouts on Windows and Linux. Can you make sure they keyboard problem you describe
is specific to Sylpheed and is not objseved in other GTK2 applications,
or native X applications, such as Xterm? Chrome is not the best
reference...
--- Synchronet 3.19b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

barnold <barnold@tilde.club> wrote:

On 2024-09-25 Wed 17:10 GMT, ant@tilde.club <ant@tilde.club> wrote:

Sypheed (a graphical mail client-and-new client), too, is easily
configured to store both config and data in the same directory.

But... isn't that inconvenient when your config is kept in version
control? I guess you could keep your email there too, do people do
that?

I shouldn't like it, for version control for tracking changes, whereas
e-mail messages are immutable. Keeping config files under version
control makes more sense, but I have come to that yet, being very new
to *nix, terminal, scripting, and automation.
--- Synchronet 3.19b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

Anton Shepelev <ant@tilde.culb> wrote:

yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> wrote:

ant@tilde.club writes:

~/.cancelsecret

. o O ( Cryyyyyy!!! )
<o>
|
/ \

GNUS puts the cancel stuff in ... guess three times ... not '~/.gnus'
or an other of the GNUSish files or something in '~/.emacs.d' ... it
is in the custom variables hidden in '~/.emacs' and so I've lost some
of my early cancel keys over cleaning up my Emacs configuration.

Outch and grouch. Do cancel messages make sense in modern Usenet with
fast propagation?

In some groups with threads that will be read still in months too it may
make sense, but sometimes replies come in faster than expected. In most
cases I need a supersede instead of a cancel, but the same problem is
the same. So unless it is absolutely necessary to cancel or supersede,
I "update" my stuff by replying to my own posts now. This has its own drawbacks, e.g. others may reply to one of my posts first and then see
the update.

In place changes (supersede, wikis, ...) yield other problems. Version
control systems to roll back everything are only marginally helpful in discussions, only few readers would look at the history of a VCS-ed
text.

There may not be a simple solution for this at all.
--
4. Hitchhiker 11:
(72) "Watch the road!'' she yelped.
(73) "Shit!"
--- Synchronet 3.19b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> wrote:

Anton Shepelev <ant@tilde.culb> wrote:

Outch and grouch. Do cancel messages make sense in modern Usenet with
fast propagation?

In some groups with threads that will be read still in months too it may
make sense, but sometimes replies come in faster than expected. In most cases I need a supersede instead of a cancel, but the same problem is
the same. So unless it is absolutely necessary to cancel or supersede,
I "update" my stuff by replying to my own posts now. This has its own drawbacks, e.g. others may reply to one of my posts first and then see
the update.

Last time I consulted my Usenet provider about cancel messages, they
said they were de-factor obsolete because rarely if ever respected on
severs to which the article has propagated.

In place changes (supersede, wikis, ...) yield other problems. Version control systems to roll back everything are only marginally helpful in discussions, only few readers would look at the history of a VCS-ed
text.

Yes. Version control is mostly for the author.

There may not be a simple solution for this at all.

Replying to your own messages seems ok for two reasons:

1. it encourages your to edit and compose more thoroughly, to save the
bother of posting errata,

2. immutable messages somehow seem more genuine.

In-place ediding is for texts that do not constitute discussion.
--- Synchronet 3.19b-Linux NewsLink 1.113

Anton Shepelev <ant@tilde.culb> writes:

Patricia Ferreira <pferreira@example.com> wrote:

yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> writes:

ant@tilde.club writes:

Sypheed (a graphical mail client-and-new client), too, is easily
configured to store both config and data in the same directory.

\o/ ___( ++! )

Hey. Do you guys use Sylpheed? I like it too, but on my Windows 10,
it seems not to respect my Windows keyboard configuration. I reported
the fact at

https://github.com/sylpheed-mail/sylpheed/issues/42

I wonder if you guys have any suggestion. Thank you! .

Yes, I use Sylpheed and like it, with both ru and us keyboard layouts on Windows and Linux. Can you make sure they keyboard problem you describe
is specific to Sylpheed and is not objseved in other GTK2 applications,
or native X applications, such as Xterm? Chrome is not the best
reference...

Hey. I tried Claws Mail with GTK+ 2.24.33 / GLib 2.66.8.

--8<-------------------------------------------------------->8---
System Information
GTK+ 2.24.33 / GLib 2.66.8
Locale: en_US (charset: ISO-8859-1)
Operating System: Win32 --8<-------------------------------------------------------->8---

No problem. It shows ``ç'' just fine. So we cannot put the blame on
GTK2. So I don't know what it is. By the way, I updated the issue on
Github:

https://github.com/sylpheed-mail/sylpheed/issues/42

No luck. What I find most interesting is that people running the same
Sylpheed version on Windows 11 are not able to reproduce the problem.

Thanks for your help! I appreciate it.
--- Synchronet 3.19b-Linux NewsLink 1.113