Hi, Anton Shepelev! -> Alexander Koryagin
I read your message from 24.02.2021 01:18

<skipped>

You don't understand -- most Russian people should gain skills in
quick word processing if they want to understand quick English
speech.

First, your recommendation is not entirely exact, because learners
need to train their speech-recognition (word-processing, as you
call them) skills in the language they are learning. There is no
such thing as the general, languageagnostic speech-recognition
skills. Second, your advice is true for any other learner of any
other language.

I just told my thoughts on this account, to fill empty lines. ;-) Although the fact that Englishmen talk words quicker than Russians is obvious when we watch American movies.

I should never recommend this with real speech, because that way
you lose all emotional content. While remastering

When my aim is focused on training my speed skills I don't pay too
much attention on such details.

Good for you, but I grow bored and disgusted when exposed to
second-rate content. When the material is good, however, learning
anything becomes a pleasure.

For instance, when I read textbooks I have no pleasure, but I know they are useful. A great subject is not necessary. For instance, I read now
"The Gun Seller" by Hugh Laurie. A usual not very bright subject, but the language is super, great, marvellous and original. I enjoy it, and I strongly recommend you to read it.

Besides -- you can watch two time more shows and movies.

Good for you, but I go for quality instead of quantity.

I train my hearing skills, forgot?

It is shame to spend time watching serials - >

I should agree if your sentence ended here, but you continue:

- > in Russian, but if you speed them up you waste less time and
get more hearing skills.

You mean TV series? English or Russian ones? In my opinion, TV
series almost never rise to the level of art and remain a sort of
cultural cud.

Somebody in heaven and under earth like serials very much. All life on Earth is a big serial. Besides, there are some serials in Russia which are very pretty, stylish and certainly are worth to be seen once. For instance, the serial about a cool, stylish Russian fashion firm and quite ugly, but very clever girl who went to work there. Speed it up by 1.5 times and you will have a good hearing training, without boredom.

I did moderately enjoy "Downton Abbey", though, when
it was screened on our "Kultura" channel, ad-free. Most good TV
series are by today's measures either very short or otherwise non- conventional, e.g. the original Rod Serling's "Twilight Zone", or
Tatiana Lioznova's "Seventeen moments in spring."

Certainly I have some reserve if I buy a new TV set. ;-)

IMHO, first, a learner should learn how to hear and understand
quick speech. Then he can enjoy emotions.

I beg to differ, for emotions facilitate both understanding and
learing.

You can try to be emotional and waste less time. In general watching TV is a waste of time whatever you watch. ;-)

Bye, Anton!
Alexander Koryagin
english_tutor 2021

---
* Origin: nntp://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/6.0)

Hi, Anton Shepelev! -> Alexander Koryagin
I read your message from 25.02.2021 12:21

When they (the Russian animators) record sound they very
often speed up voices and dialogues. A funny film de-
mands speed and dynamic. Our famous Winnie-the-Poor also
speaks quicker than the actor who voiced him.

I forgot so remark that it was done not to add speed and dy-
namics, but to change the timber of the voice: Eugeniy
Leonov spoke slowly, so that the sped-up version would have
normal tempo but increased pitch.

No -- this animation is very old -- at that time they could not increase pitch without changing tempo. Such possibility had appeared only after appearing powerful computers.

Bye, Anton!
Alexander Koryagin
english_tutor 2021

---
* Origin: nntp://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/6.0)

Alexander Koryagin to Anton Shepelev:

I forgot so remark that it was done not to add speed
and dynamics, but to change the timber of the voice:
Eugeniy Leonov spoke slowly, so that the sped-up ver-
sion would have normal tempo but increased pitch.

No -- this animation is very old

Not very old if you compare it to the first animations of
Alexander Shiryaev made in 1906 :-)

at that time they could not increase pitch without
changing tempo. Such possibility had appeared only after
appearing powerful computers.

You misunderstood me. The voice actor spoke at a lowered
tempo. When they played it back at higher speed, the result
was normal tempo and a higher pitch.

---
* Origin: nntp://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/6.0)

Alexander Koryagin to Anton Shepelev:

Although the fact that Englishmen talk words quicker
than Russians is obvious when we watch American movies.

Well, I certainly do not get that impression from such TV
shows as "What's my line?" and "You bet your life". But I do
have trouble understading English speech -- for want of
practice, no doubt.

For instance, when I read textbooks I have no pleasure,
but I know they are useful.

I try to pick enjoyable textbooks that are a pleasure to
read, such as the grammars by Nesfield, Baskerville &
Sewell, and Goold Brown. Or open that famous book on calcu-
lus -- Chrystal's "Algebra" -- to see why it is a standard
recommendation for all programmers: Crystal shows, and by
example encourages, crystal-clear reasoning.

A great subject is not necessary.

I never said it was. If fact, I agree with Akira Kurosawa in
that it is not the plot, but the execution of the plot. Ray-
mond Chandler put it simpler: a good plot is one that makes
for good scenes.

For instance, I read now "The Gun Seller" by Hugh Lau-
rie. A usual not very bright subject, but the language
is super, great, marvellous and original.

Not now, but I will.

[after looking it up in Wikipedia]
Whooops: I see it is very recent, and not a short story but
a novel. Usually I do not read books by living authors to
avoid any hype and let the cultural aftermath settle down.
It is easier for me to start from a short story, as it does
not require a serious commitment of time. Speaking of Hugh
Laurie, I am more likely to try P.G. Wodehouse's stories
about the immortal Jeeves & Wooster.

Somebody in heaven and under earth like serials very
much. All life on Earth is a big serial. Besides, there
are some serials in Russia which are very pretty,
stylish and certainly are worth to be seen once. For in-
stance, the serial about a cool, stylish Russian fashion
firm and quite ugly, but very clever girl who went to
work there. Speed it up by 1.5 times and you will have a
good hearing training, without boredom.

I am sorry, but any modern Russian TV series means boredom
to me: no acting, no sound, no cinematography, no varation.
They give me neither spiritual nor aesthetical gratifica-
tion. I feel deeply ashamed for the state of the film indus-
try in my country. One need only watch the excellent "The
Lark" (1965) and its horrible modern remake commercially
named "T-34" (2019) to realise the depth of degeneration.
Only low-budget or no-budget indie movies sometimes manage
to come out any good, but they very rare.

---
* Origin: nntp://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/6.0)

Hi, Alexander! Recently you wrote in a message to Ardith Hinton:

I applaud your courage too, because generating language
requires a much higher order of skill than understanding
it & when you're speaking aloud you don't have time to
consult a dictionary or a grammar book....

Another problem, as I had said once, is that the Russian
language consists of longer words than English, and
because of it a Russian thinks and understands slower. ;-)

The English language dropped many inflections during the Middle Ages, and this trend continues with e.g. the use of the word "actor" to describe both males & females. It doesn't necessarily result in shorter words. But the pace of modern life seems to be increasing as we speak... I catch myself leaving out periods from abbreviations like "BC" because that is how others spell them. At the same time, I count myself among those who take awhile to think & understand
... as I do when folks like you & Anton ask really, really good questions. :-)

So, for training hearing skills a Russian should start
hearing all the Russian video show and movies sped up
by 1.5-2 times.

Maybe. A friend of ours who is totally blind can make sense of stuff read aloud in English by a computer far more easily than Dallas & I can. But I notice also that when native speakers of a foreign language address one another the pace is usually too quick for me to keep up with even if I have studied the language for some time. I'm not sure this skill would be transferable.... :-)

I am a morning person when I go to my office. I can
secretly type some messages to FIDO behind my colleges
backs, but it is hardly possible to do Skype talks,
without having round eyes around. ;-)

I thought it might be something like that. One of the things I enjoy about Fidonet is that we get a bunch of mail in the morning, from people on the same continent, and a bunch more in the evening from people on others. Just as there are people who leap out of bed at 5:00 AM & go jogging for an hour before getting ready for work, there are people who check their Fidonet mail every day as soon as they're awake enough to take it in. Some apparently type up a storm immediately. But that's not my style, and I gather it's not yours either. :-)

On weekend, of course, I like to sleep more than usual.

Ah. You're a morning person on weekdays because that's what you have to do to earn a living. Dallas & I have been there too.

When I switched to the elementary level, others commented on how much healthier I looked. My starting time there, BTW, was somewhat later. :-)

maybe at 9am Moscow Time on Sunday it can be the window,
while you have 10pm.

Hmm. By my calculations you are eleven hours ahead of us... at least until Daylight Saving Time kicks in. Unfortunately, however, Dallas & I aren't available nowadays on weekends when others are. For us a Tuesday or a Thursday eening would be better. Perhaps you have some holidays which differ from ours? Monday or Wednesday evening might also work if your timing is flexible.... :-)




--- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
* Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)

Hi, Ardith Hinton! -> Alexander Koryagin
I read your message from 28.02.2021 22:36

I applaud your courage too, because generating language requires a
much higher order of skill than understanding it & when you're
speaking aloud you don't have time to consult a dictionary or a
grammar book....

Another problem, as I had said once, is that the Russian language
consists of longer words than English, and because of it a Russian
thinks and understands slower.

The English language dropped many inflections during the Middle
Ages, and this trend continues with e.g. the use of the
word "actor" to describe both males & females. It doesn't
necessarily result in shorter words. But the pace of modern life
seems to be increasing as we speak... I catch myself leaving out
periods from abbreviations like "BC" because that is how others
spell them. At the same time, I count myself among those who take
awhile to think & understand.. as I do when folks like you & Anton
ask really, really good questions.

Do you you know there are bilingual books, when on the left page is the English original and on the right page is Russian translation. The latter is always longer.

<skipped>

I am a morning person when I go to my office. I can secretly type
some messages to FIDO behind my colleges backs, but it is hardly
possible to do Skype talks, without having round eyes around.

I thought it might be something like that. One of the things I
enjoy about Fidonet is that we get a bunch of mail in the morning,
from people on the same continent, and a bunch more in the evening
from people on others. Just as there are people who leap out of bed
at 5:00 AM & go jogging for an hour before getting ready for work,
there are people who check their Fidonet mail every day as soon as
they're awake enough to take it in. Some apparently type up a storm immediately. But that's not my style, and I gather it's not yours
either.

An off-line discussion is a good thing, I agree. ;)

On weekend, of course, I like to sleep more than usual.

Ah. You're a morning person on weekdays because that's what you
have to do to earn a living. Dallas & I have been there too.
When I switched to the elementary level, others commented on how
much healthier I looked. My starting time there, BTW, was somewhat
later.

What time is too late for you? ;-)

maybe at 9am Moscow Time on Sunday it can be the window, while you
have 10pm.

Hmm. By my calculations you are eleven hours ahead of us... at
least until Daylight Saving Time kicks in. Unfortunately, however,

Google says Vancouver time is behind Moscow time by 11 hours in winter.

Dallas & I aren't available nowadays on weekends when others are.
For us a Tuesday or a Thursday eening would be better. Perhaps you
have some holidays which differ from ours? Monday or Wednesday
evening might also work if your timing is flexible....

The 8-th of March, for instance. It could be the first lumpy pancake. The only problem is, however, how we can tell each other Skype aliases without disclosing them to some hooligans. ;-) I can't invent anything better than creating a temporal e-mail box where you can send your Skype alias: galexkotemp@gmail.com.

Bye, Ardith!
Alexander Koryagin
english_tutor 2021

---
* Origin: nntp://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/6.0)

Alexander Koryagin:

Do you you know there are bilingual books, when on the
left page is the English original and on the right page
is Russian translation. The latter is always longer.

Well-observed! I have typeset such parallel texts myself.
But check also those where the Russian is the original. Is
the Russian part there longer too? I have taken a wild shot
at the Moon and counterposed the Russian and English ver-
sions of the opening paragraph of Tolstoy's resurrection:--

èᬠ¡¿ ßΓáα὿ß∞ ½εñ¿, ß«- All the efforts of several
íαáóΦ¿ß∞ ó «ñ¡« ¡Ñí«½∞Φ«Ñ ¼Ñ- hundred thousand people,
ßΓ« ¡Ñ߬«½∞¬« ß«Γ Γδß∩τ, crowded in a small space, to
¿ºπα«ñ«óáΓ∞ Γπ ºÑ¼½ε, ¡á ¬«- disfigure the land on which
Γ«α«⌐ «¡¿ ªá½¿ß∞, ¬á¬ ¡¿ ºá- they lived; all the stone
í¿ó὿ ¬á¼¡∩¼¿ ºÑ¼½ε, τΓ«íδ they covered it with to keep
¡¿τÑú« ¡Ñ α«ß½« ¡á ¡Ñ⌐, ¬á¬ it barren; how so diligently
¡¿ ßτ¿Θ὿ óß∩¬πε »α«í¿óáεΘπ- every sprouting blade of
εß∩ Γαáó¬π, ¬á¬ ¡¿ ñ묨½¿ ¬á- grass was removed; all the
¼Ñ¡¡δ¼ πú½Ñ¼ ¿ ¡ÑΣΓ∞ε, ¬á¬ ¡¿ smoke of coal and naphtha;
«íαѺδó὿ ñÑαÑó∞∩ ¿ ¡¿ óδú«- all the cutting down of trees
¡∩½¿ óßÑσ ª¿ó«Γ¡δσ ¿ and driving off of cattle
»Γ¿µ, -- óÑß¡á íδ½á óÑß¡«ε could not shut out the
ñáªÑ ¿ ó ú«α«ñÑ. 櫽¡µÑ úαÑ- spring, even from the city.
½«, Γαáóá, «ª¿óá∩, α«ß½á ¿ The sun was shedding its
ºÑ½Ñ¡Ñ½á óѺñÑ, úñÑ Γ«½∞¬« ¡Ñ light; the grass, revivified,
߫߬αÑí½¿ ÑÑ, ¡Ñ Γ«½∞¬« ¡á was blooming forth, where it
úẫ¡áσ íπ½∞óáα«ó, ¡« ¿ ¼Ñªñπ was left uncut, not only on
»½¿ΓἿ ¬á¼¡Ñ⌐, ¿ íÑαѺδ, Γ«- the greenswards of the boule-
»«½¿, τÑαѼπσá αáß»π߬὿ vard, but between the flag-
ßó«¿ ¬½Ñ⌐¬¿Ñ ¿ »áσπτ¿Ñ ½¿- stones, and the birches,
ßΓ∞∩, ½¿»δ ¡áñπó὿ ½«»áóΦ¿Ñ- poplars and wild-berry trees
ß∩ »«τ¬¿; úὬ¿, ó«α«í∞¿ ¿ were unfolding their viscous
ú«½πí¿ »«-óÑßÑ¡¡Ñ¼π αáñ«ßΓ¡« leaves; the limes were un-
ú«Γ«ó¿½¿ πªÑ ú¡Ñºñá, ¿ ¼πσ¿ folding their buds; the daws,
ªπªªá½¿ π ßΓÑ¡, »α¿úαÑΓδÑ sparrows and pigeons were
ß«½¡µÑ¼. éÑßѽδ í뫨 ¿ αáßΓÑ- joyfully making their custom-
¡¿∩, ¿ »Γ¿µδ, ¿ ¡áßѬ«¼δÑ, ¿ ary nests, and the flies were
ñÑΓ¿. « ½εñ¿ -- í«½∞Φ¿Ñ, buzzing on the sun-warmed
óºα«ß½δÑ ½εñ¿ -- ¡Ñ »ÑαÑßΓá- walls. Plants, birds, insects
ó὿ «í¼á¡δóáΓ∞ ¿ ¼πτáΓ∞ ßÑí∩ and children were equally
¿ ñαπú ñαπúá. ïεñ¿ ßτ¿Γ὿, joyful. Only men -- grown-up
τΓ« ßó∩ΘÑ¡¡« ¿ ó᪡« ¡Ñ øΓ« men -- continued cheating and
óÑßÑ¡¡ÑÑ πΓα«, ¡Ñ øΓá ¬αáß«Γá tormenting themselves and
¼¿αá ü«ª¿∩, ñá¡¡á∩ ñ½∩ í½áúá each other. People saw noth-
óßÑσ ßπΘÑßΓó, -- ¬αáß«Γá, ing holy in this spring morn-
αáß»«½áúáεΘá∩ ¬ ¼¿απ, ß«ú½á- ing, in this beauty of God's
ß¿ε ¿ ½εíó¿, á ßó∩ΘÑ¡¡« ¿ world -- a gift to all living
ó᪡« Γ«, τΓ«? «¡¿ ßἿ óδñπ- creatures -- inclining to
¼á½¿, τΓ«íδ ó½áßΓó«óáΓ∞ ñαπú peace, good-will and love,
¡áñ ñαπú«¼. but worshiped their own in-
ventions for imposing their
will on each other.

As you see, the English translation is longer than the Rus-
sian original, even though it is incomlete and omits some of
the Russian words. For example it has "grown-up men"instead
of "mature, grown up men".

My opinion, therefore, is that a good translation is gener-
ally longer than the original because it tries to follow the
author's style on a language not adapted to it.

---
* Origin: nntp://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/6.0)

Ardith Hinton:

The English language dropped many inflections during the
Middle Ages, and this trend continues with e.g. the use
of the word "actor" to describe both males & females.

I fear this change is political, but agree that we are los-
ing `whom`, `whence`, `whither`, `thou`, `thee`, `ye`, &c.

It doesn't necessarily result in shorter words. But the
pace of modern life seems to be increasing as we
speak...

I have heard this referred to as an excluse for or the cause
of many negative changes in our lives, but it is nobody but
ourselves who are to blame. We have let smartphones and so-
cial networks enslave our society and largely supplant hu-
mane commication, the iconic example being a couple at a
restaurant, each half absorbed in his or her own smartphone
with a bluish face.

When I switched to the elementary level, others comment-
ed on how much healthier I looked.

Why do we not hear from your pupils in these group?

---
* Origin: nntp://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/6.0)

Hi, Brian! Recently you wrote in a message to Alexander Koryagin:

First, colleagues not colleges.

Thank you. Many hands make light work.... :-)

At my former employer, I would be up at 1 or 2am to take
conference calls with my German colleagues. They'd wonder
why I would yawn on the calls. When I reminded them of
the time, they'd profusely apologize.

For many years Dallas & I received telephone calls from Florida at 5:00 AM asking e.g. "What would you like me to do with this load of rutabagas?" I'll leave it to the reader to imagine what some people might have told them to do, but we answered the question with another question... do you realize you're calling somebody's home in Vancouver BC & it's 5:00 AM here? The truck drivers who made the calls apologized profusely when they understood what was going on. It seemed there was an error in the directory a lot of them were using.... :-)

Sadly, when I'd make calls convenient to me, they were
all home and getting ready for bed. Oh, well, life goes
on.

Uh-huh. The situation I alluded to did clear up after awhile... I guess because the word got around &/or because the error was emended in a later version of the directory. Now that our aged relatives in the UK have passed on we also keep the ringer volume turned down when we're sleeping, however. Those who are still alive use e-mail when they have something important to say. :-))




--- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
* Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)

Hi, Anton Shepelev! -> Alexander Koryagin
I read your message from 01.03.2021 17:34

ß¿ε ¿ ½εíó¿, á ßó∩ΘÑ¡¡« ¿ world -- a gift to all living
ó᪡« Γ«, τΓ«? «¡¿ ßἿ óδñπ- creatures -- inclining to
¼á½¿, τΓ«íδ ó½áßΓó«óáΓ∞ ñαπú peace, good-will and love,
¡áñ ñαπú«¼. but worshiped their own in-
ventions for imposing their
will on each other.

As you see, the English translation is longer than the Russian
original, even though it is incomlete and omits some of the Russian
words. For example it has "grown-up men"instead of "mature, grown
up men".

My opinion, therefore, is that a good translation is generally
longer than the original because it tries to follow the author's
style on a language not adapted to it.

Maybe -- a translation is generally longer. In this case, in addition to the fact that Russian words are generally longer than English, it can be an additional factor that makes it difficult for a Russian to understand quick English speech. A translation from English makes it longer! ;-)

Bye, Anton!
Alexander Koryagin
english_tutor 2021

---
* Origin: nntp://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/6.0)

Alexander Koryagin:

Maybe -- a translation is generally longer. In this
case, in addition to the fact that Russian words are
generally longer than English, it can be an additional
factor that makes it difficult for a Russian to under-
stand quick English speech. A translation from English
makes it longer! ;-)

You will explain anything. If Russian words were generally
shorter than English ones, you could again say that the
sheer length of English words hampered Russians in perceiv-
ing them at high rate.

---
* Origin: nntp://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/6.0)

Hi, Anton Shepelev! -> Alexander Koryagin
I read your message from 27.02.2021 00:19

<skipped>

For instance, I read now "The Gun Seller" by Hugh Laurie. A usual
not very bright subject, but the language is super, great,
marvellous and original.

Not now, but I will.
[after looking it up in Wikipedia] Whooops: I see it is very
recent, and not a short story but a novel. Usually I do not read
books by living authors to avoid any hype and let the cultural
aftermath settle down. It is easier for me to start from a short
story, as it does not require a serious commitment of time.
Speaking of Hugh Laurie, I am more likely to try P.G. Wodehouse's
stories about the immortal Jeeves & Wooster.

It is not a very recent book, but is still up to date. The matter is that the modern literature is about this world, not about the world that is dead for long times, and almost all events there are old fashioned and covered with dust.

Somebody in heaven and under earth like serials very much. All
life on Earth is a big serial. Besides, there are some serials in
Russia which are very pretty, stylish and certainly are worth to
be seen once. For instance, the serial about a cool, stylish
Russian fashion firm and quite ugly, but very clever girl who went
to work there. Speed it up by 1.5 times and you will have a good
hearing training, without boredom.

I am sorry, but any modern Russian TV series means boredom to me:
no acting, no sound, no cinematography, no varation. They give me
neither spiritual nor aesthetical gratification.

Perhaps I would look funny ;-), but try to find in the Internet and watch a couple series of "Ne rodis krasivoi". It is a fresh and stylish approach to this genre. And indeed it had a deserved, great success in Russia about 10 year ago.

I feel deeply
ashamed for the state of the film industry in my country. One need
only watch the excellent "The Lark" (1965) and its horrible modern
remake commercially named "T-34" (2019) to realise the depth of degeneration. Only low-budget or no-budget indie movies sometimes
manage to come out any good, but they very rare.

IMHO you should avoid serials with propaganda.

Alexander Koryagin
english_tutor 2021

---
* Origin: nntp://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/6.0)

Hi, Alexander! Recently you wrote in a message to Ardith Hinton:

Do you you know there are bilingual books, when
on the left page is the English original and on
the right page is Russian translation.
The latter is always longer.

One of my friends at university, who happened to be Roman Catholic, told me she had a prayer book with English on one side & Latin on the other. I didn't think to ask her which was longer. But I've noticed, when I see cooking instructions written in English & French, that it generally requires more space to express the same idea in the latter. I realize this may be at least in part because Francophones don't use possessives the way Anglophones do. They'll say "la plume de ma tante", e.g., where we'd say "my aunt's pen". I don't know how this relates to Russian. But I see that if one language has a word which isn't easily translatable into another, a little more verbiage may be needed.... :-)

Some apparently type up a storm immediately. But
that's not my style, and I gather it's not yours
either.

An off-line discussion is a good thing, I agree. ;)

Uh-huh. As we speak, I'm working on five or six replies to various participants in this echo. They'll remain in my writing area until I decide to post them manually & AFAIK folks using offline readers can do likewise.... :-)

What time is too late for you? ;-)

Probably about 11:00 PM by our time, because we may talk up a storm with you & we may take awhile to defuse afterwards... [wry grin].

By my calculations you are eleven hours ahead of us...
at least until Daylight Saving Time kicks in.

Google says Vancouver time is behind Moscow time by 11
hours in winter.

Same idea, different perspective.... :-)

The 8-th of March, for instance.

Your time or our time? The evening of this day would probably work for us. But by my calculations, it would be Tuesday morning in Russia.... :-Q

I can't invent anything better than creating a
temporal e-mail box where you can send your Skype
alias: galexkotemp@gmail.com.

Sounds like a plan... I'll look into that when we find a date which works for you as well as for Dallas & me. Thanks. :-)




--- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
* Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)

Hi, Ardith Hinton! -> Alexander Koryagin
I read your message from 04.03.2021 13:34

Do you you know there are bilingual books, when on the left page
is the English original and on the right page is Russian
translation. The latter is always longer.

One of my friends at university, who happened to be Roman Catholic,
told me she had a prayer book with English on one side & Latin on
the other. I didn't think to ask her which was longer. But I've
noticed, when I see cooking instructions written in English &
French, that it generally requires more space to express the same
idea in the latter. I realize this may be at least in part because Francophones don't use possessives the way Anglophones do. They'll
say "la plume de ma tante", e.g., where we'd say "my aunt's pen". I
don't know how this relates to Russian. But I see that if one
language has a word which isn't easily translatable into another, a
little more verbiage may be needed....

If you let me witter more, IMHO Russian and French have many similar features. I think it is because the fact that in the Russian history French was a very important element - all the noble and educated people in Russia spoke French from childhood and even despise the Russian language as vulgar. During this period French influenced very much on the Russian language. And one common similarity IMHO is that French and Russian phrases are longer than English. ;) Everybody knows that in France they don't like learn English. They pretend that they love French very much, but in reality, IMHO, they meet with the same problem why many Russians can't understand English -- English is too quick for them. ;-)

<skipped>

What time is too late for you?

Probably about 11:00 PM by our time, because we may talk up a storm
with you & we may take awhile to defuse afterwards... [wry grin].

I believe the main problem can be opposite - to find what to say, at least for me. But well, like in old time in school at the English lesson, I can tell you that I live in Russia, I have a dog and etc. ;-)

By my calculations you are eleven hours ahead of us... at least
until Daylight Saving Time kicks in.

Google says Vancouver time is behind Moscow time by 11 hours in
winter.

Same idea, different perspective....

The 8-th of March, for instance.

Your time or our time? The evening of this day would probably work
for us. But by my calculations, it would be Tuesday morning in
Russia....: - Q

So, 9am Moscow time in any work day is OK for me, unless I have some urgent business in my office. I exaggerated that I can't talk for 10 minutes in my office. Yes, I can do it easily, and there is no problem concerning "round eyes around". ;-)

Bye, Ardith!
Alexander Koryagin
english_tutor 2021

---
* Origin: nntp://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/6.0)

Hi, Anton! Recently you wrote in a message to Alexander Koryagin:

it was done not to add speed and dynamics, but to change
the timber of the voice:

Usage note: The English language has adopted many words from French ... e.g. "litre", "metre", and "theatre"... which USAians prefer to spell with an "-er" ending. That's not the case here. USAians make the same distinction between "timbre" and "timber" Canadians do in spelling, but not necessarily in pronunciation. A few years from now, of course, things may be different. :-Q

The first pertains to tone colour or sound quality... the acoustical principle which enables us to recognize the voices of our nearest & dearest or to distinguish between an oboe & a clarinet when we can't see who &/or what is involved, while the second pertains to trees or to the wood derived therefrom.

Eugeniy Leonov spoke slowly, so that the sped-up version
would have normal tempo but increased pitch.

I imagine the same applies to "Alvin and the Chipmunks" (1958). :-)




--- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
* Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)

Ardith Hinton:

Usage note: The English language has adopted
many words from French .. e.g. "litre", "metre",
and "theatre"... which USAians prefer to spell
with an "-er" ending. That's not the case here.
USAians make the same distinction between "tim-
bre" and "timber" Canadians do in spelling, but
not necessarily in pronunciation. A few years
from now, of course, things may be different.
:-Q

The first pertains to tone colour or
sound quality... the acoustical principle which
enables us to recognize the voices of our near-
est & dearest or to distinguish between an oboe
& a clarinet when we can't see who &/or what is
involved, while the second pertains to trees or
to the wood derived therefrom.

Thanks for the explanation, Ardith. It was a mental
sleep, but you reminded me of this interesting phe-
nomena, when the same word imported by different
routes acquires different meanings. The original
meaning of `timbre' is of course wood, but the
pecuiliar warm colouration of the sound of wooden
musical instruments lent the French spelling a new
meaning.

Casting about for more examples, I looked up `fric-
tion' and `frisson' and learned the name of the phe-
nomena -- doublet.

--- Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.30; i686-pc-mingw32)
* Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)

Hi, Anton! Recently you wrote in a message to Ardith Hinton:

[re timbre & timber]

The first pertains to tone colour or sound quality...
the acoustical principle which enables us to recognize
the voices of our nearest & dearest or to distinguish
between an oboe & a clarinet when we can't see who &/or
what is involved, while the second pertains to trees or
to the wood derived therefrom.

Thanks for the explanation, Ardith. It was a mental
sleep,

Not to worry. IMHO your usage of English is very good & I am quite in awe of anyone here who has succeeded in mastering a foreign alphabet. :-))

but you reminded me of this interesting phenomena,

Singular -- phenomenon. Plural -- phenomena, from Latin via Greek.

when the same word imported by different routes
acquires different meanings. The original
meaning of `timbre' is of course wood, but the
pecuiliar warm colouration of the sound of wooden
musical instruments lent the French spelling a new
meaning.

Yes, I understand. I like the tone quality of wooden instruments & I'm interested in doublets too. Another example which stuck in my mind when I first ran across it is "cattle" and "chattel". Once again, while the meanings as listed in the dictionary are not the same I can see a relationship.... :-)

Casting about for more examples, I looked up
friction' and `frisson' and learned the name
of the phenomena -- doublet.

I hadn't thought of this example, but my GAGE CANADIAN agrees. :-)




--- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
* Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)