Re: audio books.. game change
By: Ogg to Zouf on Sun May 02 2021 04:59 pm

But, don't you lose any credits that you have amassed in the
meantime if you cancel later?

With Libro.fm, you can PAUSE your membership, (no recurring
monthly credit fee), and resume when you are ready to buy. Or..
you can continue to pay the monthly, and buy the books you want
with those credits all at once at any time.

I have all my Audible books downloaded on my Kindle and also
my iPad for good measure.

That is very smart. But anything can happen during a Kindle/app
update. They could "update" your collection anyway they see fit
- even deleting controversial titles that you already have.

I don't know if they can be ripped and placed onto CDs,
etc... I have never tried the Audible app on a PC.

Probably not.. since the files are DRM-ed.

But Libro.fm versions are DRM-free and yours to keep and play as
you see fit, with any player you want. I play my files that
I've copied to USB or SSD and plug them into my TV so that I can
crawl into bed and listen from there.

You can suspend your subscription to Audible also, I have done so in the past. The issue there is that you can only do it in 3 month intervals and once you've frozen your account for 3 months, you cannot do it again for another 6 months.

And you're right, you lose any UNUSED credits if you cancel your subscription which is why you're warned prior to unsubbing that they would have to be spent.

I think it's unecessary and anti-consumer -- I don't understand why they refuse to let the customer keep their accumulated credits for later use. The one good thing is that you can pre-order audio books so if you do leave and you're waiting on a book, it's still possible ot get what you want. I guess Amazon are very insistent that you remain a paying member each and every month.

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Hello Zouf!

** On Tuesday 04.05.21 - 22:43, Zouf wrote to Ogg:

You can suspend your subscription to Audible also, I have
done so in the past. The issue there is that you can only do
it in 3 month intervals and once you've frozen your account
for 3 months, you cannot do it again for another 6 months.

Whoa.. I did not know about the 3-month/6-month pattern with
Audible. I'm trying to educate people who *might* be interested
in an audio alternative (when driving, or when wanting to sit in
a dimmed/darkened room to relax) and enjoy a good telling of a
story. Ultimately, I would think it would be better to "own"
your purchases and be able to play them anywhere and any way you
want - and even maybe share them with other people; Libro.fm
allows that.

I think it's unecessary and anti-consumer -- I don't
understand why they refuse to let the customer keep their
accumulated credits for later use.

Time is money. Audible wants you to use up your credit asap to
increase the likelyhood that you will buy your next product
sooner. But unused credits are eliminated after 1 yr: "Unused
credits carry over to the next month for up to 1 year. "

ref: https://lovelyaudiobooks.info/kindle-unlimited-vs-audible/

The one good thing is that you can pre-order audio books so
if you do leave and you're waiting on a book, it's still
possible ot get what you want. I guess Amazon are very
insistent that you remain a paying member each and every
month.

A-n wants to make you feel dependant on them.

So.. why not subscribe to the Libro.fm model, have the ability
to play on any device, or use any player, keep your files, pause
the membership, retain your credits, and support your local
community?
--

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Re: Audible v Libro.fm
By: Ogg to Zouf on Wed May 05 2021 09:21 am

Whoa.. I did not know about the 3-month/6-month pattern with
Audible. I'm trying to educate people who *might* be interested
in an audio alternative (when driving, or when wanting to sit in
a dimmed/darkened room to relax) and enjoy a good telling of a
story. Ultimately, I would think it would be better to "own"
your purchases and be able to play them anywhere and any way you
want - and even maybe share them with other people; Libro.fm
allows that.

I think it's unecessary and anti-consumer -- I don't
understand why they refuse to let the customer keep their
accumulated credits for later use.

Time is money. Audible wants you to use up your credit asap to
increase the likelyhood that you will buy your next product
sooner. But unused credits are eliminated after 1 yr: "Unused
credits carry over to the next month for up to 1 year. "

ref: https://lovelyaudiobooks.info/kindle-unlimited-vs-audible/

The one good thing is that you can pre-order audio books so
if you do leave and you're waiting on a book, it's still
possible ot get what you want. I guess Amazon are very
insistent that you remain a paying member each and every
month.

A-n wants to make you feel dependant on them.

So.. why not subscribe to the Libro.fm model, have the ability
to play on any device, or use any player, keep your files, pause
the membership, retain your credits, and support your local
community?
--

I know what Audible use a DRM format which is meant to only run on their Apps but it's not too big a problem for most people because the App is available on all major platforms -- iOS, MacOS, PC and Android. I can just Bluetooth audiobooks to my car stereo whenever I am driving which is what I would normally do with music anyway.

I would argue that you DO get to own your books because even if you unsubscribe you still get to keep them. I don't believe there would be any justificaion for Amazon to retrospectively patch the App to disallow people from plaing their previously owned audiobooks even if Audible one day goes under.

Audible also do a $7.95 Plus plan which offers an "all-you-can-listen" service giving you access to thousands of pre-selected audiobooks. Obviously it's not a la carte which is what we're used to but prolific listers would be very interested in such a service, especially those who listen to audiobooks when at work, etc... for $14.95 per month, the price of a Libro.fm subscription, you can have access to both Audible Plus AND gain a credit which can be used to purchase and keep any book. There is no doubt that Audible a more cost effective service than Libro.fm -- there are pros and cons with both so even though Audib dominates the distribution of audiobooks by orders of magnitude, users should consider options and pick whichever suits their requirements.

---
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Hello Zouf!

** On Thursday 06.05.21 - 11:41, Zouf wrote to Ogg:

I know what Audible use a DRM format which is meant to only
run on their Apps but it's not too big a problem for most
people because the App is available on all major platforms
-- iOS, MacOS, PC and Android.

True.. as long as the app works and never "breaks" when you need
to upgrade it, fine. But the libro.fm files are not tied to any
app. You can play them any way you like.

I can just Bluetooth audiobooks to my car stereo whenever I
am driving which is what I would normally do with music
anyway.

That is handy for sure. The Audible/Kindle built-in features for
that are well planned out. Libro.fm files can be caste the same
way as long as your favourite device supports it.

I would argue that you DO get to own your books because even
if you unsubscribe you still get to keep them. I don't
believe there would be any justificaion for Amazon to
retrospectively patch the App to disallow people from plaing
their previously owned audiobooks even if Audible one day
goes under.

But it has happened before. Perhaps if people had some of the
controversial Dr.Seuss ebooks, they would have been pulled from
the devices. Those books are nolonger available to buy. The
problem probably doesn't apply to the audio versions because it
was the images that triggered the discontinuance. Other ebooks
have been replaced with censored/redacted/woke versions.

Audible also do a $7.95 Plus plan which offers an "all-you-
can-listen" service giving you access to thousands of pre-
selected audiobooks.

I just remembered that one too. That's a smart one for people
who don't particularly care to keep something once it has been
experienced, but the selection from that catalog is quite large
just the same.

..for $14.95 per month, the price of a Libro.fm
subscription, you can have access to both Audible Plus AND
gain a credit which can be used to purchase and keep any
book. There is no doubt that Audible a more cost effective
service than Libro.fm

One final option that libro.fm has that the others do not. Being
drm-free, people can share an audiobook much like you can a real
book. One family or group doesn't need multiple accounts just to
be able to listen to the same book. That gives "cost effective"
a different meaning. ;)

-- there are pros and cons with both so even though Audib
dominates the distribution of audiobooks by orders of
magnitude, users should consider options and pick whichever
suits their requirements.

It's nice to have options out in the market. One service for
all isn't a good ending.

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Re: Audible v Libro.fm
By: Zouf to Ogg on Thu May 06 2021 11:41 am

I would argue that you DO get to own your books because even if you unsubscribe you
still get to keep them. I don't believe there would be any justificaion for Amazon
retrospectively patch the App to disallow people from plaing their previously owned
audiobooks even if Audible one day goes under.

YOu only own the books as long as the provider has no licensing issues with them, your
platform is not EOLed, of the provider decides to EOL their application from your
platform.

These days people does not care for these things, but I have books in my home that
date from the 19th century and I am sure many digital goods covered by DRM would not
survive in a family even half they did.

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

---
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Re: Audible v Libro.fm
By: Ogg to Zouf on Thu May 06 2021 10:24 pm

Hello Zouf!

** On Thursday 06.05.21 - 11:41, Zouf wrote to Ogg:

I know what Audible use a DRM format which is meant to only
run on their Apps but it's not too big a problem for most
people because the App is available on all major platforms
-- iOS, MacOS, PC and Android.

True.. as long as the app works and never "breaks" when you need
to upgrade it, fine. But the libro.fm files are not tied to any
app. You can play them any way you like.

I can just Bluetooth audiobooks to my car stereo whenever I
am driving which is what I would normally do with music
anyway.

That is handy for sure. The Audible/Kindle built-in features for
that are well planned out. Libro.fm files can be caste the same
way as long as your favourite device supports it.

I would argue that you DO get to own your books because even
if you unsubscribe you still get to keep them. I don't
believe there would be any justificaion for Amazon to
retrospectively patch the App to disallow people from plaing
their previously owned audiobooks even if Audible one day
goes under.

But it has happened before. Perhaps if people had some of the
controversial Dr.Seuss ebooks, they would have been pulled from
the devices. Those books are nolonger available to buy. The
problem probably doesn't apply to the audio versions because it
was the images that triggered the discontinuance. Other ebooks
have been replaced with censored/redacted/woke versions.

Audible also do a $7.95 Plus plan which offers an "all-you-
can-listen" service giving you access to thousands of pre-
selected audiobooks.

I just remembered that one too. That's a smart one for people
who don't particularly care to keep something once it has been
experienced, but the selection from that catalog is quite large
just the same.

..for $14.95 per month, the price of a Libro.fm
subscription, you can have access to both Audible Plus AND
gain a credit which can be used to purchase and keep any
book. There is no doubt that Audible a more cost effective
service than Libro.fm

One final option that libro.fm has that the others do not. Being
drm-free, people can share an audiobook much like you can a real
book. One family or group doesn't need multiple accounts just to
be able to listen to the same book. That gives "cost effective"
a different meaning. ;)

-- there are pros and cons with both so even though Audib
dominates the distribution of audiobooks by orders of
magnitude, users should consider options and pick whichever
suits their requirements.

It's nice to have options out in the market. One service for
all isn't a good ending.

It's defintiely good to have options because monopolies are terrible for the customer in any market, for instance, look at how lazy Intel were for years re-hashing the same old crappy chips just because they were head and shoulders above AMD. We absolutely NEED competition otherwsie we'll get a raw deal everytime.

That's a good point you made about being able to share your non-DRM audiobooks with friends and family. If there were others I knew who enjoyed audiobooks as much as I do, Libro.fm would probably become viable for me from a cost effective standpoint. Both are really great platforms but smaller companies like Libro.fm need to be supported long term because they don't have a trillion dollar company behind them. I can even forsee something like an Amazon takeover occurring if they hit a rough patch and their shareprice drop
W

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Re: Audible v Libro.fm
By: Ogg to Zouf on Wed May 05 2021 09:21:00

So.. why not subscribe to the Libro.fm model, have the ability
to play on any device, or use any player, keep your files, pause
the membership, retain your credits, and support your local
community?

Should I subscribe to my grocery store to buy food? Should I subscribe to the gas station to fuel up or to a book store to buy a book?
What ever happened to just buying stuff, then owning it. And that's the end of it.
I don't want to have to sit down and do math to calculate whether or not it's in my best interest to enter into a long-term contract with a merchant just to have the privilage of buying from them. You have a product? just sell it and be done with it.

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Re: Audible v Libro.fm
By: Ogg to Zouf on Wed May 05 2021 09:21:00

So.. why not subscribe to the Libro.fm model,
. .. and support your local community?

Should I subscribe to my grocery store to buy food? Should I subscribe to the gas station to fuel up or to a book store to buy a book?
What ever happened to just buying stuff, then owning it. And that's the end of it.

You can. You can support ANY shop that is represented at libro.fm:

https://libro.fm/indies

I don't want to have to sit down and do math to calculate whether or not it's in my best interest to enter into a long-term contract with a merchant just to have the privilage of buying from them. You have a product? just sell it and be done with it.

No long term contract required. You can buy a-la-carte just like at any other shop that sells audio books for download.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada

Hello Zouf!

** On Friday 07.05.21 - 19:06, Zouf wrote to Ogg:

That's a good point you made about being able to share your non-DRM audiobooks with friends and family.

Exactly. ;)

but smaller companies like Libro.fm need to be supported
long term because they don't have a trillion dollar company
behind them. I can even forsee something like an Amazon
takeover occurring if they hit a rough patch and their
shareprice drop W

Are they public?

Libro.fm is very enthusiastic. I hope they don't give up. They
have a respectable business ethic. They really want to support
indies with the audio product. They KNOW that indies, such as my
biz, are a valuable marketing resource; I can recommend a
particular title - suggest an audio option - and the customer is
likely to check it out to get the drm-free version *and* support
an indie.

They even reached out and offer this to indies for free:

https://bookstorelink.com/

When people explore the catalogue at libro.fm they also have the
option of inquiring about the availability of the printed
version with a link that works like this:

hxxps://bookstorelink.com/<ean-number>?store=<merchantID>


For example, if you found a book with 9780771096884 at libro.fm,
you would see a button that links to the printed version as:

https://bookstorelink.com/9780771096884?store=ashlies

..and they produce a nice page with my store logo and contact
information.

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Hextor wrote to Ogg <=-

Should I subscribe to my grocery store to buy food? Should I subscribe
to the gas station to fuel up or to a book store to buy a book?
What ever happened to just buying stuff, then owning it. And that's the end of it.
I don't want to have to sit down and do math to calculate whether or
not it's in my best interest to enter into a long-term contract with a merchant just to have the privilage of buying from them. You have a product? just sell it and be done with it.

AMEN!!!! Tired of everyone trying to get me to become part of THEIR
recurring revenue stream.

... Redundancy is something I can do again and again.
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Re: Audible v Libro.fm
By: Arelor to Zouf on Fri May 07 2021 11:19 am

Re: Audible v Libro.fm
By: Zouf to Ogg on Thu May 06 2021 11:41 am

I would argue that you DO get to own your books because even if you unsub still get to keep them. I don't believe there would be any justificaion f retrospectively patch the App to disallow people from plaing their previo audiobooks even if Audible one day goes under.

YOu only own the books as long as the provider has no licensing issues with platform is not EOLed, of the provider decides to EOL their application from platform.

These days people does not care for these things, but I have books in my hom date from the 19th century and I am sure many digital goods covered by DRM w survive in a family even half they did.

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

I don't see how a platform holder could nuke an app on an operating system such as iOS. As long as it can operate independently from being online there is no reason you won't be able to use it even if it's EOL'd on the AppStore. It just means that the app is no longer available for download along with all the books that you own.

It's kind of like Steam which can always be accessed offline by the user. If a game is not dependent on your online connectivity then you can play it. One day Steam will die off however as long as your games are installed to your HDD/SDD you should still be able to play them.

At lot of people are not going to be bothered preserving the digital property that they own so a lot of games and books, etc... are going to become near impossible to get ahold of in say 50-100 years time.

I have a delightful collecion of old books also... my oldest one is from 1814. :-)

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Hello Hextor!

** On Saturday 08.05.21 - 10:14, Hextor wrote to Ogg:

Should I subscribe to my grocery store to buy food? Should
I subscribe to the gas station to fuel up or..

People are already doing that with their affinity/points cards.


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Re: Audible v Libro.fm
By: Hextor to Ogg on Sat May 08 2021 10:14 am

Re: Audible v Libro.fm
By: Ogg to Zouf on Wed May 05 2021 09:21:00

So.. why not subscribe to the Libro.fm model, have the ability
to play on any device, or use any player, keep your files, pause
the membership, retain your credits, and support your local
community?

Should I subscribe to my grocery store to buy food? Should I subscribe to t gas station to fuel up or to a book store to buy a book?
What ever happened to just buying stuff, then owning it. And that's the end it.
I don't want to have to sit down and do math to calculate whether or not it' in my best interest to enter into a long-term contract with a merchant just have the privilage of buying from them. You have a product? just sell it an be done with it.

I am afraid that in this day and age, mechants are trying really hard to loyalize customers because there is a wild excess of supply.

If there are thirty soap stores in a small rural town there is just too much soap for sale. Therefore the smart soap merchants are going to give you reasons to buy soap from them instead of others.

Long-term contracts in this regard are nothing new and were a thing before the Internet already. I remember some stores that you could become a "premium customer" for by paying a small fee, and then you could purchase there with heavy discounts. This way they get customers to purchase the soap in their shop instead of another. It is as simple as that.

You need the economic incentive nowadays because people does not value good service anymore. In the old days you could stand out by offering added value with your service (home delivery of soap bars, in-house dermathologist for customer service) but that does not work anymore. People wants either great product or cheap product. So you have to tie them in with a product so great everybody wants it but only you distribute (hard) or promise them a huge discount if they make a token effort to show they are going to become regulars (easy).

Don't take me wrong, I hate the subscription model in which you also have to pay for purchases, but given the state of things the question is why isn't everybody trying.

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

---
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Re: Audible v Libro.fm
By: Zouf to Arelor on Sat May 08 2021 11:19 pm

I don't see how a platform holder could nuke an app on an operating system s as iOS. As long as it can operate independently from being online there is n reason you won't be able to use it even if it's EOL'd on the AppStore. It ju means that the app is no longer available for download along with all the bo that you own.

That content can be nuked from the device is a fact with many platforms. Amazon has nuked books and Steam has nuked videogame soundtracks. If you purchased a game with a certain soundtrack at a given date you may find that a Steam pushed update voids it one day. Sure, there are ways to fight against this, but at this point you are fighting against the platform, which is a counterproductive thing to do.

As for he survivability of the content after the platform itself is nuked from the store, I suppose that depends on the platform. Afaik these thigns are designed so products you purchased are only available in devices on which you have installed the client software and on which the client software is linked to your account. If the client software is EOLed from the store, maybe, _maybe_, depending on the aplication, you can keep using the stuff you purchased on your devices.

Until the devices get toasted, because there is no mechanism to migrate the content over to new devices when linked to EOLed applications.

The life expectancy of a mobile device is 3 years. 4 for a laptop. If you are a microhiphead you can extract much more time out of those, but most people don't.

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

---
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Hello Zouf!

** On Saturday 08.05.21 - 23:19, Zouf wrote to Arelor:

These days people does not care for these things, but I have
books in my hom date from the 19th century and I am sure
many digital goods covered by DRM w survive in a family even
half they did.

I don't see how a platform holder could nuke an app on an
operating system such as iOS. As long as it can operate
independently from being online there is no reason you won't
be able to use it even if it's EOL'd on the AppStore. It
just means that the app is no longer available for download
along with all the books that you own.

Kobo does it in a sneaky way.

If someone uses the pc/desktop app to shop and DL books, that app will
always check for app updates first. If it detects an update, the user is *forced* to acknowledge and grab the update - otherwise you can't use the
app properly.

I just triggered my Kobo DT app. Friggin' thing consumed 13MB of my
precious mobile data too. :/

After the update check, the app performs a sync. That's where the supplier can optionally adjust your collection. They can pull a controversial book
or replace it with a woke copy.

One *can* try to operate the Kobo DT app offline, but the autocheck announcement will always cover part of the screen.

At lot of people are not going to be bothered preserving the
digital property that they own so a lot of games and books,
etc... are going to become near impossible to get ahold of
in say 50-100 years time.

It's probably the same mindset for tangible things. We like to keep and
hold on to stuff (for the memories they trigger) yet rarely reuse them.

I have a delightful collecion of old books also... my oldest
one is from 1814. :-)

I have some from the 1800's:
===========================

The People's Farm and Stock Cyclopedia, Brown, Waldo F., 1884

Little Minister, Barrie, James Matthew, 1898

Elizabeth and Her German Garden, Arnim, Elizabeth Von, 1900

Black Rock, Connor, Ralph, 1900

Connor, Ralph, Bryant, William Cullen, 1885

Writings of Harriet Beecher Stowe Vol. XII: My Wife And I, 1899

[SOLD] Wild Animals I Have Known, Seton, Ernest Thompson, 1898

Grant's Bankers' and Brokers' Railroad Atlas, GRANT, Alexander A., 1889

Works of Washington Irving (Complete 15 Volume Set), <1900

History of The Holy Bible:3-volumes, Stackhouse, Rev. Thomas, 1817

Life and Achievements of Admiral Dewey [Limited Ed.], Halstead, Murat, 1899

THE DEIPNOSOPHISTS, OR BANQUET OF THE LEARNED OF ATHENAEUS. 3 VOLUMES.. Literally Translated By C. D. Yonge, 1854

Peloubet's Select Notes on the International Lessons- 1896, F.N. Peloubet,
D.D and M.A. Peloubet, 1896

The Correct Thing: In Good Society, Florence Howe Hall, 1888

The Barrys, Bullock, Shan F. , 1899

[SOLD] Leighton's Works, Vol. 1 & 2, 1819

[SOLD] Art Work on Eastern Washington and Western Idaho, 1900

One Thousand And One Gems of English and American Poetry From Chaucer to Tennyson Chronologically Arranged, Edwin O. Chapman (editor), 1884


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Re: Audible v Libro.fm
By: Ogg to Zouf on Sat May 08 2021 08:28 pm

but smaller companies like Libro.fm need to be supported
long term because they don't have a trillion dollar company
behind them. I can even forsee something like an Amazon
takeover occurring if they hit a rough patch and their
shareprice drop W

Are they public?

Libro.fm is very enthusiastic. I hope they don't give up. They
have a respectable business ethic. They really want to support
indies with the audio product. They KNOW that indies, such as my
biz, are a valuable marketing resource; I can recommend a
particular title - suggest an audio option - and the customer is
likely to check it out to get the drm-free version *and* support
an indie.

I was just being presumptios, I have no idea if Libro.fm is a listed company. I don't even know what kind of marketshare they hav There are other companies such as Scribd but they are very small compared to Audible... I would guess that Libro.fm is likely in a similar league to them.

Supporting a company like Libro.fm a lot like supporting your local farmer. You'll pay more for less but the ideological cause is worth more than the extra cash.

---
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Hello Arelor!

** On Sunday 09.05.21 - 07:27, Arelor wrote to Zouf:

The life expectancy of a mobile device is 3 years. 4 for a
laptop. If you are a microhiphead you can extract much more
time out of those, but most people don't.

My Blackberry Q10 = circa 2013. But someone just gave it to me
around 2014, I think. It's still a fine piece of gear. Works
quite good enough as a phone.

My T60 Thinkpad = circa 2007. I purchased it used around 2009.
Although I have a more recent Thinkpad model, I much still
prefer and enjoy using the T60.

Does this make me a "microhiphead"? I'm not sure what the word
means. But I'm not exactly a fixer-upper, nor expert on
computer repairs.

Wrt to the topic of EOL'd devices/software, I was totally
pissed at Apple when they decided to cease support for iTunes
for XP. I can understand that maybe a new version might be
prudent wrt to purchases/payments using the app, but they also
TURNED OFF the ability to play audio samples!

I was building a Wishlist of tunes that interested me later
purchase. However, along the way came Spotify with a "3-months
for 99cents" offer ..so, I decided to subscribe to them.
Spotify plays just fine on XP.


--- OpenXP 5.0.49
* Origin: Ogg's Dovenet Point (723:320/1.9)
■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

Ogg wrote to Zouf <=-

Audible. I'm trying to educate people who *might* be interested
in an audio alternative (when driving, or when wanting to sit in
a dimmed/darkened room to relax) and enjoy a good telling of a
story. Ultimately, I would think it would be better to "own"
your purchases and be able to play them anywhere and any way you
want - and even maybe share them with other people; Libro.fm
allows that.

I wonder if there's any clause of fair use that includes buying a paper copy of a book and torrenting the audio book?

Aside: I heard a great interview of Max Brooks, the World War Z author. He's the son of Mel Brooks and Anne Bancroft, and he was explaining that he is terribly dyslexic, and that his mother essentially dropped out of Hollywood
to help him though school.

She'd go to bat tirelessly for him in front of school board, get involved
with his teachers, and in a bit of genius, go to libraries for the blind and find him audio books of any textbooks for which they had titles on tape. Others, mostly literature, she recorded on tape for him.

He said "In my garage, I have boxes of audiobooks on cassette recorded by my Academy award-winning actor mother".

Sounds like they should be donated to a charity and made into a audio-book series for a good cause...






... The plains of Leonis are burning.
--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
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Hextor wrote to Ogg <=-

Should I subscribe to my grocery store to buy food? Should I subscribe
to the gas station to fuel up or to a book store to buy a book?
What ever happened to just buying stuff, then owning it. And that's the end of it.

Because shareholders love recurring revenue models.




... The beaches of Canceron are burning.
--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org

Ogg wrote to Hextor <=-

Should I subscribe to my grocery store to buy food? Should
I subscribe to the gas station to fuel up or..

People are already doing that with their affinity/points cards.

Yeah, it used to be that if you had items discounted for members and weren't
a member, they'd swipe a "generic" card for you.

Now, when you're buying a pack of chewing gum at CVS the cashier asks you
for your "loyalty card". Who's loyal to whom?


... The farms of Aerolon are burning.
--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
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Arelor wrote to Zouf <=-

That content can be nuked from the device is a fact with many
platforms. Amazon has nuked books and Steam has nuked videogame soundtracks.

Amazon deleted user-licensed copies of "1984" and "Animal Farm" from their customer's Kindles. Relevant to point out that you don't purchase digital items from Amazon, you purchase a license to use, subject to terms and conditions.

You can't make this kind of news up.


... Meaningless in the absence of time. What never was is never again.
--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org

Hello poindexter FORTRAN!

** On Sunday 09.05.21 - 08:41, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Arelor:

Amazon deleted user-licensed copies of "1984" and "Animal
Farm" from their customer's Kindles. Relevant to point out
that you don't purchase digital items from Amazon, you
purchase a license to use, subject to terms and
conditions.

Further to that:

"In July, Amazon remotely wiped Orwell's "1984" and "Animal
Farm" from all Kindle e-readers, because the publisher of the
e-books didn't have the rights to sell them in the United
States."

But I like this line:

"The move was seen as Orwellian in itself" ... "and raised
questions of whether the consumer really owns digital
content that is downloaded and paid for."

Oh... but wait!

"Shortly after the incident, Amazon apologized and said it
wouldn't happen again."

Here are the appeasing words:

"In the settlement, Amazon promises never to repeat its
actions, under a few conditions."

Ah... the conditions:

"The retailer will still wipe an e-book if a court or
regulatory body orders it, if doing so is necessary to protect
consumers from malicious code, if the consumer agrees for any
reason to have the e-book removed, or if the consumer fails to
pay (for instance, if the credit card issuer doesn't remit
payment)."

Therefore it is in the best interests for the seller's app to
have the ability to call the mother ship and purge your device
as desired.


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Re: Audible v Libro.fm
By: Arelor to Zouf on Sun May 09 2021 07:27 am

That content can be nuked from the device is a fact with many platforms. Ama has nuked books and Steam has nuked videogame soundtracks. If you purchased game with a certain soundtrack at a given date you may find that a Steam pus update voids it one day. Sure, there are ways to fight against this, but at this point you are fighting against the platform, which is a counterproducti thing to do.

As for he survivability of the content after the platform itself is nuked fr the store, I suppose that depends on the platform. Afaik these thigns are designed so products you purchased are only available in devices on which yo have installed the client software and on which the client software is linke to your account. If the client software is EOLed from the store, maybe, _maybe_, depending on the aplication, you can keep using the stuff you purchased on your devices.

Until the devices get toasted, because there is no mechanism to migrate the content over to new devices when linked to EOLed applications.

The life expectancy of a mobile device is 3 years. 4 for a laptop. If you ar microhiphead you can extract much more time out of those, but most people don't.

I have an extensive collection of games on Steam -- over 100, and I don't think I've ever lost any of them over the last 17 years I've used their services. I don't think it's impossible that they'd be able to remove an already downloaded game from your library -- but it's never happened to me.

I was inferring that you wouldn't be able to migrate a client from one machine to another along with your digital collection. I agree that because of this, a lot of digital content will disappear due to hardware failures. I think you're a little bit off though regarding the lifespan of computers, laptops and movile devices -- I have a laptop that's 16 yars old and was used extensively for 10 of those years and it's still in perfect working condition... I haven't replaced the HDD or anything. I think high quality tablets, due to their solid state, should last well over 10-15 years of use. Computers and mobile devices can pretty much be stored indefinitely also which is why we still see working machines from the 70s and 80s. HDDs are the weak point as they only tend to last 25-30 years before they require serious maintenence or are completely unfixable. This is why a lot of retro machines from the late 80s and early 90s are now booting from SSDs rather than their original HDDs.

Your point still stands though that within anywhere between 10-30 years, all the data will be lost completely with no means to redownload it for the purposes of preservation. Consumers being consumers don't really think abou that though which is why I've seen a lot of people getting rid of their DVD collections because they now have Neftlix and Amazon Prime and no longer have a DVD player. We have completely internalised the idea of streaming content without actually OWNING any of it.

---
■ Synchronet ■ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!

Re: Kobo / books pre-1900
By: Ogg to Zouf on Sun May 09 2021 08:03 am

Kobo does it in a sneaky way.

If someone uses the pc/desktop app to shop and DL books, that app will always check for app updates first. If it detects an update, the user is *forced* to acknowledge and grab the update - otherwise you can't use the app properly.

I just triggered my Kobo DT app. Friggin' thing consumed 13MB of my precious mobile data too. :/

After the update check, the app performs a sync. That's where the supplier can optionally adjust your collection. They can pull a controversial book
or replace it with a woke copy.

One *can* try to operate the Kobo DT app offline, but the autocheck announcement will always cover part of the screen.

At lot of people are not going to be bothered preserving the
digital property that they own so a lot of games and books,
etc... are going to become near impossible to get ahold of
in say 50-100 years time.

It's probably the same mindset for tangible things. We like to keep and
hold on to stuff (for the memories they trigger) yet rarely reuse them.

There is always the ever present danger that non-DRM free platforms can alter or remove products via client updates. It's a cost/benefit in the end in relation to the end user. For instance, a conscientious purchaser of audiobooks may be more interested in Libro.fm as they'll be able to preserve their collection into posterity whereas your average consumer, which would constitute the mass population, would go with Audible because of the 'value' they represent. I reckon you could easily get close to 2 books from Audible for the price of 1 book from Libro.fm. Now you might never truly OWN that audiobook, but most people won't take that aspect into consideration. People just want to consume and move onto the next product. This is why DVD/Blu-Ray sales are completely tanking... no one wants to pay $15 for a DVD when they could have 2 months of all-you-can eat access to movies via a Netflix subscription. Ownership is now overrated. The problem is that thrift stores and swap meets are going to be full of bugger all in the near future as everything is considered disposable and things that were previously tangible are now intangible.

---
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Re: Audible v Libro.fm
By: Zouf to Arelor on Mon May 10 2021 11:26 am

lot of digital content will disappear due to hardware failures. I think you' a little bit off though regarding the lifespan of computers, laptops and mov devices -- I have a laptop that's 16 yars old and was used extensively for 1 of those years and it's still in perfect working condition... I haven't replaced the HDD or anything. I think high quality tablets, due to their sol state, should last well over 10-15 years of use. Computers and mobile device can pretty much be stored indefinitely also which is why we still see workin machines from the 70s and 80s. HDDs are the weak point as they only tend to last 25-30 years before they require serious maintenence or are completely unfixable. This is why a lot of retro machines from the late 80s and early 9 are now booting from SSDs rather than their original HDDs.

I have working computers that are much older than 16 years. I know this sort of equipment can be made to last and be kept in operational condition for long.

The issue with computer survivability is that not everybody is a BBS person who can keep using the same computer for all eternity.

My numbers seem harsh until you realize the people here are not the average consumers. The average consumer loses a smartphone to obsolescence or marketing hype earlier than the phone falls appart. This is specially true because many phones will develop data storage issues - run out of necessary room to store the operating system and crucial programs - after just a few years of use.

It is the same with laptops, specially low cost ones. A laptop you are actually using will have its bettery fried in 2-4 years in the hands of somebody who does not follow good practices. The _really_, _really_ low cost ones will develop data storage issues just as the smartphones do, at which point average users just discard them and get a new one. The non-low-cost ones will last longer, but eventually will lack RAM or GHzs enough to power the new shiny game of the year and will be put in the dumpster soon after.

Keep in mind that, for an average consumer, a device that cannot perform a task deemed usual at a given time (such as running Windows 800 in 2050) is not fit for service and, consequently, as good as broken. Off to the dumpster it goes.

My numbers come from a talk with a guy doing hardware provisioning at a data center. He actually expected mobile devices to last 2 (!) years before falling to obsolescence and laptops to last 4 before falling to a combination of obsolescence and fixable hardware failures. If they last more, that is great, but when you buy a phone for 500 USD, he said you should be thinking you were paying 250USD +ISP fees per year in phone use.

For the record, this guy rotates server hardware for HPC applications once every 4 or 5 years.


--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

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Re: Kobo / books pre-1900
By: Zouf to Ogg on Mon May 10 2021 11:55 am

consume and move onto the next product. This is why DVD/Blu-Ray sales are completely tanking... no one wants to pay $15 for a DVD when they could have months of all-you-can eat access to movies via a Netflix subscription.

This is what is going to obliterate the movie industry.

The movie is no longer worth 15 bucks from the producer's point of view. It is worth a tiny fraction of the subscription fee the consumer is paying. There is heavy devaulation at work here.

The producer is going to be forced to produce more films in order to keep up
, each worth less than the film after, and therefore we are going to see a big shift in the quantity vs quality spectrum in film making. Since each film is not worth peanuts, the producer is not going to spend peanuts in it either, with some counted exceptions.

I wonder if the creative bankrupcy we are in, with heavy reuse and abuse of franchises, remakes and sequels, is a symthom of this, or just a parallell phenomenom.

When I was younger, there were also films in the making that I was eager to see released. When films where released, they stood in theatres for quite a long time. Not, theatres rotate movies so fast that if you blink you will miss them,but it does not matter to me, because it was probably a movie I didn't want to watch :-(

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

---
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Re: Audible v Libro.fm
By: Arelor to Hextor on Sun May 09 2021 07:11 am

Should I subscribe to my grocery store to buy food? Should I
subscribe to t gas station to fuel up or to a book store to buy a
book? What ever happened to just buying stuff, then owning it. And
that's the end it.

I hate this subscription crap going on in the online stores. "Prime on Amazon" is $120 per month or $99 when they have a "discount". You get free shipping but there's no way I buy enough products that need $120 dollars for delivery.Ebay has better deals and most sellers offer free shipping. The only thing is there's little accountability at Ebay. Amazon has much better customer service then Ebay. Ebay is just a hub for thousands of sellers from all over the world. Amazon will refund your money in a Jiffy. Ebay supports the sellers. Not the buyers. Subscription? I don't think so. I don't see what I can gain paying subscription fees.

... Advertising is legalized lying.

---
■ Synchronet ■ Havens BBS havens.synchro.net

Amazon deleted user-licensed copies of "1984" and "Animal Farm" from their customer's Kindles. Relevant to point out that you don't purchase digital items from Amazon, you purchase a license to use, subject to terms and conditions.

You can't make this kind of news up.

I wonder what made them choose those two titles to delete?


* SLMR 2.1a * The Word of the Day is "Legs." Spread the word.

---
■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

"The retailer will still wipe an e-book if a court or
regulatory body orders it, [..]

Therefore it is in the best interests for the seller's app to
have the ability to call the mother ship and purge your device
as desired.

So, if your government starts acting like China's, and asks them to remove
it (like they ask apple and google and others to do now), they will remove
it.

I still think it is ironic that the titles removed were "1984" and "Animal Farm." :O


* SLMR 2.1a * "¡Beavis! ¿Donde esta su hall pass?"

---
■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

Hello Zouf!

** On Monday 10.05.21 - 11:55, Zouf wrote to Ogg:

It's probably the same mindset for tangible things. We like
to keep and hold on to stuff (for the memories they
trigger) yet rarely reuse them.

..I reckon you could easily get close to 2 books from
Audible for the price of 1 book from Libro.fm. Now you
might never truly OWN that audiobook, but most people won't
take that aspect into consideration.

Ah.. but with the Libro.fm option, you can have a copy ready to
play at home on the hi-fi and one in the car cd-player ready
when you hop into the car to drive, and on a portable device -
and extra copies for "family". ;)

People just want to consume and move onto the next product.
This is why DVD/Blu-Ray sales are completely tanking... no
one wants to pay $15 for a DVD when they could have 2
months of all-you-can eat access to movies via a Netflix
subscription.

Ahh.. but the internet connection is not free for a service
suitable for streaming movies. For the audio downloads, 300MB
to 400MB per book max, any free wi-fi hotspot will do.

For Netflix, you have to add the fibe/cable/Starlink price per
month. ;) Over the course of a year, that's still pretty
expensive for a couple of movies per week. I can probably buy
a mix of the same new and used DVDs for much less in the same
time period.

Ownership is now overrated. The problem is that thrift
stores and swap meets are going to be full of bugger all in
the near future as everything is considered disposable and
things that were previously tangible are now intangible.

But that indeed seems to be the trend. Many people are in the
mode to purge stuff faster as they approach retirement years.
Young people are fine with a-la-carte viewing and never keeping
copies taking it for granted that they could always get it
again from then 'net at any time.


--- OpenXP 5.0.49
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■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

Hello Dumas Walker!

** On Monday 10.05.21 - 15:08, Dumas Walker wrote to OGG:

I still think it is ironic that the titles removed were
"1984" and "Animal Farm." :O

It probably couldn't have happend to a better pair of books in
order to emphasise the Orwellian act of removal more potent.

--- OpenXP 5.0.49
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Zouf wrote to Ogg <=-

There is always the ever present danger that non-DRM free platforms can alter or remove products via client updates. It's a cost/benefit in the end in relation to the end user.

Correct. But in many instances the companies offering DRM contaminated eBooks are committing fraud.

They offer an eBook for "sale" and charge a paper book price for such a sale. But they aren't selling an eBook. They are selling you a limited use license to read the eBook for certain time frame (which may be limited by the license or by the life of the company).

When a library wants to let me borrow an eBook that expires. That makes sense.
They aren't offering a sale. They are offering a borrow and everyone has the expectation that the eBook will stop being readable by a certain time.

I've told authors/publishers that my rule is: If your content is contaminated with DRM, it's worth $1 - and that's only so I can watch/read it now instead of borrowing it from the local library for free.

Now you might never truly OWN that audiobook, but most people
won't take that aspect into consideration. People just want to consume
and move onto the next product.

That's not entirely true. I agree that most people just want to pay a few dollars to watch a movie once (and for most Hollywood stuff, that's all it's worth). But what happens when the movie you want to watch is no longer on NetFlix because of a spat between companies? Or worse, that the Cancel Culture wants to cancel your favorite movie? (Ever see Disney's Song of the South? You won't here in the U.S.)

Moving to get-it-on-demand puts companies in control of whether or not they allow you see that content. And companies have a bad track record of censorship, especially today.


... If Version 1.0 works someone goofed...
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
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Arelor wrote to Zouf <=-

consume and move onto the next product. This is why DVD/Blu-Ray sales are completely tanking... no one wants to pay $15 for a DVD when they could have months of all-you-can eat access to movies via a Netflix subscription.

This is what is going to obliterate the movie industry.

Poor content with Woke characters has already obliterated the movie industry.


... I'm as confused as a baby at a topless bar!
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
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Dr. What wrote to Zouf <=-

That's not entirely true. I agree that most people just want to pay a
few dollars to watch a movie once (and for most Hollywood stuff, that's all it's worth). But what happens when the movie you want to watch is
no longer on NetFlix because of a spat between companies? Or worse,
that the Cancel Culture wants to cancel your favorite movie? (Ever see Disney's Song of the South? You won't here in the U.S.)

Moving to get-it-on-demand puts companies in control of whether or not they allow you see that content. And companies have a bad track record
of censorship, especially today.

Yeah, thanks to the "cancel culture" of the day, I have been collecting
all my favorite media from the past - in Non-DRM contaminated form, of
course - before it gets "canceled."

We obviously are not teaching history in our schools/homes today and
that as you move back in time, you find not just different people, but different cultures among people in different regions of the country.
Sure, what is not acceptable today was yesterday so everything needs to
be reviewed and understood *in the context* of the time period it took
place. Don't look down upon or judge harshly those from the past, but
learn from them and be thankful for how far we have come. I think that
is what should be taught today instead of, "Oh my! How offensive, erase
the past! Erase the past!"


... BorgBurgers - We do it our way; your way is irrelevant.
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
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Re: Audible v Libro.fm
By: HusTler to Arelor on Mon May 10 2021 04:28 pm

Re: Audible v Libro.fm
By: Arelor to Hextor on Sun May 09 2021 07:11 am

Should I subscribe to my grocery store to buy food? Should I
subscribe to t gas station to fuel up or to a book store to buy a
book? What ever happened to just buying stuff, then owning it. And
that's the end it.

I hate this subscription crap going on in the online stores. "Prime on Amazon" is $120 per month or
when they have a "discount". You get free shipping but there's no way I buy enough products that need
$120 dollars for delivery.Ebay has better deals and most sellers offer free shipping. The only thing i
there's little accountability at Ebay. Amazon has much better customer service then Ebay. Ebay is just
hub for thousands of sellers from all over the world. Amazon will refund your money in a Jiffy. Ebay
supports the sellers. Not the buyers. Subscription? I don't think so. I don't see what I can gain payi
subscription fees.

... Advertising is legalized lying.

Wow, Prime is expensive over there! I think it is 36 eur per year in Spain. It is actually cost effective
and you only have to offer your soul to Amazon in the bargain :-P

That said, is is easy to get free deliveries or discounts in Spain from most e-commerces anyway, which
makes Amazon's offer less desirable. In fact I find myself buying less and less from Amazon because 1)
Amaon is evil and 2) it is not as cost effective as people thinks. IN fact there are products that, due
to the way Amazon fees work, are more expensive on Amazon than from any other retailer.


--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

---
■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

Arelor wrote to HusTler <=-

I hate this subscription crap going on in the online stores. "Prime on

Amaz

on" is $120 per month or

Wow, Prime is expensive over there! I think it is 36 eur per year in Spain. It is actually cost effective and you only have to offer your
soul to Amazon in the bargain :-P

Amazon Prime is actually $120/year (not month).


... Opportunities taken are what makes your future.
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■ Synchronet ■ Diamond Mine Online BBS - bbs.dmine.net:24 - Fredericksburg, VA USA

Re: Audible v Libro.fm
By: HusTler to Arelor on Mon May 10 2021 04:28 pm

I hate this subscription crap going on in the online stores. "Prime on Amazon" is $120 per month or $99 when they have a "discount". You get free shipping but there's no way I buy enough products that need $120 dollars for delivery.Ebay has better deals and most sellers offer free shipping. The only thing is there's little accountability at Ebay. Amazon has much better customer service then Ebay. Ebay is just a hub for thousands of sellers from all over the world. Amazon will refund your money in a Jiffy. Ebay supports the sellers. Not the buyers. Subscription? I don't think so. I don't see

amazon prime is 119/ a YEAR, not month
if you order more than 2 things a month, it pays for itself.

i order 3 things a week. it's a big timesaver for me. i find great deals on household items, too.

you can also split it with 'family', so you can do that with friends and split the cost, that has changed but you can be grandfathered in.
now it's just one other person.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Audible v Libro.fm
By: Arelor to HusTler on Tue May 11 2021 09:20 am

Wow, Prime is expensive over there! I think it is 36 eur per year in Spain. It is actually cost effective and you only have to offer your soul to Amazon in the bargain :-P

That said, is is easy to get free deliveries or discounts in Spain from most e-commerces anyway, which makes Amazon's offer less desirable. In

Shipping costs the most. Then when you don't get what you paid for the seller blames the shipping company. I tell them "I didn't by it from them. I bought it from you." Amazon is now using it's own delivery people so I'm seriously considering leaving Ebay. I'd rather pay a few bucks more for "Guaranteed Delivery". When I don't get what I paid for E-bay tells me to look in the bushes or ask my neighbors. I find answers like this offensive and just bad business.

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■ Synchronet ■ Havens BBS havens.synchro.net

Re: Re: Audible v Libro.fm
By: Dumas Walker to POINDEXTER FORTRAN on Mon May 10 2021 03:00 pm

Amazon deleted user-licensed copies of "1984" and "Animal Farm" from their customer's Kindles. Relevant to point out that you don't purchase digital items from Amazon, you purchase a license to use, subject to terms and conditions.

You can't make this kind of news up.

I wonder what made them choose those two titles to delete?

* SLMR 2.1a * The Word of the Day is "Legs." Spread the word.

On Friday, it was "1984" and another Orwell book, "Animal Farm," that were dropped down the memory hole ? by Amazon.com.

In a move that angered customers and generated waves of online pique, Amazon remotely deleted some digital editions of the books from the Kindle devices of readers who had bought them.

An Amazon spokesman, Drew Herdener, said in an e-mail message that the books were added to the Kindle store by a company that did not have rights to them, using a self-service function. "When we were notified of this by the rights holder, we removed the illegal copies from our systems and from customers' devices, and refunded customers," he said.

Amazon effectively acknowledged that the deletions were a bad idea. "We are changing our systems so that in the future we will not remove books from customers' devices in these circumstances," Mr. Herdener said.
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Re: Audible v Libro.fm
By: Dumas Walker to OGG on Mon May 10 2021 03:08 pm

I still think it is ironic that the titles removed were "1984" and "Animal Farm." :O

someone was illegally selling them
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Re: Audible v Libro.fm
By: HusTler to Arelor on Mon May 10 2021 04:28 pm

I hate this subscription crap going on in the online stores. "Prime on Amazon" is $120 per month or $99 when they have a "discount".

Pretty sure that's an annual fee, not monthly.
--
digital man

Rush quote #79:
His mind is not for rent to any god or government always hopeful yet discontent Norco, CA WX: 62.7°F, 79.0% humidity, 5 mph NE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
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Elf wrote to Dr. What <=-

Yeah, thanks to the "cancel culture" of the day, I have been collecting all my favorite media from the past - in Non-DRM contaminated form, of course - before it gets "canceled."

Same here.

We obviously are not teaching history in our schools/homes today

No. Most schools are indoctrinating, not educating. And the problem isn't new. Even my education (decades ago) missed many things that I've discovered.

that as you move back in time, you find not just different people, but different cultures among people in different regions of the country.
Sure, what is not acceptable today was yesterday so everything needs to
be reviewed and understood *in the context* of the time period it took place. Don't look down upon or judge harshly those from the past, but learn from them and be thankful for how far we have come. I think that
is what should be taught today instead of, "Oh my! How offensive, erase the past! Erase the past!"

I can recall some (we would now recognize them as Lefties) parents wanted the schools to remove Huckleberry Finn and Tom Sawyer from the libraries because they used "slurs".

When I was in high school, we read Orwell's 1984. I highly doubt that any student would be allowed to read that today. Even the indoctrinated would realize that it's being used as a manual for the Lefties today.


... You're PC if you think a "chick" is a baby bird.
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ Diamond Mine Online BBS - bbs.dmine.net:24 - Fredericksburg, VA USA

Arelor wrote to Zouf <=-

I wonder if the creative bankrupcy we are in, with heavy reuse and
abuse of franchises, remakes and sequels, is a symthom of this, or just
a parallell phenomenom.

I always heard it was marketing AI. Get this star and this director in this franchise/reboot, pay X dollars, and you'll be guaranteed to make X times 3
in revenues. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Compare with a critically acclaimed but untested director, an unknown star, and a new story - the risk is much higher.




... Observe the procedures of a general alert.
--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org

On 11 May 2021, Digital Man said the following...

I hate this subscription crap going on in the online stores. "Prime o Amazon" is $120 per month or $99 when they have a "discount".

Pretty sure that's an annual fee, not monthly.

i know it's a lock-in trick, but they practically give it away to college students too.. but even without that it's a decent deal IMO.

their movie selection is a bit different though. a bit like if netflix has Jackie Chan, Amazon gets Jean-Claude Van Damme.

i dig it tho

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/04/20 (Windows/32)
* Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi

Re: Re: Audible v Libro.fm
By: Elf to Arelor on Tue May 11 2021 10:14 am

I hate this subscription crap going on in the online stores. "Prime on

Wow, Prime is expensive over there! I think it is 36 eur per year in

Amazon Prime is actually $120/year (not month).

Oooops. Typo?? ;-) Prime is $120 per year too much. lol

---
■ Synchronet ■ Havens BBS havens.synchro.net

Re: Re: Kobo / books pre-1900
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Arelor on Tue May 11 2021 09:36 am

Arelor wrote to Zouf <=-

I wonder if the creative bankrupcy we are in, with heavy reuse and abuse of franchises, remakes and sequels, is a symthom of this, or just a parallell phenomenom.

I always heard it was marketing AI. Get this star and this director in this franchise/reboot, pay X
dollars, and you'll be guaranteed to make X times 3
in revenues. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Compare with a critically acclaimed but untested director, an unknown star, and a new story - the ris
is much higher.

... Observe the procedures of a general alert.

I agree, but back in the day, they gave you a battle tested director, a battle tested actor in a lead
role, and a NEW story, and people was eager to watch that!

I could have 90 Anthony Hopkins films if they were original films, but I can't have 90 remakes of a
Hopkins film even if they switch to a different famous actor each time.

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

---
■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

Re: Audible v Libro.fm
By: MRO to HusTler on Tue May 11 2021 02:07 pm

amazon prime is 119/ a YEAR, not month
if you order more than 2 things a month, it pays for itself.

Nah. I can buy for much less on Ebay. I just need to be more selective who I buy from. With ebay I have to open a case and wait for a decision. Amazon is no questions asked. The seller provides a tracking number and that means I got it? Bull dinky! If I say I didn't get it, I didn't get it. Now I buy from sellers that provide pictures of the delivery. Now that's smart. In my area there is so much theft going on (mostly from UPS) I need to see where my stuff is delivered.

---
■ Synchronet ■ Havens BBS havens.synchro.net

Re: Re: Audible v Libro.fm
By: HusTler to Elf on Wed May 12 2021 11:34 am

Re: Re: Audible v Libro.fm
By: Elf to Arelor on Tue May 11 2021 10:14 am

I hate this subscription crap going on in the online stores. "Prime on

Wow, Prime is expensive over there! I think it is 36 eur per year in

Amazon Prime is actually $120/year (not month).

Oooops. Typo?? ;-) Prime is $120 per year too much. lol

that's like 10 bucks a month. if you order more than one thing a month you are saving money.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Audible v Libro.fm
By: HusTler to MRO on Wed May 12 2021 11:48 am

Nah. I can buy for much less on Ebay. I just need to be more selective who I buy from. With ebay I have to open a case and wait for a decision. Amazon is no questions asked. The seller provides a tracking number and that means I got it? Bull dinky! If I say I didn't get it, I didn't get it. Now I buy from sellers that provide pictures of the delivery. Now that's smart. In my area there is so much theft going on (mostly from UPS) I need to see where my stuff is delivered.

your tracking number shows where it went and when it was delivered.
maybe you should buy a camera for where you have dropoffs or rent a cheap PO box and get deliveries there.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Hello Dr. What!

** On Wednesday 12.05.21 - 08:21, Dr. What wrote to Elf:

When I was in high school, we read Orwell's 1984. I
highly doubt that any student would be allowed to read
that today. Even the indoctrinated would realize that
it's being used as a manual for the Lefties today.

I sold a healthy amount last year at my shop, and primarily to
young people.


--- OpenXP 5.0.49
* Origin: Ogg's Dovenet Point (723:320/1.9)
■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

Ogg wrote to Dr. What <=-

When I was in high school, we read Orwell's 1984. I
highly doubt that any student would be allowed to read
that today. Even the indoctrinated would realize that
it's being used as a manual for the Lefties today.

I sold a healthy amount last year at my shop, and primarily to
young people.

That's a good sign.


... "640K ought to be enough for anybody." (Bill Gates, 1981)
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ Diamond Mine Online BBS - bbs.dmine.net:24 - Fredericksburg, VA USA

MRO wrote to HusTler <=-

Nah. I can buy for much less on Ebay. I just need to be more selective who I buy from. With ebay I have to open a case and wait for a decision. Amazon is no questions asked. The seller provides a tracking number and that means I got it? Bull dinky! If I say I didn't get it, I didn't get it. Now I buy from sellers that provide pictures of the delivery. Now that's smart. In my area there is so much theft going on (mostly from UPS) I need to see where my stuff is delivered.

your tracking number shows where it went and when it was delivered.
maybe you should buy a camera for where you have dropoffs or rent a
cheap PO box and get deliveries there. ---

Does UPS deliver to PO boxes now?

... Drive defensively. Buy a tank.
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com

Re: Re: Audible v Libro.fm
By: Elf to MRO on Thu May 13 2021 09:35 am

maybe you should buy a camera for where you have dropoffs or rent a cheap PO box and get deliveries there. ---

Does UPS deliver to PO boxes now?

i used a box at a service.

there's atleast one in each city.
i didnt mean us postal box.
i dont even know why someone would use those.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Arelor wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

I could have 90 Anthony Hopkins films if they were original films, but
I can't have 90 remakes of a Hopkins film even if they switch to a different famous actor each time.

Oh, god.

Vin Diesel in "Silence of the Lambs".
Channing Tatum in "The Bounty".


... From nothing to more than nothing
--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org

fusion wrote to Digital Man <=-

their movie selection is a bit different though. a bit like if netflix
has Jackie Chan, Amazon gets Jean-Claude Van Damme.

I want an all-JCVD-all-the-time channel. Just rotate through Bloodsport, Timecop and Hard Target 24/7.


... From nothing to more than nothing
--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org

Re: Re: Kobo / books pre-1900
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Arelor on Thu May 13 2021 06:11 am

Arelor wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

I could have 90 Anthony Hopkins films if they were original films, but I can't have 90 remakes of a Hopkins film even if they switch to a different famous actor each time.

Oh, god.

Vin Diesel in "Silence of the Lambs".
Channing Tatum in "The Bounty".

... From nothing to more than nothing

Are you trying to make me have nightmares?

On the other hand, I wonder what the result of *that* would look like...
--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

---
■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

MRO wrote to Elf <=-

there's atleast one in each city.
i didnt mean us postal box.
i dont even know why someone would use those.

Yeah, I don't know why we still use the US Postal Service at all. It's terrible. We even contacted Amazon recently and asked if there was
anyway they could flag our account to NEVER deliver through the US
Postal Service because the packages are ALWAYS delayed or sometimes
delivered to the wrong address. They said, "No." :-(

... Blessed our young they will inherit our national debt.
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ Diamond Mine Online BBS - bbs.dmine.net:24 - Fredericksburg, VA USA

Re: Re: Audible v Libro.fm
By: Elf to MRO on Fri May 14 2021 10:05 am

Yeah, I don't know why we still use the US Postal Service at all. It's terrible. We even contacted Amazon recently and asked if there was
anyway they could flag our account to NEVER deliver through the US
Postal Service because the packages are ALWAYS delayed or sometimes delivered to the wrong address. They said, "No." :-(

i've tried that too. the workers can be poor. i actually had a horrible one that would write nasty notes on our envelopes about dumb shit. like i was living with my gf and she didnt know i didnt live there and she would put it in the dead letter file. and my ex would start shit on fb with anti abortion groups and they stalked her and were sending her shit in the mail. i said to return to sender and she wrote a note saying she would stop delivering all our mail.

our mail slot was drafty, it was -20f outside, so i screwed some fabric behind it to deflect the wind. princess didnt like that and stopped delivering our mail because it was too hard to push the mail in for her.

basically they wanted to fire this bitch for a long time and that's what they used to get rid of her. she had a real attitude.

right now i have a guy who misdelivers mail once a week. also i am supposed to get somethin [i have service where it takes a scan of my mail and emails it to me] and i get it days later.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

ELF wrote to HEXTOR <=-

AMEN!!!! Tired of everyone trying to get me to become part of THEIR recurring revenue stream.

So I guess you don't want to join my Patreon? :-)




... Auto correct has become my worst enema.
--- MultiMail/Mac v0.52
■ wcQWK 8.0 ≈ Omicron Theta * Memphis, TN * winserver.org

JIMMY ANDERSON wrote to ELF <=-

AMEN!!!! Tired of everyone trying to get me to become part of THEIR recurring revenue stream.

So I guess you don't want to join my Patreon? :-)

Well, honestly, now that you mention Patreon, that is different. While
I have not joined anyone's Patreon at this point, I must admit I have
never discounted the idea. I think because joining someone's Patreon
would be more personal to me, more like supporting one of my peers who
are doing something I really appreciate and want to see continue. It
feels different than a corporation - *not* that I am a corporation
hater. I do pay for some services monthly like Spotify, Disney+
(annually), Amazon Prime (annually), and Hulu. I just don't want to add
to that list - I don't want EVERYTHING to become a monthly payment that
I feel obligated to pay. :-)

... The answer is easier when the question is hypothetical.
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ Diamond Mine Online BBS - bbs.dmine.net:24 - Fredericksburg, VA USA

Re: Audible v Libro.fm
By: Arelor to Zouf on Mon May 10 2021 10:24 am

I have working computers that are much older than 16 years. I know this sort equipment can be made to last and be kept in operational condition for long.

The issue with computer survivability is that not everybody is a BBS person can keep using the same computer for all eternity.

My numbers seem harsh until you realize the people here are not the average consumers. The average consumer loses a smartphone to obsolescence or market hype earlier than the phone falls appart. This is specially true because man phones will develop data storage issues - run out of necessary room to store the operating system and crucial programs - after just a few years of use.

It is the same with laptops, specially low cost ones. A laptop you are actua using will have its bettery fried in 2-4 years in the hands of somebody who does not follow good practices. The _really_, _really_ low cost ones will develop data storage issues just as the smartphones do, at which point avera users just discard them and get a new one. The non-low-cost ones will last longer, but eventually will lack RAM or GHzs enough to power the new shiny g of the year and will be put in the dumpster soon after.

Keep in mind that, for an average consumer, a device that cannot perform a t deemed usual at a given time (such as running Windows 800 in 2050) is not fi for service and, consequently, as good as broken. Off to the dumpster it goe

My numbers come from a talk with a guy doing hardware provisioning at a data center. He actually expected mobile devices to last 2 (!) years before falli to obsolescence and laptops to last 4 before falling to a combination of obsolescence and fixable hardware failures. If they last more, that is great but when you buy a phone for 500 USD, he said you should be thinking you wer paying 250USD +ISP fees per year in phone use.

For the record, this guy rotates server hardware for HPC applications once every 4 or 5 years.

Yep, I think you've nailed consumer behaviour in relation to technology. People don't care enough to take care of their computers or mobile devices because they don't intend to preserve them, they only require their computers to last them between 1-4 years before getting a replacement. I've seen work colleagues with the latest iPhones costing up to $1000 failing to incorporate any kind of protection to them, no cases or screen protectors. They really don't give a damn.

I do like new technology and I usually do replace my phone every 2-3 years -- the iPhone 12 I have just now should last me until 2025 though... I see no point in replacing it tbh. In contract, I am typing this message on the TRS-80 Model 102 I mentioned before. The internal clock/RAM battry has been removed now so there is no risk of anything bursting inside and corroding the boards. That means I can have some piece of mind when I do stick this thing into storage.

But yes, I do agree with your post, although technology can theoretically last many decades when maintained and stored correctly, 99% of all machines end up in a landfill within 5 years of being sold.

Sad really...

---
■ Synchronet ■ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!

Re: Kobo / books pre-1900
By: Arelor to Zouf on Mon May 10 2021 10:36 am

This is what is going to obliterate the movie industry.

The movie is no longer worth 15 bucks from the producer's point of view. It worth a tiny fraction of the subscription fee the consumer is paying. There heavy devaulation at work here.

The producer is going to be forced to produce more films in order to keep up , each worth less than the film after, and therefore we are going to see a b shift in the quantity vs quality spectrum in film making. Since each film is not worth peanuts, the producer is not going to spend peanuts in it either, with some counted exceptions.

I wonder if the creative bankrupcy we are in, with heavy reuse and abuse of franchises, remakes and sequels, is a symthom of this, or just a parallell phenomenom.

When I was younger, there were also films in the making that I was eager to released. When films where released, they stood in theatres for quite a long time. Not, theatres rotate movies so fast that if you blink you will miss them,but it does not matter to me, because it was probably a movie I didn't want to watch :-(

There's definitely a concerted push by numerous companies to usher in the digital-only subscription based model. It's a model based on pure consumerism with very little actual property ownership. Everything from computer games, movies, tv series, music, books and audiobooks along with applications, etc... are digitised so you'll never really truly own them. I know there are a few people out there who are diligently burning their movies, audiobooks and music onto DVDs, but these people are in the extreme minority. Most of this stuff will just disappear in time.

---
■ Synchronet ■ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!

Re: Kobo / books pre-1900
By: Ogg to Zouf on Mon May 10 2021 05:08 pm

Hello Zouf!

** On Monday 10.05.21 - 11:55, Zouf wrote to Ogg:

It's probably the same mindset for tangible things. We like
to keep and hold on to stuff (for the memories they
trigger) yet rarely reuse them.

..I reckon you could easily get close to 2 books from
Audible for the price of 1 book from Libro.fm. Now you
might never truly OWN that audiobook, but most people won't
take that aspect into consideration.

Ah.. but with the Libro.fm option, you can have a copy ready to
play at home on the hi-fi and one in the car cd-player ready
when you hop into the car to drive, and on a portable device -
and extra copies for "family". ;)

People just want to consume and move onto the next product.
This is why DVD/Blu-Ray sales are completely tanking... no
one wants to pay $15 for a DVD when they could have 2
months of all-you-can eat access to movies via a Netflix
subscription.

Ahh.. but the internet connection is not free for a service
suitable for streaming movies. For the audio downloads, 300MB
to 400MB per book max, any free wi-fi hotspot will do.

For Netflix, you have to add the fibe/cable/Starlink price per
month. ;) Over the course of a year, that's still pretty
expensive for a couple of movies per week. I can probably buy
a mix of the same new and used DVDs for much less in the same
time period.

Ownership is now overrated. The problem is that thrift
stores and swap meets are going to be full of bugger all in
the near future as everything is considered disposable and
things that were previously tangible are now intangible.

But that indeed seems to be the trend. Many people are in the
mode to purge stuff faster as they approach retirement years.
Young people are fine with a-la-carte viewing and never keeping
copies taking it for granted that they could always get it
again from then 'net at any time.

1. The Audible App, as far as I am aware, tracks your progress on audiobooks ALL devices. I can listen to a novel on my Kindle in my home and then jump into my car, open up my phone Audible App and connect to Bluetooth, and seamlessly continue listening from where I left off. That's one of the benefits of signing onto a unique user account. It's your account and all of your devices are tied to it and updated on the fly.

2. I wouldn't really count the cost of the internet service in regards to the cost of steaming conent. I don't think I've known people prior to Netflix to NOT have an internet connection. It's a necessity nowaways. You have an internet connection and also the ability to steam video via a subscription service. You DO get a lot more for your money than previous times, but I have seen many people sign up to all the subscription services -- Netflix, Disney and Prime along with specialist services such as Crunchyroll, etc... the cost builds up.

3. The older generation are more used to owning things so I feel like it's unnatrual for them to be satisfied with pure digital "ownership". Young kids born circa 2010 are likely going to forget about storage mediums such as DVDs... I can't see discs being used for anything in the next 5-6 years. Everything will end up connected to the internet.

---
■ Synchronet ■ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!

Re: Re: Kobo / books pre-1900
By: Dr. What to Zouf on Tue May 11 2021 08:29 am

Correct. But in many instances the companies offering DRM contaminated eBoo are committing fraud.

They offer an eBook for "sale" and charge a paper book price for such a sale But they aren't selling an eBook. They are selling you a limited use licens to read the eBook for certain time frame (which may be limited by the licens or by the life of the company).

When a library wants to let me borrow an eBook that expires. That makes sen
They aren't offering a sale. They are offering a borrow and everyone has t expectation that the eBook will stop being readable by a certain time.

I've told authors/publishers that my rule is: If your content is contaminate with DRM, it's worth $1 - and that's only so I can watch/read it now instead borrowing it from the local library for free.

Now you might never truly OWN that audiobook, but most people
won't take that aspect into consideration. People just want to consume and move onto the next product.

That's not entirely true. I agree that most people just want to pay a few dollars to watch a movie once (and for most Hollywood stuff, that's all it's worth). But what happens when the movie you want to watch is no longer on NetFlix because of a spat between companies? Or worse, that the Cancel Cult wants to cancel your favorite movie? (Ever see Disney's Song of the South? won't here in the U.S.)

Moving to get-it-on-demand puts companies in control of whether or not they allow you see that content. And companies have a bad track record of censorship, especially today.

I wouldn't be too happy if I purchased a book off of Amazon Kindle for RRP and it disappeared after a period of time. You would be right that they would be selling the product to the consumer under false pretences. The entire idea of digital distribution is a bit of a legal minefield but I think there is a general acceptance that, unlike traditional hard copy products, there is some RISK when dealing with digital platofrms. The overwhelming popularity of digital platforms reveal that the risk of losing everything is a risk that most consumers are willing to take.

I think this kind of mindset is going to bite a lot of people in the ass.

Netflix continually rotate movies and TV shows as licence agreements expire and either get renewed or not. There are many films I've watched on Netflix that are no longer available to me.

---
■ Synchronet ■ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!

Re: l
By: Zouf to Ogg on Mon May 17 2021 05:32 pm

2. I wouldn't really count the cost of the internet service in regards to the cost of steaming
conent. I don't think I've known people prior to Netflix to NOT have an internet connection. It'
necessity nowaways. You have an internet connection and also the ability to steam video via a
subscription service. You DO get a lot more for your money than previous times, but I have seen
many people sign up to all the subscription services -- Netflix, Disney and Prime along with
specialist services such as Crunchyroll, etc... the cost builds up.

I think that is only half truth.

I quote a friend of mine: "The reason Spanish ISPs are not complaining against copyright piracy is
that they know they would not sell decent Internet subscriptions if they did."

Maybe most people would have Internet access if they didn't stream or torrent, but they would have
cheaper Internet subscriptions. There are only three reasons to purchase massive bandwidth plans:

* Streaming and downloading torrents and Usenet warez like crazy.
* Playing games (and then, it is more of an issue with latency than bandwidth). * Running Internet facing services that are bandwidth intensive.

The Internet plan I am using to post this message costs me less than 15 bucks per month. If I
wanted to stream movies from here I would have to upgrade from this cheapo plan. I'd have to check
the current offer but I think it would put me in the 60 bucks league. With this assumption, it is
fair to say streaming would cause me a 60 - 15 = 45 eur/month in data overcost.

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

---
■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

Zouf wrote to Dr. What <=-

I think this kind of mindset is going to bite a lot of people in the
ass.

It already has. Many people got burned when they bought into DRM schemes only to have the DRM servers shutdown when the company decided to not support it anymore. And it's not the little guys. Amazon and Microsoft have taken money and left people with nothing.

Netflix continually rotate movies and TV shows as licence agreements expire and either get renewed or not. There are many films I've watched
on Netflix that are no longer available to me.

At least in the case of Netflix, you understand that you are only renting content. They make that pretty clear. Unlike Amazon who says that you are "buying" that DRM-contamined eBook.


... A jerk present in a group indicates a jerk in charge.
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ Diamond Mine Online BBS - bbs.dmine.net:24 - Fredericksburg, VA USA

JIMMY ANDERSON wrote to ELF <=-

AMEN!!!! Tired of everyone trying to get me to become part of THEIR recurring revenue stream.

So I guess you don't want to join my Patreon? :-)

You could start your own patreon and have everyone's recurring revenue
stream be a part of your recurring revenue stream. How delightfully Meta...


... Abandon desire
--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org

Dr. What wrote to Zouf <=-

It already has. Many people got burned when they bought into DRM
schemes only to have the DRM servers shutdown when the company decided
to not support it anymore. And it's not the little guys. Amazon and Microsoft have taken money and left people with nothing.

So has Apple. We have had TV shows and Movies disappear from our
library that we purchased years ago. Let's face it, if you buy DRM
stuff it's not "bought" it is "rented" until the "landlord" says, "no
more."


... Copywight 1991 Elmer Fudd. All wights wesewved
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ Diamond Mine Online BBS - bbs.dmine.net:24 - Fredericksburg, VA USA

On 05-17-21 08:35, Elf wrote to JIMMY ANDERSON <=-

Well, honestly, now that you mention Patreon, that is different. While
I have not joined anyone's Patreon at this point, I must admit I have never discounted the idea. I think because joining someone's Patreon
would be more personal to me, more like supporting one of my peers who
are doing something I really appreciate and want to see continue. It

I support a couple of Patreons, and yes, it is a bit more personal.

feels different than a corporation - *not* that I am a corporation
hater. I do pay for some services monthly like Spotify, Disney+ (annually), Amazon Prime (annually), and Hulu. I just don't want to add
to that list - I don't want EVERYTHING to become a monthly payment that
I feel obligated to pay. :-)

Yeah, I subscribe to Spotify as well, because it's one service and I have my music. I'm really annoyed that the TV/movie distributors each have to have their own revenue stream. That's a big turnoff to subscribing to ANY of those services. I still have my Netflix account (they were there before the proliferation of streaming TV/movie services), but the future of that is now debateable.

... The answer is easier when the question is hypothetical.

Yep. ;)


... Nobody notices when things go right.
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au

Re: l
By: Arelor to Zouf on Tue May 18 2021 02:50 am

I think that is only half truth.

I quote a friend of mine: "The reason Spanish ISPs are not complaining again that they know they would not sell decent Internet subscriptions if they did

Maybe most people would have Internet access if they didn't stream or torren cheaper Internet subscriptions. There are only three reasons to purchase mas

* Streaming and downloading torrents and Usenet warez like crazy.
* Playing games (and then, it is more of an issue with latency than bandwidt * Running Internet facing services that are bandwidth intensive.

The Internet plan I am using to post this message costs me less than 15 buck wanted to stream movies from here I would have to upgrade from this cheapo p the current offer but I think it would put me in the 60 bucks league. With t fair to say streaming would cause me a 60 - 15 = 45 eur/month in data overco

I thought most poeple would natually sign up to a fast fibre connection. I had a barebones $15 per month connection which was perfectly fine for Netflix, YouTube and any other 1080p streaming service. Gaming was great as well as the latency was naturally low and no choke or anything. The only issue I had with it was that it was very slow at downloading anything. I was only getting around 1.5 megabytes per second on any download. If I had a 3GB patch for a game like FIFA, it would take me over an hour to complete the transfer. I have since upgraded to a connection with download speed of 8 megabytes per second which is so much better. I was able to download Mass Effect: Legendary Edition on my PS4 overnight which weighed in at over 100GB. My Dad pays around $40 for his conection but he gets a net download speed of 23 megabytes per second. You could literally download a movie faster than it takes for you to get up and go for a pis

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Re: Re: Kobo / books pre-1900
By: Dr. What to Zouf on Tue May 18 2021 08:30 am

Zouf wrote to Dr. What <=-

I think this kind of mindset is going to bite a lot of people in the ass.

It already has. Many people got burned when they bought into DRM schemes on to have the DRM servers shutdown when the company decided to not support it anymore. And it's not the little guys. Amazon and Microsoft have taken mon and left people with nothing.

Netflix continually rotate movies and TV shows as licence agreements expire and either get renewed or not. There are many films I've watched on Netflix that are no longer available to me.

At least in the case of Netflix, you understand that you are only renting content. They make that pretty clear. Unlike Amazon who says that you are "buying" that DRM-contamined eBook.

... A jerk present in a group indicates a jerk in charge.

I think we've pretty much passed the point of no return though in regards to digital online content. There is enough of a market now for goods weighed down with DRM that companies no longer give a shit about traditional mediums. Even next-gen consoles are catered fully towards digital content. I know you can purchase a machine, such as a PS5 or Xbox Series X, with or without a disc drive, but ALL the games require massive patches when installed with a disc. In the future, say 20 years from now, you cannot simply purchase a computer game from eBay in disc form and expect to play it on your 'retro' machine as the online services will no longer exist. Every game
requies a 20+GB patch to become funtional. DVD and Blu-Ray sales are dipping also as ultra fast fibre connections are becoming cheaper and more accessible and 4K streaming is available to most people.

The ALL digital future is near.

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Zouf wrote to Dr. What <=-

The ALL digital future is near.

But it doesn't have to be on the Corporate terms.

If I want to read an eBook, or play a game, and I don't care about being able to redo that year year, and the price is right for that effective-one-time use, then DRMed content is fine.

Personally, I think it all comes down to value. If the paper book (yes, they still make those) is $20, but the DRM-contamined eBook version is the same, then that's a poor value and people will shy away.

As more people get burned by not being able to access their DRMed content (without any compensation), they will turn away from these sources. The market will always have an alternative.

And remember: It only takes 1 person to break the lock to let everyone have the content for free. And if customers feel cheated by DRMed content, they won't have any compulsion against taking it for free.


... "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar" - Freud
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POINDEXTER FORTRAN wrote to JIMMY ANDERSON <=-

AMEN!!!! Tired of everyone trying to get me to become part of THEIR recurring revenue stream.

So I guess you don't want to join my Patreon? :-)

You could start your own patreon and have everyone's recurring revenue stream be a part of your recurring revenue stream. How delightfully Meta...

Almost like a pyramid. :-)

I actuallY DO have a patreon



... Overmedicated? We have a prescription for that!
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Re: Re: Kobo / books pre-1900
By: Dr. What to Zouf on Fri May 21 2021 08:26 am

Zouf wrote to Dr. What <=-

The ALL digital future is near.

But it doesn't have to be on the Corporate terms.

If I want to read an eBook, or play a game, and I don't care about being abl to redo that year year, and the price is right for that effective-one-time u then DRMed content is fine.

Personally, I think it all comes down to value. If the paper book (yes, the still make those) is $20, but the DRM-contamined eBook version is the same, then that's a poor value and people will shy away.

As more people get burned by not being able to access their DRMed content (without any compensation), they will turn away from these sources. The mar will always have an alternative.

And remember: It only takes 1 person to break the lock to let everyone have content for free. And if customers feel cheated by DRMed content, they won' have any compulsion against taking it for free.

... "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar" - Freud

I have the same concerns as everyone else re DRM'd content as there is the ever present danger of digital book burning. If we end up in a situation where most of our knowledge and ideas are held in the databanks of large corporations, they'll become emboldened enough to purge content that doesn't align with their corporate code of ethics. I think that's the main reason hard copies are so damn important.

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