• test

    From Denis Mosko@1:153/757.1315 to Alan Ianson on Sat Feb 27 13:27:20 2021
    Subj.

    2All:
    Reply by netmail with klusges, please.


    --- WinPoint Beta 5 (359.1)
    * Origin: WinPoint (1:153/757.1315)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Denis Mosko on Sun Feb 28 23:07:46 2021
    Hello Denis,

    Reply by netmail with klusges, please.

    I did reply by netmail. You'll get it on your next poll.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Alexander Koryagin@2:221/6 to All on Tue Aug 29 18:41:00 2023
    Hi, All!

    Bye, All!
    Alexander Koryagin

    ---
    * Origin: nntp://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/6.0)
  • From Nil A@2:5015/46 to Alexander Koryagin on Tue Aug 29 20:36:34 2023
    Hello, Alexander!

    Tuesday August 29 2023 18:41, from Alexander Koryagin -> All:

    Alexander Koryagin

    Can see your message.

    Best Regards, Nil
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5
    * Origin: Linux 2.6.32-042stab145.3 (2:5015/46)
  • From Ardith Hinton@1:153/716 to Alexander Koryagin on Wed Aug 30 01:46:15 2023
    Hi, Alexander! Recently you wrote in a message to All:

    Hi, All!

    Bye, All!
    Alexander Koryagin


    Welcome back.... :-)




    --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)
  • From Alexander Koryagin@2:221/6 to Ardith Hinton on Wed Aug 30 17:12:04 2023
    Hi, Ardith Hinton! -> Alexander Koryagin!
    I read your message from 30.08.2023 03:46

    Welcome back.... :-)

    Actually, as I see now, the gate news.dewy.ru has eaten my messages for some time, although you can read them. Tommi's gate is working well.

    BTW, have you seen my messages about barrels of apples and Cinderella's ashes? ;-)

    Bye, Ardith!
    Alexander Koryagin
    english_tutor 2023

    ---
    * Origin: nntp://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/6.0)
  • From Ardith Hinton@1:153/716 to Nil A on Wed Aug 30 21:52:44 2023
    Hi, Nil! Recently you wrote in a message to Alexander Koryagin:

    Can see your message.


    And yes, your reply made it to the Wet Coast of Canada.... :-)




    --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)
  • From Ardith Hinton@1:153/716 to Alexander Koryagin on Wed Aug 30 23:01:03 2023
    Hi, Alexander! Recently you wrote in a message to Ardith Hinton:

    as I see now, the gate news.dewy.ru has eaten my
    messages for some time


    Hmm... I wondered what was going on there.



    Tommi's gate is working well.


    It seems I can read messages sent via Tommi's gate, as your test message was, but whatever you sent from your point address disappeared into oblivion after March 31st AFAIC.



    BTW, have you seen my messages about barrels of apples
    and Cinderella's ashes? ;-)


    No, but they sound quite intriguing. Can you repost them?

    I replied to you on April 4th explaining why I generally use the basic eight parts of speech although they require a bit of "shoehorning" at times. Hearing no response, I began to wonder if asking me to explain such matters was, to younger folks, like asking one's parents for help with long division. But years ago we often had glitches between Here & There... so I reminded myself not to take it personally. And as time went by I noticed a dearth of mail from you & others I know in a number of echomail areas. :-Q




    --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to ALEXANDER KORYAGIN on Thu Aug 31 07:42:00 2023
    BTW, have you seen my messages about barrels of apples and Cinderella's ashes?
    ;-)

    I don't know about Ardith, but I don't remember seeing one about either of those. Hope that helps.

    Mike


    * SLMR 2.1a * I'm easy to please ... as long as I get my way
    --- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
    * Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)
  • From Alexander Koryagin@2:221/6 to Ardith Hinton on Thu Aug 31 20:33:38 2023
    Hi, Ardith Hinton! -> Alexander Koryagin
    I read your message from 31.08.2023 01:01

    BTW, have you seen my messages about barrels of apples and
    Cinderella's ashes? ;-)

    No, but they sound quite intriguing. Can you repost them?

    Well, it started when I read a Russian humorous novel "The Little Golden Calf". The main hero of that novel (his name is Bender, a great swindler personification) had learnt that a certain man (Koreyko), who looked perfectly ordinary, was in reality a great swindler and surreptitious millionaire. Bender was penniless, and he decided to investigate the Koreyko's frauds and get a million roubles blackmailing him. At first Bender decided to upset the Koreyko's balance and make him nervous. And he sent him some telegrams, like this:

    "LOAD ORANGES IN BARRELS"

    It sounds confusing and crazy in Russian, and I have thought for a long time it is crazy in English too. But all of a sudden I heard on American TV like this:

    "Bad apple spoils barrel".

    Aha, I thought, now I know where they load apples in barrels, not baskets, and probably they load oranges in the same way, too. So, Bender probably knew some English. ;-)

    Bye, Ardith!
    Alexander Koryagin
    english_tutor 2023

    ---
    * Origin: nntp://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/6.0)
  • From Ardith Hinton@1:153/716 to Alexander Koryagin on Sat Sep 2 22:04:25 2023
    Hi, Alexander! Recently you wrote in a message to Ardith Hinton:

    At first Bender decided to upset the Koreyko's balance
    and make him nervous. And he sent him some telegrams,
    like this:

    "LOAD ORANGES IN BARRELS"

    It sounds confusing and crazy in Russian, and I have
    thought for a long time it is crazy in English too.


    Perhaps Bender meant this stuff to come across as a riddle, a secret code, and/or the ravings of a madman in order to upset Koreyko? :-)



    But all of a sudden I heard on American TV like this:

    "Bad apple spoils barrel".

    Aha, I thought, now I know where they load apples in
    barrels, not baskets, and probably they load oranges
    in the same way, too. So, Bender probably knew some
    English. ;-)


    ... even if he did the expression may simply not translate well. I first heard it as a teenager when it was clearly being used in a metaphorical sense to refer to one of my fellow students. The way I heard it was "one bad apple spoils the whole barrel [i.e. the whole kit & kaboodle]".

    Years ago hand-picked fruits & vegetables were loaded into baskets, then transferred to wooden crates or barrels for shipping elsewhere. Grocery stores often displayed their wares in such containers... whereas nowadays you would be more likely to see cardboard cartons used for this purpose. But the principle is the same: a rotten piece of fruit can easily infect others. :-Q




    --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)
  • From Alexander Koryagin@2:221/6 to Ardith Hinton on Tue Sep 5 09:09:52 2023
    Hi, Ardith Hinton! -> Alexander Koryagin
    I read your message from 03.09.2023 00:04

    At first Bender decided to upset the Koreyko's balance and make
    him nervous. And he sent him some telegrams, like this:

    "LOAD ORANGES IN BARRELS"

    It sounds confusing and crazy in Russian, and I have thought for a
    long time it is crazy in English too.

    Perhaps Bender meant this stuff to come across as a riddle, a
    secret code, and/or the ravings of a madman in order to upset
    Koreyko? :-)

    Yes, probably. He even said to his accomplice to pretend to be a ragged, mad beggar and follow Koreyko asking him "Give me a million, give me a million!" ;)

    But all of a sudden I heard on American TV like this:
    "Bad apple spoils barrel".

    Aha, I thought, now I know where they load apples in barrels, not
    baskets, and probably they load oranges in the same way, too. So,
    Bender probably knew some English. ;-)

    ... even if he did the expression may simply not translate well. I
    first heard it as a teenager when it was clearly being used in a metaphorical sense to refer to one of my fellow students. The way I
    heard it was "one bad apple spoils the whole barrel [i.e. the whole
    kit & kaboodle]".

    Years ago hand-picked fruits & vegetables were loaded into baskets,
    then transferred to wooden crates or barrels for shipping
    elsewhere. Grocery stores often displayed their wares in such containers... whereas nowadays you would be more likely to eee
    cardboard cartons used for this purpose. But the principle is the
    same: a rotten piece of fruit can easily infect others.: - Q

    Although it is strange a bit when you put next "wooden crates/barrels". Crates have gaps between planks and fruits feel better in such condition. But if we put apples (or oranges) into a barrel... IMHO it is a bad idea. ;)

    Bye, Ardith!
    Alexander Koryagin
    english_tutor 2023

    ---
    * Origin: nntp://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/6.0)
  • From Ardith Hinton@1:153/716 to Alexander Koryagin on Sun Sep 17 16:52:18 2023
    Hi, Alexander! Recently you wrote in a message to Ardith Hinton:

    Years ago hand-picked fruits & vegetables were loaded into
    baskets, then transferred to wooden crates or barrels for
    shipping elsewhere. Grocery stores often displayed their
    wares in such containers... whereas nowadays you would be
    more likely to see cardboard cartons used for this purpose.
    But the principle is the same: a rotten piece of fruit can
    easily infect others. :-Q


    Although it is strange a bit when you put next
    | a bit strange

    "wooden crates/barrels". Crates have gaps between planks and
    fruits feel better in such condition. But if we put apples
    (or oranges) into a barrel... IMHO it is a bad idea. ;)


    Uh-huh. In my experience some fruits & veggies do "keep" better if they can get a bit of air, and the crates I remember seeing as a child which were originally used to contain apples or oranges had gaps between the top & bottom boards. Maybe what we have here is an idea which has gained momentum during the past century or so. If shopkeepers opened barrels upon arrival & Farmer Brown employed gently-used barrels (minus lids) to keep apples in his root cellar, it may have taken awhile for people to realize the fruit in the bottom of the barrel might not fare so well & to understand why. What I see nowadays is cardboard boxes with holes at strategic intervals where I reckon they'd allow air to get in & make it fairly easy to remove the lids.... :-)




    --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)
  • From Gleb Hlebov@2:221/6 to All on Tue Nov 21 12:37:12 2023
    Hello,
    just testing the area.

    I don't see the messages posted from my fidonet AKA
    in some recent days .

    --
    Tue, 21 Nov 2023 14:33:56 +0400

    ---
    * Origin: nntp://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/6.0)
  • From Alexander Koryagin@2:221/6 to Gleb Hlebov on Tue Nov 21 15:02:08 2023
    Hi, Gleb Hlebov - All!
    I read your message from 21.11.2023 13:37

    Hello,
    just testing the area.
    I don't se the messages poosted from my fidonet AKA
    in some recent days .

    I see you.

    Bye, Gleb!
    Alexander Koryagin
    english_tutor 2023

    ---
    * Origin: nntp://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/6.0)
  • From Gleb Hlebov@2:221/6 to Alexander Koryagin on Wed Nov 22 08:21:16 2023
    Alexander once wrote:

    I don't se the messages poosted from my fidonet AKA
    in some recent days .
    I see you.

    Ok, I see you too (in my AKA's echomail), unfortunately I can't see
    my replies to you that I sent last night via my fido boss. Seems he
    got this echo set to read-only (I should ask him about that).
    Nevermind. I can still post like this only with a bit less comfort.
    I guess it was 2010 or 2011 when we last talked here and in RTE as
    well (I was using some other name back then). We were discussing
    some KGB stuff and how there were such good times to have fidonet and
    all those long-lasting discussions, sou you might remeber that too.
    Anyway, how's your English? and life? :-)

    ....Wed, 22 Nov 2023 09:55:02 +0400

    ---
    * Origin: nntp://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/6.0)
  • From Ardith Hinton@1:153/716 to Gleb Hlebov on Tue Nov 21 22:50:36 2023
    Hi & welcome (back), Gleb! Recently you wrote in a message to All:

    I don't see the messages posted from my fidonet
    AKA in some recent days .


    I don't see them either, but I do see this one.... :-)




    --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)
  • From Gleb Hlebov@2:221/6 to Ardith Hinton on Wed Nov 22 11:05:08 2023
    Hello, Ardith!
    You wrote lately:

    Hi & welcome (back), Gleb! Recently you wrote in a message to All:
    I don't see the messages posted from my fidonet
    AKA in some recent days .
    I don't see them either, but I do see this one.... :-)

    Good! Seems everyone can see posts from this origin. I've never used
    news readers before and it feels waaay less convenient than good old
    FTN-style readers (like GoldED).
    So I believe it's OK if I hang around here for a while... :-)


    ....Wed, 22 Nov 2023 12:43:40 +0400

    ---
    * Origin: nntp://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/6.0)
  • From Ardith Hinton@1:153/716 to Gleb Hlebov on Fri Nov 24 21:32:36 2023
    Hi, Gleb! Recently you wrote in a message to Ardith Hinton:

    Seems everyone can see posts from this origin.


    Uh-huh. Although not everyone has answered, I find Tommi's system (2:221/6 etc.) to be quite reliable. :-)



    I've never used news readers before and it feels
    waaay less convenient than good old FTN-style readers
    (like GoldED).


    Having never used either, I agree that Tommi would probably be able to give you better answers than I would because he understands his own system.



    So I believe it's OK if I hang around here for a while
    ... :-)


    I don't know if you're using your real name... but now I see you're from Russia (as I'd suspected). People from all countries are welcome in this echo, and as long as you continue to mind your manners & focus on the study of English I have no objection to your "hanging around" here for a while.... :-)




    --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)
  • From Gleb Hlebov@2:5023/24.4222 to Ardith Hinton on Sat Nov 25 18:51:34 2023
    Hello, Ardith!

    ÅΓ 24.11.23 21:32, Ardith Hinton (1:153/716) wrote to me:

    Seems everyone can see posts from this origin.
    Uh-huh. Although not everyone has answered, I find Tommi's system (2:221/6 etc.) to be quite reliable. :-)

    Yep, it's quite good and easy to access and subscribe to newsgroups and echoes, and there's a great variety of it too. And, the other day I told my fidonet boss about the issues (some echoes were set to read-only) and he had it fixed, so that hopefully I can now correspond via my regular fidonet link.

    I've never used news readers before and it feels
    waaay less convenient than good old FTN-style readers
    (like GoldED).
    Having never used either, I agree that Tommi would probably
    be able to give you better answers than I would because he understands
    his own system.

    It was just a matter of habit for me, because actually news readers are similarly easy to use. I deliberately chose a text-mode one, for some reason I avoid using GUI readers/editors for corresponding in fidonet. :-)

    So I believe it's OK if I hang around here for a while
    ... :-)
    I don't know if you're using your real name... but now I
    see you're from Russia (as I'd suspected). People from all countries
    are welcome in this echo, and as long as you continue to mind your
    manners & focus on the study of English I have no objection to your "hanging around" here for a while.... :-)

    Well, I was using a different name at that time. Now I just decided to "start over" with an updated state of mind, if you like. BTW is it okay to use "hang around" without seeming a bit too "informal", or should I have said "stay"? :-)


    Regards, Gleb | æí 25.11.23, 18:51
    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5
    * Origin: Type <sadm> to continue (2:5023/24.4222)
  • From Anton Shepelev@2:221/6 to Gleb Hlebov on Sun Nov 26 12:21:40 2023
    Gleb Hlebov:

    It was just a matter of habit for me, because actually
    news readers are similarly easy to use. I deliberately
    chose a text-mode one, for some reason I avoid using GUI
    readers/editors for corresponding in fidonet. :-)

    Great choice for FidoNet, where GUI is an anachronism, but
    why are you not hard-wrapping your text at 72 charachters
    per line or thereabout?

    BTW is it okay to use "hang around" without seeming a
    bit too "informal", or should I have said "stay"? :-)

    Surely /to hang around/ is informal unless the speaker be a
    bat or a sloth (the three-toed variety).

    ---
    * Origin: nntp://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/6.0)
  • From Gleb Hlebov@2:221/1 to Anton Shepelev on Mon Nov 27 11:06:39 2023
    On Sun, 26 Nov 2023 14:21:40, Anton Shepelev <0@6.221.2> wrote:

    It was just a matter of habit for me, because actually
    news readers are similarly easy to use. I deliberately
    chose a text-mode one, for some reason I avoid using GUI
    readers/editors for corresponding in fidonet. :-)
    Great choice for FidoNet, where GUI is an anachronism, but
    why are you not hard-wrapping your text at 72 charachters
    per line or thereabout?

    I don't know if there's even a strict rule or guideline that prescribes
    to do so. Or is there something in FTSC conventions addressing this?
    Because I recently asked about this "issue" in ru.golded and a few
    people told me it wouldn't be a good idea to hard-wrap lines to a fixed
    value, and there's no such option in GoldED's config either. I know
    that Vim can do it (as I type this text) and this is what I thought
    GoldED was capable of doing as well. However, it can only auto-wrap
    text in view mode. If you can set up your news reader to do the same it
    would solve the issue with extra-long lines.

    BTW is it okay to use "hang around" without seeming a
    bit too "informal", or should I have said "stay"? :-)
    Surely /to hang around/ is informal unless the speaker be a
    bat or a sloth (the three-toed variety).

    Oh, you be too smart. :-) Snakes can also hang upside down, and some
    monkeys, and possums too.

    --- FastEcho/2 1.46.1 Revival
    * Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/1.0)
  • From Alexander Koryagin@2:221/6 to Gleb Hlebov on Mon Nov 27 16:21:58 2023
    Hi, Gleb Hlebov - Anton Shepelev!
    I read your message from 27.11.2023 10:06

    Because I ecently asked abbout this "issue" in ru.golded and a
    few peopletold me it woulddn't be a good idea to hard-wrap
    lines to afixed value, andd there's no such option in GoldED's
    config eiter. I know ??thaat Vim can do it (as I type this
    text) and his is what I thhought GoldED was capable of doing as
    well. Howeer, it can only auto-wrap ??text in view mode. If
    you can se up your news reeader to do the same it would solve
    the issue with extra-long lines.

    It is really not a good idea. There are a lot of people with small narrow displays and long lines allow them read paragraphs correctly. Paragraphs with hard-wraps look badly in that case.

    Bye, Gleb!
    Alexander Koryagin
    english_tutor 2023

    ---
    * Origin: nntp://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/6.0)
  • From Gleb Hlebov@2:5023/24.4222 to Alexander Koryagin on Tue Nov 28 11:35:12 2023
    Hello, Alexander!

    Someone in disguise of
    Alexander Koryagin (2:221/6)
    wrote to me:

    few peopletold me it
    woulddn't be a good idea
    to hard-wrap lines to
    afixed value, andd
    there's no such option in
    GoldED's config eiter.
    It is really not a good
    idea. There are a lot of
    people with small narrow
    displays and long lines
    allow them read paragraphs
    correctly. Paragraphs with
    hard-wraps look badly in
    that case.

    Exactly how small and narrow?
    Are there so many users that
    can not set their terminal
    window width at least at 80
    columns? Do you know any of
    them personally? Maybe someone
    who uses a Commodore or a ZX
    Spectrum?
    This is how our msgs would
    appear formatted to fit a
    Speccy screen. :-)


    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5
    * Origin: & (2:5023/24.4222)
  • From Anton Shepelev@2:221/6 to Gleb Hlebov on Tue Nov 28 11:29:02 2023
    Gleb Hlebov to Anton Shepelev:

    but why are you not hard-wrapping your text at 72
    charachters per line or thereabout?

    I don't know if there's even a strict rule or guideline
    that prescribes to do so.

    I believer FidoNet follows the convensions for BBS, Usenet,
    and e-mail, where text should be hard-wrapped to about 72
    characters per line, because the standard does not require
    client programs to support any wrapping on the receiving end
    while displaying articles. Those who need wrapping shall
    use format=lowed:

    https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc2646

    which is essentially the same hard-wrapped text but an extra
    space at the end of each line to indicate that clients /may/
    rewrap it if the support it, but they are not required to do
    so, because the format is backwards-compatible and still
    usable in classic readers that display text as is. Simply
    using one line per paragraph is non-standard and wrong.

    I for one invariable use hard-wrapped text because it is
    beautiful, device-independent, and widely supported by
    clients and text editors. It guarrantees my text looks the
    way I wrote it.

    Or is there something in FTSC conventions addressing
    this?

    I will have to look it up.

    I recently asked about this "issue" in ru.golded and a
    few people told me it wouldn't be a good idea to hard-
    wrap lines to a fixed value, and there's no such option
    in GoldED's config either.

    Do they say one line per paragraph has been the FidoNet
    convention back from 1980s? It doubt it can be true,
    because the rest of the world relied on hard-wrapped text
    for all communication.

    I know that Vim can do it (as I type this text) and this
    is what I thought GoldED was capable of doing as well.

    Vim is in fact specifically /designed/ to work with with
    hard-wrapped text, whereas configuring it for soft wrapping
    takes extra effort and even then is not as comfortable.

    If you can set up your news reader to do the same it
    would solve the issue with extra-long lines.

    My newsreader is already wrappeing long lines, but it does
    not help. They are too wide, forcing me to squeeze the
    window to get a comfortable line length.

    BTW is it okay to use "hang around" without seeming a
    bit too "informal", or should I have said "stay"? :-)

    Surely /to hang around/ is informal unless the speaker
    be a bat or a sloth (the three-toed variety).

    Oh, you be too smart. :-) Snakes can also hang upside
    down, and some monkeys, and possums too.

    Sure, but those other critters are not the hang-around
    types.

    ---
    * Origin: nntp://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/6.0)
  • From Anton Shepelev@2:221/6 to Alexander Koryagin on Tue Nov 28 11:32:20 2023
    Alexander Koryagin:

    There are a lot of people with small narrow displays and
    long lines allow them read paragraphs correctly.
    Paragraphs with hard-wraps look badly in that case.

    Following BBSes, FidoNet software assumed the user had at
    least the standard ISO screen, that is 80x24 characters.
    All modern videocards support that textmode, and all modern
    displays have good-enough resolution to display an
    80-character line of text.

    ---
    * Origin: nntp://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/6.0)
  • From Anton Shepelev@2:221/6 to Anton Shepelev on Tue Nov 28 12:21:20 2023
    I wrote to Gleb Hlebov:

    Or is there something in FTSC conventions addressing
    this?

    I will have to look it up.

    FSC-0001 has:

    A 'hard' carriage return, 0DH, marks the end of a
    paragraph, and must be preserved.

    So called 'soft' carriage returns, 8DH, may mark a
    previous processor's automatic line wrap, and should be
    ignored. Beware that they may be followed by linefeeds,
    or may not.

    All linefeeds, 0AH, should be ignored. Systems which
    display message text should wrap long lines to suit their
    application.

    But how come the FSC-0001 itself it not written in the
    FidoNet format?--

    <http://ftsc.org/docs/fts-0001.016>

    ---
    * Origin: nntp://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/6.0)
  • From Alexander Koryagin@2:221/6 to Gleb Hlebov on Tue Nov 28 16:07:20 2023
    Hi, Gleb Hlebov - Alexander Koryagin!
    I read your message from 28.11.2023 08:35

    few peopletold me it
    woulddn't be a good idea
    to hard-wrap lines to
    afixed value, andd
    there's no such option in
    GoldED's config eiter.
    It is really not a good
    idea. There are a lot of
    people with small narrow
    displays and long lines
    allow them read paragraphs
    correctly. Paragraphs with
    hard-wraps look badly in
    that case.
    Exactly how small and narrow?
    Are there so many users that
    can not set their terminal
    window width at least at 80
    columns? Do you know any of
    ??them personally? Maybe someone
    who uses a Commodore or a ZX
    Spectrum?
    This is how our msgs would
    appear formatted to fit a
    Speccy screen. :-)

    I meant that when all paragraphs are sent as long lines they don't need formatting at all and look good at any device.

    Bye, Gleb!
    Alexander Koryagin
    english_tutor 2023

    ---
    * Origin: nntp://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/6.0)
  • From Alexander Koryagin@2:221/6 to Anton Shepelev on Tue Nov 28 16:24:16 2023
    Hi, Anton Shepelev - Alexander Koryagin!
    I read your message from 28.11.2023 10:32

    There area lot of people with small narrow displays and
    long line allow them readd paragraphs correctly.
    Paragraph with hard-wrapss look badly in that case.
    Following BSes, FidoNet sooftware assumed the user had at
    least the tandard ISO screeen, that is 80x24 characters.
    All modernvideocards suppoort that textmode, and all modern
    displays hve good-enough rresolution to display an
    80-character line of text.

    Most modern devices have small screens, for instance, smart phones, tablet computers. Their users use soft like Microsoft windows when they can choose large symbol fonts. If you want to surprise them unpleasantly you can format your text by 80 symbols. ;)

    Bye, Anton!
    Alexander Koryagin
    english_tutor 2023

    ---
    * Origin: nntp://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/6.0)
  • From Gleb Hlebov@2:5023/24.4222 to Anton Shepelev on Wed Nov 29 09:13:14 2023
    Hello Anton,

    An entity in disguise of Anton Shepelev (2:221/6) wrote to me:

    https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc2646

    [...]

    In other words... "It's complicated". :-)
    This hard-wrap thing really is a mess. An ordinary user gets confused because opinions differ so drastically.

    I for one invariable use hard-wrapped text because it is
    beautiful, device-independent, and widely supported by
    clients and text editors. It guarrantees my text looks the
    way I wrote it.

    I can see. On occasions when I use tin (news client for GNU/Linux terminal) in a window wider than 100 columns (usually it's 100 to 140, which is reasonable having all this screen estate) all unwrapped lines just spread over to the right border (and that alone sucks). To make matters worse, it doesn't seem to have a word-wrap option, the only instance I've found in its config is "wrap_column=XX" which obviously wraps all columns wider than XX, thus forcing to break apart words too. Imagine when it does this with 2-char words, like prepositions and such.

    I know that Vim can do it (as I type this text) and this
    is what I thought GoldED was capable of doing as well.
    Vim is in fact specifically /designed/ to work with with
    hard-wrapped text, whereas configuring it for soft wrapping
    takes extra effort and even then is not as comfortable.

    I'm no Vim expert at all, but it is really powerful when it comes to text manipulation of any kind. The ultimate downside is its concepts being "the utter opposite of user-friendly", it has a ton of cryptic one-char commands and its combinations that you either have to memorize or refer to a kind of "cheat sheet" every now and then.

    If you can set up your news reader to do the same it
    would solve the issue with extra-long lines.
    My newsreader is already wrappeing long lines, but it does
    not help. They are too wide, forcing me to squeeze the
    window to get a comfortable line length.

    At least you can "squeeze" it when you're using a GUI viewer, which doesn't make sense with GoldED. Although it seems to work in a Linux terminal window with most text-mode applications.


    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5
    * Origin: Type <sadm> to continue (2:5023/24.4222)
  • From Anton Shepelev@2:221/6 to Gleb Hlebov on Sun Dec 3 01:05:10 2023
    Gleb Hlebov:

    This is how our msgs would appear formatted to fit a
    Speccy screen. :-)

    It depends. The translation of Star Heritage in which I
    participated uses 40 characters perline, with a one-
    characgter margin on the left and right, so a full line is
    42 characters:

    https://freeshell.de/~antonius/img_host/sh-ingame.gif

    Alone Coder's Assembler (Alasm) has a wider line and
    narrower font:

    https://worldofspectrum.net/pub/sinclair/screens/in-game/a/ALASM.gif

    Anyway, FidoNet was not designed for ZX Spectrum...

    ---
    * Origin: nntp://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/6.0)
  • From Anton Shepelev@2:221/6 to Alexander Koryagin on Sun Dec 3 01:17:46 2023
    Alexander Koryagin:

    I meant that when all paragraphs are sent as
    long lines they don't need formatting at all
    and look good at any device.

    No, they need wrapping in the client software,
    which becomes quite complicated with the various
    quotation prefixes. This is why the task of for-
    matting is properly given to the text edi-
    tor -- the program specialising in formatting
    text, whereas the client should display articles
    as-is. My Groff may be using hyphenation and spe-
    cial word-breaking rules to produce an aestheti-
    cally pleasing text not meant to be rewrapped.

    ---
    * Origin: nntp://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/6.0)
  • From Carlos Navarro@2:341/234.1 to Anton Shepelev on Sun Dec 3 14:20:53 2023
    28 Nov 2023 12:21, you wrote to you:

    [...]
    All linefeeds, 0AH, should be ignored. Systems which
    display message text should wrap long lines to suit their
    application.

    But how come the FSC-0001 itself it not written in the
    FidoNet format?--

    <http://ftsc.org/docs/fts-0001.016>

    Because it is a text file, not a Fidonet message :-)

    Carlos

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: cyberiada (2:341/234.1)
  • From Anton Shepelev@2:221/6 to Carlos Navarro on Mon Dec 4 11:25:44 2023
    Carlos Navarro to Anton Shepelev:

    But how come the FSC-0001 itself it not written in the
    FidoNet format?--

    <http://ftsc.org/docs/fts-0001.016>

    Because it is a text file, not a Fidonet message :-)

    Right, but there is no such discrepancy in BBS, Usenet, or
    e-mail. Have you a been a long time in Fidonet, has it
    always (or at least since 1995) used soft-wrapped text?

    ---
    * Origin: nntp://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/6.0)
  • From Gleb Hlebov@2:5023/24.4222 to Carlos Navarro on Tue Dec 5 14:52:42 2023
    Hello Carlos,

    <Sun 03-12-2023 14:20> Carlos Navarro <2:341/234.1> vs. Anton Shepelev:

    All linefeeds, 0AH, should be ignored. Systems which
    display message text should wrap long lines to suit their
    application.
    But how come the FSC-0001 itself it not written in the
    FidoNet format?--
    <http://ftsc.org/docs/fts-0001.016>
    Because it is a text file, not a Fidonet message :-)

    There are a few documents formatted for printing, obviously, hence the justified paragraphs. The rest of them are mostly 70 cols.


    *********************************************************************
    FTSC FIDONET TECHNICAL STANDARDS COMMITTEE *********************************************************************

    Publication: FSP-1041.001
    Revision: 1
    Title: The BEER nodelist flag
    Author(s): FTSC Members, Administrator and Honoured Guests
    Issue Date: 01 April 2018 =====================================================================


    --
    WBR, Gleb <Tue 05-12-2023 14:52>
    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5
    * Origin: Type <sadm> to continue (2:5023/24.4222)
  • From Carlos Navarro@2:341/234.1 to Anton Shepelev on Wed Dec 6 20:57:40 2023
    04 Dec 2023 11:25, you wrote to me:

    But how come the FSC-0001 itself it not written in the
    FidoNet format?--

    <http://ftsc.org/docs/fts-0001.016>

    Because it is a text file, not a Fidonet message :-)

    Right, but there is no such discrepancy in BBS, Usenet, or
    e-mail. Have you a been a long time in Fidonet, has it
    always (or at least since 1995) used soft-wrapped text?

    I started as a point in 1992. I mostly used FrontDoor's editor (FM) and timEd. Both support(ed) long lines and wrapped text.

    Carlos

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: cyberiada (2:341/234.1)
  • From Carlos Navarro@2:341/234.1 to Gleb Hlebov on Wed Dec 6 21:02:14 2023
    05 Dec 2023 14:52, you wrote to me:

    But how come the FSC-0001 itself it not written in the
    FidoNet format?--
    <http://ftsc.org/docs/fts-0001.016>
    Because it is a text file, not a Fidonet message :-)

    There are a few documents formatted for printing, obviously, hence the justified paragraphs. The rest of them are mostly 70 cols.

    From FTA-1002 (Document Submission and Publication Standard):

    3.2 Document Formatting
    -----------------------

    Major Header titles and Introductory text alignment are to be left
    flush (i.e. starting at the leftmost column) with a maximum line
    length of 70 columns (excluding the line terminator), to permit easy
    conversion to a Fidonews posting.


    Carlos

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: cyberiada (2:341/234.1)
  • From Gleb Hlebov@2:5023/24.4222 to Carlos Navarro on Thu Dec 7 09:32:36 2023
    Hello Carlos,

    <Wed 06-12-2023 21:02> Carlos Navarro <2:341/234.1> vs. me:

    <http://ftsc.org/docs/fts-0001.016>
    Because it is a text file, not a Fidonet message :-)
    There are a few documents formatted for printing, obviously,
    hence the justified paragraphs. The rest of them are mostly 70
    cols.
    From FTA-1002 (Document Submission and Publication Standard):
    3.2 Document Formatting

    Okay, this is correct, but it was first published in 1997, whereas
    ftsc-0001 (which was "justified pretty") was published in 1995.
    Just a nerdy remark. :-)


    --
    WBR, Gleb <Thu 07-12-2023 09:32>
    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5
    * Origin: Type <sadm> to continue (2:5023/24.4222)
  • From Gleb Hlebov@2:5023/24.4222 to Carlos Navarro on Thu Dec 7 09:39:10 2023
    Hello Carlos,

    <Wed 06-12-2023 20:57> Carlos Navarro <2:341/234.1> vs. Anton Shepelev:

    Right, but there is no such discrepancy in BBS, Usenet, or
    e-mail. Have you a been a long time in Fidonet, has it
    always (or at least since 1995) used soft-wrapped text?
    I started as a point in 1992. I mostly used FrontDoor's editor (FM)
    and timEd. Both support(ed) long lines and wrapped text.

    I believe the idea of long lines (i.e. one paragraph = one line) has always been there since the advent of IBM PC and MS-DOS and so BBS tech (and, later in 1984, Fidonet) inherited it for its text-processing needs. BBSes first appeared even before that, in late 1970s, and run on CP/M systems (CP/M technically was a predecessor of DOS).
    However Usenet/e-mail/internet-related stuff originated in Unix world and *nix system standards and/or Usenet policy could be different. I'm not sure why AS keeps referring to "BBS and Usenet" in this regard. :-)


    --
    WBR, Gleb <Thu 07-12-2023 09:39>
    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5
    * Origin: Type <sadm> to continue (2:5023/24.4222)
  • From Ardith Hinton@1:153/716 to Gleb Hlebov on Sun Feb 25 10:20:10 2024
    Hi, Gleb! Recently you wrote in a message to Ardith Hinton:

    BTW is it okay to use "hang around" without seeming a bit
    too "informal", or should I have said "stay"? :-)


    Once upon a time I was taught to use formal English & I think the same also applies to many others here.

    In echomail we tend to write less formally, as native speakers do when they don't have to prove anything to Miss Stickler or whomever. If you feel more comfortable with informal terms that's okay AFAIC. If you've made what others see as usage errors & they try to help that's okay here as well. However, I was not objecting to your vocabulary. The words you used tell me significantly more than the alternative in your question.

    WRT this example, I used quotation marks to inform you I'd regard "hang around" as colloquial. Not all dictionaries mention such things. :-)




    --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)