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  • Those first dev jobs blues

    From Zet@VERT/ECBBS to All on Fri Jun 23 17:44:36 2017
    So, I recently moved across the world to start my first official job as a Junior Software developer. I was super excited to be given the opportunity, and I was really looking forward to earning money for doing what I love... Boy what a plot twist...

    I don't really know what I was expecting, but I was completely overwhelmed by the new job. Everyone knows so much more than I do, and I cannot help but feel a little inferior. The guy in charge of training me intimidates the hell out of me too. He's been working on the system since the beginning, and when I ask questions, he always answers it with this "how don't you know that" tone in his voice which really makes me feel stupid.

    Another unexpected problem is that there is not a single comment in the thousands of lines of code. Other than that, it seems that there exists not one document describing how the system works or fits together. The smallest assignments has me hunting for hours instead of actually developing, which is annoying the hell out of me, and also adds to my insecurity. Add to this the fact that I am adept (at best) at speaking the language, and you have a totally unsure and frustrated new employee.

    Why am I telling you all this? Simply, because I need to vent. I am very frustrated, and I am having doubts in my abilities because of this. Luckily I'm not the kind of person to give up easily, and I will keep giving my best, but man is it hard!

    Also, is it normal for large companies to not have any comments in their code? I swear if there were at least some vague explaination of the code, I would have been productive so much faster!

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
  • From KK4QBN@VERT/KK4QBN to Zet on Fri Jun 23 19:53:09 2017
    Re: Those first dev jobs blues
    By: Zet to All on Fri Jun 23 2017 17:44:36

    Also, is it normal for large companies to not have any comments in their code? I swear if there were at least some vague explaination of the code, I would have been productive so much faster!

    you think they would, it would be more productive... but on the other hand.. if it is chinese company, there have been issues with motorola paying to have DMR developed for radios, etc and then then TYT or Pofung hires a couple of their developers, along with as much code segment they can bring with them to implement into their own stuff. so it's possible the company wants to stay as vague and segmented as possible with their code.

    --

    Tim Smith (KK4QBN)
    KK4QBN BBS

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    * Synchronet * KK4QBN - kk4qbn.synchro.net - 7064229538 - Chatsworth GA USA
  • From jagossel@VERT/KK4QBN to Zet on Fri Jun 23 23:17:40 2017
    Re: Those first dev jobs blues
    By: Zet to All on Fri Jun 23 2017 17:44:36

    So, I recently moved across the world to start my first official job as a Junior Software developer. I was super excited to be given the opportunity,
    and
    I was really looking forward to earning money for doing what I love... Boy w
    hat
    a plot twist...

    I don't really know what I was expecting, but I was completely overwhelmed b
    y
    the new job. Everyone knows so much more than I do, and I cannot help but fe
    el
    a little inferior. The guy in charge of training me intimidates the hell out
    of
    me too. He's been working on the system since the beginning, and when I ask questions, he always answers it with this "how don't you know that" tone in
    his
    voice which really makes me feel stupid.

    Another unexpected problem is that there is not a single comment in the thousands of lines of code. Other than that, it seems that there exists not
    one
    document describing how the system works or fits together. The smallest assignments has me hunting for hours instead of actually developing, which i
    s
    annoying the hell out of me, and also adds to my insecurity. Add to this the fact that I am adept (at best) at speaking the language, and you have a tota
    lly
    unsure and frustrated new employee.

    Why am I telling you all this? Simply, because I need to vent. I am very frustrated, and I am having doubts in my abilities because of this. Luckily
    I'm
    not the kind of person to give up easily, and I will keep giving my best, bu
    t
    man is it hard!

    Also, is it normal for large companies to not have any comments in their cod
    e?
    I swear if there were at least some vague explaination of the code, I would have been productive so much faster!
    .[0m

    Friend, hang in there. Among you still have the passion for it, that passion is what should motivate you to stay and stick with it.

    The more senior developers should have been more open to the newer developers and shouldn't expect the newer developers to know everything up front. That is one thing I struggle with myself, and greatly appreciate the more experienced developers guiding me with the system. I have been at this same position for over 8 years, and I still don't know the system thourghly.

    I suspect that it is normal for software to not have comments to explain what it is doing. There is a standard where I work: comments should only be used to explain WHY the code is odd, not WHAT thr code is doing. The trade off here is that the code should be, "self-documented", meaning that it should use more meaningful names and does one thing only, should be easy to read and follow.

    It sounds like there is a lot of pressure to get code out the door as quickly as possible. This will lead to nasty cycles between new features followed by critical issues that need to be addressed as soon as possible, Where I work is like that righr now: years of pressure to get new features done, leading to enough unhappy customers question how we do things and logging a lot of criical issues.

    Hang in there, bud. But keep other opportunities open. :)

    -jag
    Code it, script it, automate it!

    ---
    * Synchronet * KK4QBN - kk4qbn.synchro.net - 7064229538 - Chatsworth GA USA
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Zet on Sat Jun 24 17:22:00 2017
    Zet wrote to All <=-

    So, I recently moved across the world to start my first official job as
    a Junior Software developer. I was super excited to be given the opportunity, and I was really looking forward to earning money for
    doing what I love... Boy what a plot twist...

    Sounds like a bit of a tough gig with some signs of poor company culture. Hang in there, but worth keeping an eye open for greener pastures. I hope things improve for you.

    I think it is unreasonable for a company to expect you to know everything off the bat. Every company and job requires some learning - even the non tech related work I do these days requires some basic knowledge of the workplace and where to find things I need, let alone something like software development.

    I also find the lack of comments a bit worrying, because I've always seen comments as valuable "in line" documentation, which help explain what the code does.


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  • From Zet@VERT/ECBBS to All on Tue Jun 27 11:51:36 2017
    Re: Re: Those first dev jobs blues
    By: Vk3jed to Zet on Sat Jun 24 2017 17:22:00

    Thanks a lot for the support guys! I really needed that!

    The thing is just that this is my first dev job out of university, and it is
    as far away from home (physically) as I possibly can be. I am also here on a working permit, and if I lose that (which I will if I lose the job), I'll be sent back home. So I think there is an understandable amount of pressure on me to sort of... make this work. It doesn't really look like I would be losing the job, but this is the sort of thing that is on my mind everytime that I get a snarky answer or a disappointed look...

    With regards to the other devs; I don't think that they are doing this on purpose. The two guys I work with in a team have been working together for the past 4 - 5 years, so I am sure that they can read each other's code and immediately understand what is going on. They have obviously also worked on this project for a long time and know exactly where everything is... I have tried to tell them that I am a little overwhelmed, and then they do try to slow down and explain as much as they can to me, but of course there is work to be done and they can't just stop everything to explain it to some new guy...

    All of this sounds super rational to me, but now the problem is that they keep dropping hints that I am not contributing enough. I have only been in this job for 6 weeks, and I honestly doubt that anyone would (directly out of university and without any experience) just walk in and just take over.

    I think the biggest issue is the fact that these guys have been working together for too long, and lost touch with what it's like to be new and have an inexperienced person in the team.

    And documentation would have helped. That way I could have done more on my own and independetly get to know the system...

    Again, this is just me venting and trying to make myself feel better.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
  • From Mro@VERT/BBSESINF to Zet on Tue Jun 27 22:59:38 2017
    Re: Re: Those first dev jobs blues
    By: Zet to All on Tue Jun 27 2017 11:51 am


    With regards to the other devs; I don't think that they are doing this on purpose. The two guys I work with in a team have been working together for the past 4 - 5 years, so I am sure that they can read each other's code and immediately understand what is going on. They have obviously also worked on this project for a long time and know exactly where everything is... I have tried to tell them that I am a little overwhelmed, and then they do try to slow down and explain as much as they can to me, but of course there is work to be done and they can't just stop everything to explain it to some new guy...

    All of this sounds super rational to me, but now the problem is that they keep dropping hints that I am not contributing enough. I have only been in this job for 6 weeks, and I honestly doubt that anyone would (directly out of university and without any experience) just walk in and just take over.

    I think the biggest issue is the fact that these guys have been working together for too long, and lost touch with what it's like to be new and have an inexperienced person in the team.



    today at work i sat at my desk and listened to the radio.
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  • From Digital Man@VERT to Zet on Tue Jun 27 22:16:29 2017
    Re: Those first dev jobs blues
    By: Zet to All on Fri Jun 23 2017 05:44 pm

    Also, is it normal for large companies to not have any comments in their code?

    No, that is very unusual. In addition to comments, there should (normally) be architecture and design documents, requirements documents, user documents, test plans, etc. If you don't have these documents or comments in the code, it sounds like a very unprofessional organization there.


    digital man

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Zet on Wed Jul 5 09:51:01 2017
    Re: Those first dev jobs blues
    By: Zet to All on Fri Jun 23 2017 05:44 pm

    I don't really know what I was expecting, but I was completely overwhelmed by the new job. Everyone knows so much more than I do, and I cannot help but feel a little inferior. The guy in charge of training me intimidates the hell out of me too. He's been working on the system since the beginning, and when I ask questions, he always answers it with this "how don't you know that" tone in his voice which really makes me feel stupid.

    There seems to be a lot of that out there.. It depends on the company, too. Large companies, particularly high-tech companies that hire many software developers, seem to have a higher chance of that happening. Software developers seem to be an opinionated bunch. Many of them like their own way of doing things and often question other developers' ways of doing things if different from their own. And some may not understand that not everyone has had the same training, so some might have a "how don't you know that" tone as you've mentioned.

    Another unexpected problem is that there is not a single comment in the thousands of lines of code. Other than that, it seems that there exists not one document describing how the system works or fits together. The smallest assignments has me hunting for hours instead of actually developing, which is annoying the hell out of me, and also adds to my insecurity. Add to this the fact that I am adept (at best) at speaking the language, and you have a totally unsure and frustrated new employee.

    I've also seen a lot of code that isn't well commented. It seems that many software developers just aren't in the habit of commenting their code well.. It frustrates me too. And some will even encourage "self-documenting code". I don't think that's always feasable.. Sometimes, the code doesn't make it totally obvious what it's doing. Also, I think it's important to know not only what the code is doing, but why. The *why* is a good thing to put in the comments.
    One thing that also surprised me is that some companies don't have much documentation on the project in general. And when I was in college, we learned about software design documents such as class diagrams, sequence diagrams,
    etc. (UML), and it seems many software developers don't know about those, so of course they aren't going to create such design documents..

    Nightfox

    ---
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  • From Deavmi@VERT/KK4QBN to jagossel on Mon Aug 7 20:53:15 2017
    On 2017-06-24 05:17 AM, jagossel wrote:
    Re: Those first dev jobs blues
    By: Zet to All on Fri Jun 23 2017 17:44:36

    > So, I recently moved across the world to start my first official job as a
    > Junior Software developer. I was super excited to be given the opportunity,
    and
    > I was really looking forward to earning money for doing what I love... Boy w
    hat
    > a plot twist...
    >
    > I don't really know what I was expecting, but I was completely overwhelmed b
    y
    > the new job. Everyone knows so much more than I do, and I cannot help but fe
    el
    > a little inferior. The guy in charge of training me intimidates the hell out
    of
    > me too. He's been working on the system since the beginning, and when I ask
    > questions, he always answers it with this "how don't you know that" tone in
    his
    > voice which really makes me feel stupid.
    >
    > Another unexpected problem is that there is not a single comment in the
    > thousands of lines of code. Other than that, it seems that there exists not
    one
    > document describing how the system works or fits together. The smallest
    > assignments has me hunting for hours instead of actually developing, which i
    s
    > annoying the hell out of me, and also adds to my insecurity. Add to this the
    > fact that I am adept (at best) at speaking the language, and you have a tota
    lly
    > unsure and frustrated new employee.
    >
    > Why am I telling you all this? Simply, because I need to vent. I am very
    > frustrated, and I am having doubts in my abilities because of this. Luckily
    I'm
    > not the kind of person to give up easily, and I will keep giving my best, bu
    t
    > man is it hard!
    >
    > Also, is it normal for large companies to not have any comments in their cod
    e?
    > I swear if there were at least some vague explaination of the code, I would
    > have been productive so much faster!
    > .[0m

    Friend, hang in there. Among you still have the passion for it, that passion is what should motivate you to stay and stick with it.

    The more senior developers should have been more open to the newer developers and shouldn't expect the newer developers to know everything up front. That is
    one thing I struggle with myself, and greatly appreciate the more experienced developers guiding me with the system. I have been at this same position for over 8 years, and I still don't know the system thourghly.

    I suspect that it is normal for software to not have comments to explain what it is doing. There is a standard where I work: comments should only be used to
    explain WHY the code is odd, not WHAT thr code is doing. The trade off here is
    that the code should be, "self-documented", meaning that it should use more meaningful names and does one thing only, should be easy to read and follow.

    It sounds like there is a lot of pressure to get code out the door as quickly as possible. This will lead to nasty cycles between new features followed by critical issues that need to be addressed as soon as possible, Where I work is
    like that righr now: years of pressure to get new features done, leading to enough unhappy customers question how we do things and logging a lot of criical
    issues.

    Hang in there, bud. But keep other opportunities open. :)

    -jag
    Code it, script it, automate it!

    So wise. So wise. :)

    ---
    * Synchronet * KK4QBN - kk4qbn.synchro.net - 7064229538 - Chatsworth GA USA