• Opinion on Pascal

    From Darkages@VERT to All on Wed Nov 16 04:35:11 2016
    What are you opinions on Pascal as a programming language. Like the confusing syntax that I can never get to grips with.

    Regards,
    Tristan B. Kildaire (Deavmi)

    E-mail: deavmi@darkagesbbs.com

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  • From Steven Sheeley@VERT/INFINITY to Darkages on Wed Nov 16 11:28:48 2016
    Hello Darkages!

    16 Nov 16 04:35, you wrote to all:

    What are you opinions on Pascal as a programming language. Like the confusing syntax that I can never get to grips with.

    Pascal is what I am using. Mainly for the cross platform ability. Specifically Free Pascal with the Lazarus IDE. I'm currently coding Wycker, a Log Analyzer, Archiver and Bulletin generator for BBS Software.

    Steven


    ... I call things as I see them; If I didn't see them, I make them up!
    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20160322
    ■ Synchronet ■ Split Infinity BBS - Rupert, WV
  • From Tiny@VERT/PHARCYDE to Darkages on Wed Nov 16 10:59:04 2016
    What are you opinions on Pascal as a programming language. Like the
    syntax that I can never get to grips with.

    Program Ilike;
    begin
    WriteLn('I like it!');
    end.

    --- Ezycom V3.00 01FB001F
    * Origin: Tiny's BBS - tinysbbs.com (723:1/2)
    ■ Synchronet ■ thePharcyde_ telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin)
  • From Accession@VERT/PHARCYDE to Tiny on Wed Nov 16 10:55:00 2016
    Hello Tiny,

    On 16 Nov 16 10:59, Tiny wrote to Darkages:

    Program Ilike;
    begin
    WriteLn('I like it!');
    end.

    Is the "." after "end" a syntax error? :)

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю."
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20160827
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (723:1/1)
    ■ Synchronet ■ thePharcyde_ telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin)
  • From Meh@VERT/NIMBUS to Steven Sheeley on Wed Nov 16 13:01:16 2016
    Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Steven Sheeley to Darkages on Wed Nov 16 2016 11:28 am

    Last programming I did was in the 70's using Time-Share Basic from HP. Also dallied in Fortran.
    Ralph Smole,Sysop.
    The Nimbus BBS
    Briar,TX

    ---
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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Tiny on Thu Nov 17 08:36:00 2016
    Tiny wrote to Darkages <=-

    Program Ilike;
    begin
    WriteLn('I like it!');
    end.

    Haha, that would be my response too. :-)


    ... Old Celts never die, they just have harp failure.
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Accession on Thu Nov 17 08:37:00 2016
    Accession wrote to Tiny <=-

    Program Ilike;
    begin
    WriteLn('I like it!');
    end.

    Is the "." after "end" a syntax error? :)

    Nope, the end of the peogram ends with a ., not a ;


    ... If what you don't know can't hurt you, she's practically invulnerable.
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Darkages on Thu Nov 17 08:39:00 2016
    Darkages wrote to All <=-

    What are you opinions on Pascal as a programming language. Like the confusing syntax that I can never get to grips with.

    I like it, never had trouble with the syntax. For confusing, try obfuscated C (C code deliberately written to be hard to read). :D


    ... It is a good thing for an uneducated man to read books of quotations.
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.
  • From Darkages@VERT to Steven Sheeley on Wed Nov 16 12:31:34 2016
    Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Steven Sheeley to Darkages on Wed Nov 16 2016 11:28 am

    Hello Darkages!

    16 Nov 16 04:35, you wrote to all:

    What are you opinions on Pascal as a programming language. Like the confusing syntax that I can never get to grips with.

    Pascal is what I am using. Mainly for the cross platform ability. Specifical
    ly Free Pascal with the Lazarus

    Steven


    ... I call things as I see them; If I didn't see them, I make them up!

    Something that I did like about Free Pascal was the lovely compiler, `fpc`. The error messages are very clear and it was fun to compile with.

    Regards,
    Tristan B. Kildaire (Deavmi)

    E-mail: deavmi@darkagesbbs.com

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ DarkAges BBS | darkagesbbs.com | 1:19/25 | Wayne, OK
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  • From Darkages@VERT to Tiny on Wed Nov 16 12:32:33 2016
    Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Tiny to Darkages on Wed Nov 16 2016 10:59 am

    What are you opinions on Pascal as a programming language. Like the syntax that I can never get to grips with.

    Program Ilike;
    begin
    WriteLn('I like it!');
    end.


    Add some if statements and then the whole thing with when using end and when not and then to use "then" (which I believe must be used?) and when to use semi-colons. So confusing to me.

    Regards,
    Tristan B. Kildaire (Deavmi)

    E-mail: deavmi@darkagesbbs.com

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ DarkAges BBS | darkagesbbs.com | 1:19/25 | Wayne, OK
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  • From Darkages@VERT to Accession on Wed Nov 16 12:33:19 2016
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Accession to Tiny on Wed Nov 16 2016 10:55 am

    Hello Tiny,

    On 16 Nov 16 10:59, Tiny wrote to Darkages:

    Program Ilike;
    begin
    WriteLn('I like it!');
    end.

    Is the "." after "end" a syntax error? :)

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю."

    No it is not. The main procedure must have a `.` at the end of its "end" unlike the rest of the procedures that end in `;`.

    Regards,
    Tristan B. Kildaire (Deavmi)

    E-mail: deavmi@darkagesbbs.com

    ---
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  • From Accession@VERT/PHARCYDE to Vk3jed on Wed Nov 16 19:54:22 2016
    Hello Vk3jed,

    On 17 Nov 16 08:37, Vk3jed wrote to Accession:

    Program Ilike;
    begin
    WriteLn('I like it!');
    end.

    Is the "." after "end" a syntax error? :)

    Nope, the end of the peogram ends with a ., not a ;

    Well then. I learned something new today! :)

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю."
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20160827
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (723:1/1)
    ■ Synchronet ■ thePharcyde_ telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin)
  • From Zero Reader@VERT/ALKY to Darkages on Wed Nov 16 23:14:00 2016
    On 11/16/16, Darkages said the following...

    Add some if statements and then the whole thing with when using end and when not and then to use "then" (which I believe must be used?) and when to use semi-colons. So confusing to me.

    This is why I like python:

    print "I like it."

    It "types" well as they say.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A31 (Raspberry Pi)
    * Origin: Alcoholiday / Est. 1995 / alco.bbs.io
  • From Darkages@VERT to Vk3jed on Wed Nov 16 23:34:02 2016
    Nope, the end of the peogram ends with a ., not a ;

    ... If what you don't know can't hurt you, she's practically invulnerable. --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    Γûá Synchronet Γûá Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.


    Anything that comes after it will not be run.

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  • From Darkages@VERT to Vk3jed on Wed Nov 16 23:34:50 2016
    I like it, never had trouble with the syntax. For confusing, try obfuscated C (C code deliberately written to be hard to read). :D

    ... It is a good thing for an uneducated man to read books of quotations.
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    Γûá Synchronet Γûá Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.


    Maybe I will check out Pascal again some time in my life.

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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Accession on Thu Nov 17 20:48:00 2016
    Accession wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Nope, the end of the peogram ends with a ., not a ;

    Well then. I learned something new today! :)

    Yep. :)


    ... !enilgat cinataS !eraweB µ
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Darkages on Thu Nov 17 20:49:00 2016
    Darkages wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Anything that comes after it will not be run.

    That's it. It's all coming back to me. :)


    ... Where there's a will, there's a lawsuit.
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    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Darkages on Thu Nov 17 20:50:00 2016
    Darkages wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Maybe I will check out Pascal again some time in my life.

    Yep, give it another whirl. I'm looking forward to relearning myself.


    ... Better one true friend than a hundred relatives.
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.
  • From Darkages@VERT to Accession on Thu Nov 17 00:39:50 2016
    Hello Vk3jed,

    On 17 Nov 16 08:37, Vk3jed wrote to Accession:

    Well then. I learned something new today! :)

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю." --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20160827
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (723:1/1)
    Γûá Synchronet Γûá thePharcyde_ telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin)


    That's good to hear.

    Regards,
    Tristan B. Kildaire (Deavmi)

    E-mail: deavmi@darkagesbbs.com

    ---
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    ■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ telnet://vert.synchro.net
  • From Tiny@VERT/PHARCYDE to Accession on Thu Nov 17 11:27:48 2016
    Quoting Accession to Tiny <=-

    Program Ilike;
    begin
    WriteLn('I like it!');
    end.

    Is the "." after "end" a syntax error? :)

    Not in this case as it's the last line of the program. ;)

    Shawn

    ... Among economists, the real world is considered to be a special case.

    --- EzyBlueWave V3.00 01FB001F
    * Origin: Tiny's BBS - tinysbbs.com (723:1/2)
    ■ Synchronet ■ thePharcyde_ telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin)
  • From Darkages@VERT to Vk3jed on Thu Nov 17 06:25:58 2016
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Vk3jed to Darkages on Thu Nov 17 2016 08:50 pm

    Darkages wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Maybe I will check out Pascal again some time in my life.

    Yep, give it another whirl. I'm looking forward to relearning myself.


    ... Better one true friend than a hundred relatives.

    I like the syntax but I thiunk it could be better. The ekywords confused me.

    But then again many languages have features I am not yet aware of or I am aware of but do not know how they work. Anyway. I shouldn't complain much or at all.

    Regards,
    Tristan B. Kildaire (Deavmi)

    E-mail: deavmi@darkagesbbs.com

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ DarkAges BBS | darkagesbbs.com | 1:19/25 | Wayne, OK
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  • From Poindexter Fortran@VERT/REALITY to Vk3jed on Thu Nov 17 14:01:00 2016
    Vk3jed wrote to Darkages <=-

    Darkages wrote to All <=-

    What are you opinions on Pascal as a programming language. Like the confusing syntax that I can never get to grips with.

    I like it, never had trouble with the syntax.

    I started programming in FORTRAN, then went on to Pascal and C. I'd
    like to get back into PASCAL, reminds me of all of the BBS source code
    I played with in Turbo Pascal.

    Embarcadero now owns TP and they have TP 5.5 available for free - http://cc.embarcadero.com/Free.aspx?id=26015



    ... Powered By Celeron (Tualatin). Engineered for the future.
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
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  • From Mro@VERT/BBSESINF to Vk3jed on Thu Nov 17 17:56:06 2016
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Vk3jed to Darkages on Thu Nov 17 2016 08:49 pm

    Darkages wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Anything that comes after it will not be run.

    That's it. It's all coming back to me. :)




    now i see. it's all coming back to me. said the blind man to his deaf wife as he pissed in the wind.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Darkages on Fri Nov 18 19:04:00 2016
    Darkages wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I like the syntax but I thiunk it could be better. The ekywords
    confused me.

    But then again many languages have features I am not yet aware of or I
    am aware of but do not know how they work. Anyway. I shouldn't complain much or at all.

    I think any language is going to have one issue or another. :)


    ... 'Stupidity, if left untreated, is self-correcting' RAH.
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Poindexter Fortran on Fri Nov 18 19:07:00 2016
    Poindexter Fortran wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I started programming in FORTRAN, then went on to Pascal and C. I'd
    like to get back into PASCAL, reminds me of all of the BBS source code
    I played with in Turbo Pascal.

    I started with BASIC in a couple of dialects - Applesoft and MBASIC for starters, then moved to Pascal. I did use FORTRAN briefly at uni, liked its mathematical functions, especially native support of complex numbers, meaning I didn't have to keep copying and pasting my complex number code (in those days I used TP 3.0, so no unit support). As an electronic engineering student, complex numbers were frequently encountered. :)


    ... If at first you don't succeed - so much for skydiving.
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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Mro on Fri Nov 18 19:07:00 2016
    Mro wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    now i see. it's all coming back to me. said the blind man to his deaf wife as he pissed in the wind.
    ---

    LOL


    ... !edis gnorw eht morf siht ta gnikool era uoY
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.
  • From Darkages@VERT to Poindexter Fortran on Fri Nov 18 10:20:59 2016
    On 2016-11-18 12:01 AM, Poindexter Fortran wrote:
    Vk3jed wrote to Darkages <=-

    Darkages wrote to All <=-

    What are you opinions on Pascal as a programming language. Like the confusing syntax that I can never get to grips with.

    I like it, never had trouble with the syntax.

    I started programming in FORTRAN, then went on to Pascal and C. I'd
    like to get back into PASCAL, reminds me of all of the BBS source code
    I played with in Turbo Pascal.

    Embarcadero now owns TP and they have TP 5.5 available for free - http://cc.embarcadero.com/Free.aspx?id=26015



    ... Powered By Celeron (Tualatin). Engineered for the future.
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
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    Awesome. Fortran has a sexy way of declaring variables

    integer :: age
    age = 2

    or with assignment

    integer :: age = 2

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  • From Steven Sheeley@VERT/INFINITY to Poindexter Fortran on Fri Nov 18 07:35:16 2016
    Hello Poindexter!

    17 Nov 16 14:01, you wrote to Vk3jed:

    I started programming in FORTRAN, then went on to Pascal and C. I'd
    like to get back into PASCAL, reminds me of all of the BBS source code
    I played with in Turbo Pascal.

    Embarcadero now owns TP and they have TP 5.5 available for free - http://cc.embarcadero.com/Free.aspx?id=26015

    I use the FreePascal compiler and the Lazarus IDE for programming currently, mainly because I am looking for cross compatibility and I know pascal (Or at least I did, a few years back).


    Steven


    ... I'm spending a year dead for tax purposes.
    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20160322
    ■ Synchronet ■ Split Infinity BBS - Rupert, WV
  • From Deavmi@VERT/EWBBS to Zero Reader on Fri Nov 18 22:14:07 2016
    On 2016-11-17 01:14 AM, Zero Reader wrote:
    On 11/16/16, Darkages said the following...

    Add some if statements and then the whole thing with when using end and when not and then to use "then" (which I believe must be used?) and when to use semi-colons. So confusing to me.

    This is why I like python:

    print "I like it."

    It "types" well as they say.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A31 (Raspberry Pi)
    * Origin: Alcoholiday / Est. 1995 / alco.bbs.io

    `print` is no longer a keyword in Python3 but in Python2 it is.

    Now we use a function named `print` like so `print("Hello World")`.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Electronic Warfare BBS | telnet://bbs.ewbbs.net
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Steven Sheeley on Sat Nov 19 08:37:00 2016
    Steven Sheeley wrote to Poindexter Fortran <=-

    I use the FreePascal compiler and the Lazarus IDE for programming currently, mainly because I am looking for cross compatibility and I
    know pascal (Or at least I did, a few years back).

    That's the same reason I'm leaning towards FPC/Lazarus. :)


    ... Fear is no great respecter of reason.
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.
  • From Deavmi@VERT/EWBBS to Steven Sheeley on Sat Nov 19 11:59:27 2016
    On 2016-11-18 02:35 PM, Steven Sheeley wrote:
    Hello Poindexter!

    17 Nov 16 14:01, you wrote to Vk3jed:

    I started programming in FORTRAN, then went on to Pascal and C. I'd
    like to get back into PASCAL, reminds me of all of the BBS source code
    I played with in Turbo Pascal.

    Embarcadero now owns TP and they have TP 5.5 available for free - http://cc.embarcadero.com/Free.aspx?id=26015

    I use the FreePascal compiler and the Lazarus IDE for programming currently, mainly because I am looking for cross compatibility and I know pascal (Or at least I did, a few years back).


    Steven


    ... I'm spending a year dead for tax purposes.
    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20160322
    � Synchronet � Split Infinity BBS - Rupert, WV

    Lazarus still has a following and Pascal is not dead. The Nim
    programming language has its compiler written in Pascal.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Electronic Warfare BBS | telnet://bbs.ewbbs.net
  • From Deavmi@VERT/EWBBS to Vk3jed on Sat Nov 19 11:59:45 2016
    On 2016-11-19 12:37 AM, Vk3jed wrote:
    Steven Sheeley wrote to Poindexter Fortran <=-

    I use the FreePascal compiler and the Lazarus IDE for programming currently, mainly because I am looking for cross compatibility and I know pascal (Or at least I did, a few years back).

    That's the same reason I'm leaning towards FPC/Lazarus. :)


    ... Fear is no great respecter of reason.
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    � Synchronet � Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.


    FPC is good.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Electronic Warfare BBS | telnet://bbs.ewbbs.net
  • From Steven Sheeley@VERT/INFINITY to Deavmi on Sat Nov 19 11:42:48 2016
    Hello Deavmi!

    19 Nov 16 11:59, you wrote to me:

    Lazarus still has a following and Pascal is not dead. The Nim
    programming language has its compiler written in Pascal.

    The main reason for me is the fact that most of the BBS software source I can find is in Pascal (Usually TP7 or Delphi) and, instead of reinventing the wheel, it's just eaier to reuse the existing source code, save, of course, the new game I am developing. And, since everything else is in Pascal, I suspect I'll stick with Pascal for CorpWars.

    Steven


    ... The speed of time is one second per second.
    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20160322
    ■ Synchronet ■ Split Infinity BBS - Rupert, WV
  • From Deavmi@VERT/EWBBS to Steven Sheeley on Sun Nov 20 10:48:57 2016
    On 2016-11-19 06:42 PM, Steven Sheeley wrote:
    Hello Deavmi!

    19 Nov 16 11:59, you wrote to me:

    Lazarus still has a following and Pascal is not dead. The Nim programming language has its compiler written in Pascal.

    The main reason for me is the fact that most of the BBS software source I can find is in Pascal (Usually TP7 or Delphi) and, instead of reinventing the wheel, it's just eaier to reuse the existing source code, save, of course, the new game I am developing. And, since everything else is in Pascal, I suspect I'll stick with Pascal for CorpWars.

    Steven


    ... The speed of time is one second per second.
    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20160322
    � Synchronet � Split Infinity BBS - Rupert, WV


    Cooleo.

    Have you tried out Modula-3 as it is a language that I think just for
    fun I would like to learn in the near future. I have some documentation printed on it, filed away in my archives.

    Modula-3 is a Wirthian language (like Pascal is - developed by Niklaus
    Wirth).

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Electronic Warfare BBS | telnet://bbs.ewbbs.net
  • From Deavmi@VERT/EWBBS to Deavmi on Sun Nov 20 10:49:12 2016
    On 2016-11-20 10:48 AM, Deavmi wrote:
    On 2016-11-19 06:42 PM, Steven Sheeley wrote:
    Hello Deavmi!

    19 Nov 16 11:59, you wrote to me:

    Lazarus still has a following and Pascal is not dead. The Nim
    programming language has its compiler written in Pascal.

    The main reason for me is the fact that most of the BBS software
    source I can find is in Pascal (Usually TP7 or Delphi) and, instead of
    reinventing the wheel, it's just eaier to reuse the existing source
    code, save, of course, the new game I am developing. And, since
    everything else is in Pascal, I suspect I'll stick with Pascal for
    CorpWars.

    Steven


    ... The speed of time is one second per second.
    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20160322
    � Synchronet � Split Infinity BBS - Rupert, WV


    Cooleo.

    Have you tried out Modula-3 as it is a language that I think just for
    fun I would like to learn in the near future. I have some documentation printed on it, filed away in my archives.

    Modula-3 is a Wirthian language (like Pascal is - developed by Niklaus Wirth).

    Modula-3 also follows closely to the Pascal syntax.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Electronic Warfare BBS | telnet://bbs.ewbbs.net
  • From Steven Sheeley@VERT/INFINITY to Deavmi on Sun Nov 20 08:59:37 2016
    Hello Deavmi!

    20 Nov 16 10:48, you wrote to me:

    Cooleo.

    Have you tried out Modula-3 as it is a language that I think just for
    fun I would like to learn in the near future. I have some
    documentation printed on it, filed away in my archives.

    Modula-3 is a Wirthian language (like Pascal is - developed by Niklaus
    Wirth).

    Nope, never looked at it. I do PHP, Javascript (Barely) and Pascal currently.

    Steven


    ... Transporter room, beam that Tagline up immediately!
    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20160322
    ■ Synchronet ■ Split Infinity BBS - Rupert, WV
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Steven Sheeley on Mon Nov 21 07:50:00 2016
    Steven Sheeley wrote to Deavmi <=-

    ... Transporter room, beam that Tagline up immediately!

    Tagline is aboard. :D


    ... This tagline is freeware; future support is unavailable.
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  • From Chris@VERT/DMINE to Darkages on Wed Nov 23 23:25:14 2016
    Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Darkages to All on Wed Nov 16 2016 04:35 am

    What are you opinions on Pascal as a programming language. Like the confusin syntax that I can never get to grips with.

    Regards,
    Tristan B. Kildaire (Deavmi)

    E-mail: deavmi@darkagesbbs.com


    I've only messed around with Pascal (FPC specifically) briefly. Can't say I've done anything besides type in a few small listings. I like the syntax and the language in general and wish I had more time to do a project using it. It's one of those languages I remember reading about as a kid and thought it looked good (syntax wise). I only knew basic at the time and this looked like a more powerful basic-done-right. Just never got far with it unfortunately.

    Anyway, I don't find the syntax confusing at all. There's probably a little bit of an adjustment if you're background is in c-like languages. But nothing Earth shattering.

    Are you using it for any projects currently?

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  • From Chris@VERT/DMINE to Poindexter Fortran on Wed Nov 23 23:28:30 2016
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Poindexter Fortran to Vk3jed on Thu Nov 17 2016 02:01 pm

    Embarcadero now owns TP and they have TP 5.5 available for free - http://cc.embarcadero.com/Free.aspx?id=26015



    ... Powered By Celeron (Tualatin). Engineered for the future.

    For those interested, they were offering the Delphi Starter Edition for free. It was still being offered last time I saw. I don't get on Windows much these days, but I downloaded it anyway, because what the hell, that's a great deal. I believe the normal cost is in the vicinity of $200 (less if you are upgrading).


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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Chris on Thu Nov 24 21:11:00 2016
    Chris wrote to Darkages <=-

    I've only messed around with Pascal (FPC specifically) briefly. Can't
    say I've done anything besides type in a few small listings. I like the syntax and the language in general and wish I had more time to do a project using it. It's one of those languages I remember reading about
    as a kid and thought it looked good (syntax wise). I only knew basic at the time and this looked like a more powerful basic-done-right. Just
    never got far with it unfortunately.

    I used to enjoy writing Pascal code when I was in university. Pity I can't easily read any of my old floppies (anyone have a 5.25" drive? ;) ).

    Anyway, I don't find the syntax confusing at all. There's probably a little bit of an adjustment if you're background is in c-like
    languages. But nothing Earth shattering.

    I never found it confusing, and TP had some neat tricks that could save a bit of code. Now to find some time to relearn, I'd like to write some more modern Pascal code. :)


    ... Ethernet (n): Something used to catch the etherbunny.
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  • From Sampsa@VERT/B4BBS to Vk3jed on Thu Nov 24 16:54:00 2016
    Vk3jed wrote to Chris <=-

    @VIA: VERT/FREEWAY
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    @REPLY: <58366BAA.2231.dove-prg@dmine.net>
    @TZ: 1258
    Chris wrote to Darkages <=-

    I've only messed around with Pascal (FPC specifically) briefly. Can't
    say I've done anything besides type in a few small listings. I like the syntax and the language in general and wish I had more time to do a project using it. It's one of those languages I remember reading about
    as a kid and thought it looked good (syntax wise). I only knew basic at the time and this looked like a more powerful basic-done-right. Just
    never got far with it unfortunately.

    I used to enjoy writing Pascal code when I was in university. Pity I can't easily read any of my old floppies (anyone have a 5.25" drive? ;)
    ).

    Anyway, I don't find the syntax confusing at all. There's probably a little bit of an adjustment if you're background is in c-like
    languages. But nothing Earth shattering.

    I personally don't like Pascal, the only reason it became such a big deal
    back in the 80s/early 90s was that it's REALLY easy to write a compiler for
    it.

    Also everything else about it is just kinda crappy, it's a language designed
    to teach comp sci students how to build a compiler, basically.

    We did that exact exercise in year 3 of my CS degree, built a Pascal compiler for this hypothetical machine's CPU's assembler.

    Even Niklaus Wirt*h went on to produce two other languages that he considered the "real world" implementations of a Pascal-like language: Modula-2 and
    Oberon (Oberon is actually sort of nice to be honest but good luck doing anything with it).


    I never found it confusing, and TP had some neat tricks that could save
    a bit of code. Now to find some time to relearn, I'd like to write
    some more modern Pascal code. :)

    TP wasn't confusing, but it sure as hell was unportable. Remember SWAG?

    Like 50%+ of that was just Pascal function/procedure wrappers around
    inline Intel 8086 assembler.

    Pascal was never a good language, it was a "good enough" language in the 80s/90s with the Borland variants but I really hope it would just die a dignified death now.

    So would Wirth, and he invented the damn thing lol :).

    Sampsa


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  • From Deavmi@VERT/EWBBS to Chris on Thu Nov 24 20:27:36 2016
    On 2016-11-24 06:25 AM, Chris wrote:
    Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Darkages to All on Wed Nov 16 2016 04:35 am

    What are you opinions on Pascal as a programming language. Like the confusin
    syntax that I can never get to grips with.

    Regards,
    Tristan B. Kildaire (Deavmi)

    E-mail: deavmi@darkagesbbs.com


    I've only messed around with Pascal (FPC specifically) briefly. Can't say I've
    done anything besides type in a few small listings. I like the syntax and the language in general and wish I had more time to do a project using it. It's one
    of those languages I remember reading about as a kid and thought it looked good
    (syntax wise). I only knew basic at the time and this looked like a more powerful basic-done-right. Just never got far with it unfortunately.

    Anyway, I don't find the syntax confusing at all. There's probably a little bit
    of an adjustment if you're background is in c-like languages. But nothing Earth
    shattering.

    Are you using it for any projects currently?

    ------------------------------------------------------------------
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    I ahd problems with where I could use end and not. In certain scenarois.

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  • From Deavmi@VERT/EWBBS to Chris on Thu Nov 24 20:28:13 2016
    On 2016-11-24 06:25 AM, Chris wrote:
    Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Darkages to All on Wed Nov 16 2016 04:35 am

    What are you opinions on Pascal as a programming language. Like the confusin
    syntax that I can never get to grips with.

    Regards,
    Tristan B. Kildaire (Deavmi)

    E-mail: deavmi@darkagesbbs.com


    I've only messed around with Pascal (FPC specifically) briefly. Can't say I've
    done anything besides type in a few small listings. I like the syntax and the language in general and wish I had more time to do a project using it. It's one
    of those languages I remember reading about as a kid and thought it looked good
    (syntax wise). I only knew basic at the time and this looked like a more powerful basic-done-right. Just never got far with it unfortunately.

    Anyway, I don't find the syntax confusing at all. There's probably a little bit
    of an adjustment if you're background is in c-like languages. But nothing Earth
    shattering.

    Are you using it for any projects currently?

    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    CDP
    The Diamond Mine BBS - telnet://bbs.dmine.net
    The Retro Room - http://forums.delphiforums.com/retroroom ------------------------------------------------------------------

    ---
    � Synchronet � Diamond Mine Online - bbs.dmine.net - Fredericksburg, VA USA

    Not using it for any projects. I am thinking of checking out Modula 3
    oneday (I have some docs. on it printed out, stored in my paper archive)

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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Sampsa on Fri Nov 25 07:07:00 2016
    Sampsa wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I personally don't like Pascal, the only reason it became such a big
    deal back in the 80s/early 90s was that it's REALLY easy to write a compiler for it.

    Also everything else about it is just kinda crappy, it's a language designed to teach comp sci students how to build a compiler, basically.

    Well, interesting bit of history, but can you be more specific, and what do you like in a language?

    We did that exact exercise in year 3 of my CS degree, built a Pascal compiler for this hypothetical machine's CPU's assembler.

    I'm guessing that would be a fairly standard exercise for a CS student in their latter years.

    Even Niklaus Wirt*h went on to produce two other languages that he considered the "real world" implementations of a Pascal-like language: Modula-2 and Oberon (Oberon is actually sort of nice to be honest but
    good luck doing anything with it).

    Modula-2 I have heard of, but not Oberon.


    I never found it confusing, and TP had some neat tricks that could save
    a bit of code. Now to find some time to relearn, I'd like to write
    some more modern Pascal code. :)

    TP wasn't confusing, but it sure as hell was unportable. Remember SWAG?

    No, I don't, actually. But yes, I would agree somewhat unportable. However, I once did manage to port a Morse practice program that I wrote from the DOS version of TP to CP/M. Most of the code went straight over. There were two main parts that needed some inline Z80 assembler that were machine specific for the target machine. They were the tone generation and the character timing loops. The CP/M version needed special functions and procedures written in inline assembler (which I got a friend to do, as it was his Microbee that I was porting the program to) to simulate the built instructions of the DOS version. We did release both the DOS and CP/M versions (with porting instructions for other CP/M machines) to the public domain around 25 years ago, but I haven't seen a trace of it since.

    Like 50%+ of that was just Pascal function/procedure wrappers around inline Intel 8086 assembler.

    Pascal was never a good language, it was a "good enough" language in
    the 80s/90s with the Borland variants but I really hope it would just
    die a dignified death now.

    Well, it did what I wanted at the time. :)

    So would Wirth, and he invented the damn thing lol :).

    LOL.
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  • From Sampsa@VERT/B4BBS to Vk3jed on Fri Nov 25 02:18:00 2016
    Vk3jed wrote to Sampsa <=-


    I personally don't like Pascal, the only reason it became such a big
    deal back in the 80s/early 90s was that it's REALLY easy to write a compiler for it.

    Also everything else about it is just kinda crappy, it's a language designed to teach comp sci students how to build a compiler, basically.

    Well, interesting bit of history, but can you be more specific, and
    what do you like in a language?

    Well, I like most "modern" languages but at the moment my favourite is definitely Python: It's VERY easy to pick up but scales to HUGE apps
    if you want it, it's hard to state all the reasons WHY I like it but I
    guess some of the main ones would be:

    - Nice, clean syntax (Python almost reads like pseudo-code)

    - Multi-paradigm (You can write basically imperitative code that
    looks like C/Pascal, heavily OOP-style code a la Java or even
    almost functional programming style stuff [of which I'm not a
    big fan])

    - Large, modular and uniform standard library (Python has more or
    less everything you can think of in the basic API, but you don't
    HAVE to know all of it to work with the language)

    - Popularity. Sounds stupid, but if an otherwise awesome language
    is used by 500 devs world-wide, you're not going to get a lot of
    new stuff up on GitHub to use. For example I think there are THREE
    different FTN processing libraries (admittedly all flawed) for
    Python.




    We did that exact exercise in year 3 of my CS degree, built a Pascal compiler for this hypothetical machine's CPU's assembler.

    I'm guessing that would be a fairly standard exercise for a CS student
    in their latter years.

    Yeah, definitely, everyone who took a "real" CS course would have taken one
    on compilers and the one a lot people end up implementing is Pascal - because it's just so damn easy to implemnet a Pascal compiler.

    And yeah, it was satisfying to see your for loop turn into a bunch of LOADs, SAVEs and JUMPs. But I wouldn't have wanted to write that compiler in
    Pascal :)



    Even Niklaus Wirt*h went on to produce two other languages that he considered the "real world" implementations of a Pascal-like language: Modula-2 and Oberon (Oberon is actually sort of nice to be honest but
    good luck doing anything with it).

    Modula-2 I have heard of, but not Oberon.

    Oberon is quite cool - it's both a programming language and a whole desktop
    UI, sort of like SmallTalk. I think it still boots in VMware..Have a look:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberon_(operating_system)




    I never found it confusing, and TP had some neat tricks that could save
    a bit of code. Now to find some time to relearn, I'd like to write
    some more modern Pascal code. :)

    TP wasn't confusing, but it sure as hell was unportable. Remember SWAG?

    No, I don't, actually. But yes, I would agree somewhat unportable.

    SWAG was awesome, you could find a TP unit in there to do basically
    ANYTHING (it was like the CPAN [perl] or pip/distutils [Python] for TP)

    Also, somewhat is somewhat of an understatement :)



    Pascal was never a good language, it was a "good enough" language in
    the 80s/90s with the Borland variants but I really hope it would just
    die a dignified death now.

    Well, it did what I wanted at the time. :)

    Same here. But once I learned C I dropped it entirely and then in 1996
    moved on to Java.

    Now I code exclusively in Python (unless I have to do something weird
    and platform specific, then I write a small C library and import it
    into my Python app using ctypes).

    Sampsa


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  • From Christopher Perrault@VERT to Vk3jed on Thu Nov 24 23:01:56 2016
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Vk3jed to Chris on Thu Nov 24 2016 09:11 pm

    I never found it confusing, and TP had some neat tricks that could save a bit of code. Now to find some time to relearn, I'd like to write some more modern Pascal code. :)

    You're not the only one. I'd love to do up a project in FPC. Unfortunately I've been focused on admin related stuff as of late and get little time to do any coding at all (I still need to finish learning Python).

    Pascal is further down the list, but one of these days...

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  • From Christopher Perrault@VERT to Sampsa on Thu Nov 24 23:15:29 2016
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Sampsa to Vk3jed on Thu Nov 24 2016 04:54 pm

    I personally don't like Pascal, the only reason it became such a big deal back in the 80s/early 90s was that it's REALLY easy to write a compiler for it.
    In my programming courses I was using Java and C++, but I came along well after Pascal stopped being used in most colleges. I think it was still being taught in some places at the time,but it was being phased out. We never got around to building compilers (what the hell, I went to a community college).
    But anyway, I'd always assumed it was because Pascal syntax was somewhat close to pseudocode which made it more accessible to new students. Not sure how true that was, but I thought I read it somewhere.

    Even Niklaus Wirt*h went on to produce two other languages that he considered the "real world" implementations of a Pascal-like language: Modula-2 and
    Oberon (Oberon is actually sort of nice to be honest but good luck doing anything with it).


    I do remember reading about Modula and Oberon. If I'm remembering correctly Wirth created these because Pascal was lacking a lot of features at the time (specifically OO implementation), and these were written to kind of flesh out Pascal. I know they didn't get far in terms of adoption, but I am curious how many people might still be using them today.

    I never did use it (I think I tried installing one of them at one point and failed miserably) so can't really speak to the quality of the languages. Are they usable today? Did adding objects to Pascal make them obsolete, or did their differences go beyond that?

    Also wasn't Oberon more than a language and also something of an operating environment (sort of like a built in IDE)?

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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Sampsa on Fri Nov 25 20:44:00 2016
    Sampsa wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Well, I like most "modern" languages but at the moment my favourite is definitely Python: It's VERY easy to pick up but scales to HUGE apps
    if you want it, it's hard to state all the reasons WHY I like it but I guess some of the main ones would be:

    I've heard a lot of good things about Python, haven't got round to looking closely myself yet. From your description, there are a lot of good reasons to give it a go, as well as Python being supported by Mystic. :)

    Yeah, definitely, everyone who took a "real" CS course would have taken one on compilers and the one a lot people end up implementing is Pascal
    - because it's just so damn easy to implemnet a Pascal compiler.

    I see. :-)

    And yeah, it was satisfying to see your for loop turn into a bunch of LOADs, SAVEs and JUMPs. But I wouldn't have wanted to write that
    compiler in Pascal :)

    ;)

    Even Niklaus Wirt*h went on to produce two other languages that he considered the "real world" implementations of a Pascal-like language: Modula-2 and Oberon (Oberon is actually sort of nice to be honest but
    good luck doing anything with it).

    Modula-2 I have heard of, but not Oberon.

    Oberon is quite cool - it's both a programming language and a whole desktop UI, sort of like SmallTalk. I think it still boots in
    VMware..Have a look:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberon_(operating_system)

    Ahh, OK

    I never found it confusing, and TP had some neat tricks that could save
    a bit of code. Now to find some time to relearn, I'd like to write
    some more modern Pascal code. :)

    TP wasn't confusing, but it sure as hell was unportable. Remember SWAG?

    No, I don't, actually. But yes, I would agree somewhat unportable.

    SWAG was awesome, you could find a TP unit in there to do basically ANYTHING (it was like the CPAN [perl] or pip/distutils [Python] for TP)

    Ahh, I see. Most of my TP coding took place under TP3.x, before units came along. :)

    Also, somewhat is somewhat of an understatement :)

    Well, it did what I wanted at the time. :)

    Same here. But once I learned C I dropped it entirely and then in 1996 moved on to Java.

    Yeah, I never got to learn enough C for it to be useful.

    Now I code exclusively in Python (unless I have to do something weird
    and platform specific, then I write a small C library and import it
    into my Python app using ctypes).

    I'll have to take a look at Python. :)



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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Christopher Perrault on Fri Nov 25 20:45:00 2016
    Christopher Perrault wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    You're not the only one. I'd love to do up a project in FPC.
    Unfortunately I've been focused on admin related stuff as of late and
    get little time to do any coding at all (I still need to finish
    learning Python).

    Pascal is further down the list, but one of these days...

    And Python is on my list of things to do. :)


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  • From Sampsa@VERT/B4BBS to Vk3jed on Fri Nov 25 16:46:00 2016
    Vk3jed wrote to Sampsa <=-

    SWAG was awesome, you could find a TP unit in there to do basically ANYTHING (it was like the CPAN [perl] or pip/distutils [Python] for TP)

    Ahh, I see. Most of my TP coding took place under TP3.x, before units came along. :)

    The "units" thing was part of the reason Wirth develped Modula-2 -
    "separate compilation" (i.e. just compiling the bits you've change and then linking all the object code) was a Big Deal back when 300 people would share
    a single VAX, it saved a LOT of CPU of time.

    I remember working on a crazy development system at Nokia (the Networks section, not mobile phones) section back in the mid-90s:

    You'd develop your code in TNSDL (a subset of SDL, this graphical
    flowcharting thing that you could weirdly enough write in text) and C, submitting the compilation job (a VMS DCL shell script) to a queue on the central VAX cluster, and then go for a 3 hour break.

    After 3 hours or so, you'd either get a compile error (missing semi-colon?
    Fix it and recompile for 3 hours again lol) or a binary blob.

    You'd then download said binary blob, write it to a floppy disk, take it
    to THE ACTUAL FAKE DX200 PHONE EXCHANGE in the basement, type some obscure commands at the console and watch a whole room full of blinking lights and electrical relays reboot itself. It was quite spectacular.

    The code would then usually run for roughly 3 milliseconds, crash, print
    out a hex dump of <something>, that you'd take to the gurus upstairs to decipher.

    The next morning they'd tell you to change line X of file Y.

    24 hour+ code + compile + test cycle. With my own office (door and everything):

    BEST JOB EVER!


    Yeah, I never got to learn enough C for it to be useful.

    Well unless you're writing freaking device drivers or code for a spacecraft then it's hard to get C to do useful things in any reasonable amount of
    time (see example above).

    And even for the spacecraft I'd probably use Ada since with C you'd probably end up dereferencing some pointer wrong and your $30 billion space craft now crashes into the Sun ;P


    Now I code exclusively in Python (unless I have to do something weird
    and platform specific, then I write a small C library and import it
    into my Python app using ctypes).

    I'll have to take a look at Python. :)

    Yup, please do. I'm still on version 2.7 (the jump to v3 changes the syntax
    and like all developers [well, I'm more or a dilettante nowadays than a
    real dev] are lazy, so I haven't migrated yet).

    Their own tutorial is pretty decent, picked up the language in like a
    week from it: https://docs.python.org/3/tutorial/

    Sampsa

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  • From Deavmi@VERT/EWBBS to Vk3jed on Fri Nov 25 17:36:28 2016
    On 2016-11-24 01:11 PM, Vk3jed wrote:
    Chris wrote to Darkages <=-

    I've only messed around with Pascal (FPC specifically) briefly. Can't say I've done anything besides type in a few small listings. I like the syntax and the language in general and wish I had more time to do a project using it. It's one of those languages I remember reading about as a kid and thought it looked good (syntax wise). I only knew basic at the time and this looked like a more powerful basic-done-right. Just never got far with it unfortunately.

    I used to enjoy writing Pascal code when I was in university. Pity I can't easily read any of my old floppies (anyone have a 5.25" drive? ;) ).

    Anyway, I don't find the syntax confusing at all. There's probably a little bit of an adjustment if you're background is in c-like
    languages. But nothing Earth shattering.

    I never found it confusing, and TP had some neat tricks that could save a bit of code. Now to find some time to relearn, I'd like to write some more modern
    Pascal code. :)


    ... Ethernet (n): Something used to catch the etherbunny.
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
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    That's cool to hear. Pascal is a great language.

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  • From Deavmi@VERT/EWBBS to Sampsa on Fri Nov 25 17:37:22 2016
    On 2016-11-24 06:54 PM, Sampsa wrote:
    Vk3jed wrote to Chris <=-

    @VIA: VERT/FREEWAY
    @MSGID: <5836BEBC.133.dove-program@freeway.apana.org.au>
    @REPLY: <58366BAA.2231.dove-prg@dmine.net>
    @TZ: 1258
    Chris wrote to Darkages <=-

    I've only messed around with Pascal (FPC specifically) briefly. Can't say I've done anything besides type in a few small listings. I like the syntax and the language in general and wish I had more time to do a project using it. It's one of those languages I remember reading about as a kid and thought it looked good (syntax wise). I only knew basic at the time and this looked like a more powerful basic-done-right. Just never got far with it unfortunately.

    I used to enjoy writing Pascal code when I was in university. Pity I can't easily read any of my old floppies (anyone have a 5.25" drive? ;) ).

    Anyway, I don't find the syntax confusing at all. There's probably a little bit of an adjustment if you're background is in c-like
    languages. But nothing Earth shattering.

    I personally don't like Pascal, the only reason it became such a big deal back in the 80s/early 90s was that it's REALLY easy to write a compiler for it.

    Also everything else about it is just kinda crappy, it's a language designed to teach comp sci students how to build a compiler, basically.

    We did that exact exercise in year 3 of my CS degree, built a Pascal compiler for this hypothetical machine's CPU's assembler.

    Even Niklaus Wirt*h went on to produce two other languages that he considered the "real world" implementations of a Pascal-like language: Modula-2 and Oberon (Oberon is actually sort of nice to be honest but good luck doing anything with it).


    I never found it confusing, and TP had some neat tricks that could save a bit of code. Now to find some time to relearn, I'd like to write
    some more modern Pascal code. :)

    TP wasn't confusing, but it sure as hell was unportable. Remember SWAG?

    Like 50%+ of that was just Pascal function/procedure wrappers around
    inline Intel 8086 assembler.

    Pascal was never a good language, it was a "good enough" language in the 80s/90s with the Borland variants but I really hope it would just die a dignified death now.

    So would Wirth, and he invented the damn thing lol :).

    Sampsa


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    Also everything else about it is just kinda crappy, it's a language
    designed to teach comp sci students how to build a compiler, >basically.

    Well, that's still cool.

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  • From Deavmi@VERT/EWBBS to Sampsa on Fri Nov 25 17:38:33 2016
    On 2016-11-24 06:54 PM, Sampsa wrote:
    Vk3jed wrote to Chris <=-

    @VIA: VERT/FREEWAY
    @MSGID: <5836BEBC.133.dove-program@freeway.apana.org.au>
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    Chris wrote to Darkages <=-

    I've only messed around with Pascal (FPC specifically) briefly. Can't say I've done anything besides type in a few small listings. I like the syntax and the language in general and wish I had more time to do a project using it. It's one of those languages I remember reading about as a kid and thought it looked good (syntax wise). I only knew basic at the time and this looked like a more powerful basic-done-right. Just never got far with it unfortunately.

    I used to enjoy writing Pascal code when I was in university. Pity I can't easily read any of my old floppies (anyone have a 5.25" drive? ;) ).

    Anyway, I don't find the syntax confusing at all. There's probably a little bit of an adjustment if you're background is in c-like
    languages. But nothing Earth shattering.

    I personally don't like Pascal, the only reason it became such a big deal back in the 80s/early 90s was that it's REALLY easy to write a compiler for it.

    Also everything else about it is just kinda crappy, it's a language designed to teach comp sci students how to build a compiler, basically.

    We did that exact exercise in year 3 of my CS degree, built a Pascal compiler for this hypothetical machine's CPU's assembler.

    Even Niklaus Wirt*h went on to produce two other languages that he considered the "real world" implementations of a Pascal-like language: Modula-2 and Oberon (Oberon is actually sort of nice to be honest but good luck doing anything with it).


    I never found it confusing, and TP had some neat tricks that could save a bit of code. Now to find some time to relearn, I'd like to write
    some more modern Pascal code. :)

    TP wasn't confusing, but it sure as hell was unportable. Remember SWAG?

    Like 50%+ of that was just Pascal function/procedure wrappers around
    inline Intel 8086 assembler.

    Pascal was never a good language, it was a "good enough" language in the 80s/90s with the Borland variants but I really hope it would just die a dignified death now.

    So would Wirth, and he invented the damn thing lol :).

    Sampsa


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    So would Wirth, and he invented the damn thing lol .

    That's not nice.

    He still contributed to CS. And why wish death on anyone like him?

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  • From Deavmi@VERT/EWBBS to Vk3jed on Fri Nov 25 17:40:00 2016
    On 2016-11-24 11:07 PM, Vk3jed wrote:
    Sampsa wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I personally don't like Pascal, the only reason it became such a big deal back in the 80s/early 90s was that it's REALLY easy to write a compiler for it.

    Also everything else about it is just kinda crappy, it's a language designed to teach comp sci students how to build a compiler, basically.

    Well, interesting bit of history, but can you be more specific, and what do you
    like in a language?

    We did that exact exercise in year 3 of my CS degree, built a Pascal compiler for this hypothetical machine's CPU's assembler.

    I'm guessing that would be a fairly standard exercise for a CS student in their
    latter years.

    Even Niklaus Wirt*h went on to produce two other languages that he considered the "real world" implementations of a Pascal-like language: Modula-2 and Oberon (Oberon is actually sort of nice to be honest but good luck doing anything with it).

    Modula-2 I have heard of, but not Oberon.


    I never found it confusing, and TP had some neat tricks that could save a bit of code. Now to find some time to relearn, I'd like to write
    some more modern Pascal code. :)

    TP wasn't confusing, but it sure as hell was unportable. Remember SWAG?

    No, I don't, actually. But yes, I would agree somewhat unportable. However, I
    once did manage to port a Morse practice program that I wrote from the DOS version of TP to CP/M. Most of the code went straight over. There were two main parts that needed some inline Z80 assembler that were machine specific for
    the target machine. They were the tone generation and the character timing loops. The CP/M version needed special functions and procedures written in inline assembler (which I got a friend to do, as it was his Microbee that I was
    porting the program to) to simulate the built instructions of the DOS version.
    We did release both the DOS and CP/M versions (with porting instructions for other CP/M machines) to the public domain around 25 years ago, but I haven't seen a trace of it since.

    Like 50%+ of that was just Pascal function/procedure wrappers around inline Intel 8086 assembler.

    Pascal was never a good language, it was a "good enough" language in
    the 80s/90s with the Borland variants but I really hope it would just die a dignified death now.

    Well, it did what I wanted at the time. :)

    So would Wirth, and he invented the damn thing lol :).

    LOL.
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    Inline assembler? Is that when you include assembly code within the
    Pascal program (which I am aware you can do)

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  • From Deavmi@VERT/EWBBS to Sampsa on Fri Nov 25 17:42:34 2016
    On 2016-11-25 04:18 AM, Sampsa wrote:
    Vk3jed wrote to Sampsa <=-


    I personally don't like Pascal, the only reason it became such a big deal back in the 80s/early 90s was that it's REALLY easy to write a compiler for it.

    Also everything else about it is just kinda crappy, it's a language designed to teach comp sci students how to build a compiler, basically.

    Well, interesting bit of history, but can you be more specific, and
    what do you like in a language?

    Well, I like most "modern" languages but at the moment my favourite is definitely Python: It's VERY easy to pick up but scales to HUGE apps
    if you want it, it's hard to state all the reasons WHY I like it but I
    guess some of the main ones would be:

    - Nice, clean syntax (Python almost reads like pseudo-code)

    - Multi-paradigm (You can write basically imperitative code that
    looks like C/Pascal, heavily OOP-style code a la Java or even
    almost functional programming style stuff [of which I'm not a
    big fan])

    - Large, modular and uniform standard library (Python has more or
    less everything you can think of in the basic API, but you don't
    HAVE to know all of it to work with the language)

    - Popularity. Sounds stupid, but if an otherwise awesome language
    is used by 500 devs world-wide, you're not going to get a lot of
    new stuff up on GitHub to use. For example I think there are THREE
    different FTN processing libraries (admittedly all flawed) for
    Python.




    We did that exact exercise in year 3 of my CS degree, built a Pascal compiler for this hypothetical machine's CPU's assembler.

    I'm guessing that would be a fairly standard exercise for a CS student in their latter years.

    Yeah, definitely, everyone who took a "real" CS course would have taken one on compilers and the one a lot people end up implementing is Pascal - because it's just so damn easy to implemnet a Pascal compiler.

    And yeah, it was satisfying to see your for loop turn into a bunch of LOADs, SAVEs and JUMPs. But I wouldn't have wanted to write that compiler in
    Pascal :)



    Even Niklaus Wirt*h went on to produce two other languages that he considered the "real world" implementations of a Pascal-like language: Modula-2 and Oberon (Oberon is actually sort of nice to be honest but good luck doing anything with it).

    Modula-2 I have heard of, but not Oberon.

    Oberon is quite cool - it's both a programming language and a whole desktop UI, sort of like SmallTalk. I think it still boots in VMware..Have a look:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberon_(operating_system)




    I never found it confusing, and TP had some neat tricks that could save a bit of code. Now to find some time to relearn, I'd like to write
    some more modern Pascal code. :)

    TP wasn't confusing, but it sure as hell was unportable. Remember SWAG?

    No, I don't, actually. But yes, I would agree somewhat unportable.

    SWAG was awesome, you could find a TP unit in there to do basically
    ANYTHING (it was like the CPAN [perl] or pip/distutils [Python] for TP)

    Also, somewhat is somewhat of an understatement :)



    Pascal was never a good language, it was a "good enough" language in
    the 80s/90s with the Borland variants but I really hope it would just die a dignified death now.

    Well, it did what I wanted at the time. :)

    Same here. But once I learned C I dropped it entirely and then in 1996
    moved on to Java.

    Now I code exclusively in Python (unless I have to do something weird
    and platform specific, then I write a small C library and import it
    into my Python app using ctypes).

    Sampsa


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    Oberon actually sounds interesting.

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  • From Deavmi@VERT/EWBBS to Christopher Perrault on Fri Nov 25 17:44:20 2016
    On 2016-11-25 09:01 AM, Christopher Perrault wrote:
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Vk3jed to Chris on Thu Nov 24 2016 09:11 pm

    I never found it confusing, and TP had some neat tricks that could save a bit of code. Now to find some time to relearn, I'd like to write some more
    modern Pascal code. :)

    You're not the only one. I'd love to do up a project in FPC. Unfortunately I've
    been focused on admin related stuff as of late and get little time to do any coding at all (I still need to finish learning Python).

    Pascal is further down the list, but one of these days...

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  • From Deavmi@VERT/EWBBS to Sampsa on Fri Nov 25 17:55:41 2016
    On 2016-11-25 06:46 PM, Sampsa wrote:
    binary blob
    What's a binary blob?

    ---
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  • From Chris@VERT/DMINE to Deavmi on Fri Nov 25 18:43:01 2016
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Deavmi to Sampsa on Fri Nov 25 2016 05:38 pm

    Pascal was never a good language, it was a "good enough" language in the 80s/90s with the Borland variants but I really hope it would just die a dignified death now.

    So would Wirth, and he invented the damn thing lol :).

    Sampsa


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    So would Wirth, and he invented the damn thing lol .

    That's not nice.

    He still contributed to CS. And why wish death on anyone like him?


    I think you may have misread that. I don't think he was wishing death on Niklaus Wirth. He was wishing death on Pascal and saying that Wirth probably wishes it were dead too.

    I think...

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  • From Chris@VERT/DMINE to Deavmi on Fri Nov 25 18:45:32 2016
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Deavmi to Vk3jed on Fri Nov 25 2016 05:40 pm

    Inline assembler? Is that when you include assembly code within the
    Pascal program (which I am aware you can do)


    Yes. I remember the OS-9 Pascal compilor having this option as well as the C compiler. I'm assuming most implementations probably have that option, but I doubt it get's uses as much today with today's technology.
    Back in the 8-bit days it made more sense to write the more intensive routines in ASM.


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  • From Deavmi@VERT/EWBBS to Chris on Sat Nov 26 11:20:11 2016
    On 2016-11-26 01:45 AM, Chris wrote:
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Deavmi to Vk3jed on Fri Nov 25 2016 05:40 pm

    Inline assembler? Is that when you include assembly code within the
    Pascal program (which I am aware you can do)


    Yes. I remember the OS-9 Pascal compilor having this option as well as the C compiler. I'm assuming most implementations probably have that option, but I doubt it get's uses as much today with today's technology.
    Back in the 8-bit days it made more sense to write the more intensive routines
    in ASM.


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    To make sure that they executed exactly what you wanted? Rather than the doings of abstract Pascal code which you don't know how it will do the task.

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  • From Deavmi@VERT/EWBBS to Chris on Sat Nov 26 11:20:44 2016
    On 2016-11-26 01:43 AM, Chris wrote:
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Deavmi to Sampsa on Fri Nov 25 2016 05:38 pm

    Pascal was never a good language, it was a "good enough" language in the 80s/90s with the Borland variants but I really hope it would just die a dignified death now.

    So would Wirth, and he invented the damn thing lol :).

    Sampsa


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    So would Wirth, and he invented the damn thing lol .

    That's not nice.

    He still contributed to CS. And why wish death on anyone like him?


    I think you may have misread that. I don't think he was wishing death on Niklaus Wirth. He was wishing death on Pascal and saying that Wirth probably wishes it were dead too.

    I think...

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    Oh okay. I guess you can wish death on something if it ain't good. But
    don't forget it atleast. :)

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  • From Sampsa@VERT/B4BBS to Deavmi on Sat Nov 26 15:51:00 2016
    Deavmi wrote to Sampsa <=-

    binary blob
    What's a binary blob?

    Basically in this context, executable machine code.

    .COM files on DOS are basically just binary blobs, a bunch of binary
    machine code that gets loaded into a fixed address in memory and DOS
    then jumps to that address to execute a program.

    .EXE files have a little preamble that says how to set up the code/data segments etc and where to jump to start the program.

    Most modern exectuable format (ELF etc, whatever Windows uses etc) are
    like .EXE files - little structured preamble followed by the code etc.

    But I also use it to mean things like writing Pascal records out straight
    to disk - which is really stupid nowadays, use some kind of standard format like JSON etc, don't just dump a data structure to disk as is.

    OK, if you're dealing with like HUGE amounts of records then fine, I can understand not wanting to parse the stuff but at that point you should
    probably be using some kind of database system anyway.

    Sampsa

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  • From Deavmi@VERT/EWBBS to Sampsa on Sun Nov 27 07:28:15 2016
    On 2016-11-26 05:51 PM, Sampsa wrote:
    Deavmi wrote to Sampsa <=-

    binary blob
    What's a binary blob?

    Basically in this context, executable machine code.

    .COM files on DOS are basically just binary blobs, a bunch of binary
    machine code that gets loaded into a fixed address in memory and DOS
    then jumps to that address to execute a program.

    .EXE files have a little preamble that says how to set up the code/data segments etc and where to jump to start the program.

    Most modern exectuable format (ELF etc, whatever Windows uses etc) are
    like .EXE files - little structured preamble followed by the code etc.

    But I also use it to mean things like writing Pascal records out straight
    to disk - which is really stupid nowadays, use some kind of standard format like JSON etc, don't just dump a data structure to disk as is.

    OK, if you're dealing with like HUGE amounts of records then fine, I can understand not wanting to parse the stuff but at that point you should probably be using some kind of database system anyway.

    Sampsa

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    Thanks for the info.

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  • From Chris@VERT/DMINE to Deavmi on Sun Nov 27 23:11:50 2016
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Deavmi to Chris on Sat Nov 26 2016 11:20 am

    To make sure that they executed exactly what you wanted? Rather than the doings of abstract Pascal code which you don't know how it will do the task.

    I don't have enought experience with it to know. The main reason I've heard for people using inline asm, whether in c or pascal, was performance based. I suppose there are other reasons as you mentioned, I've just never heard them mentioned before.

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  • From Chris@VERT/DMINE to Deavmi on Sun Nov 27 23:14:22 2016
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Deavmi to Chris on Sat Nov 26 2016 11:20 am

    Oh okay. I guess you can wish death on something if it ain't good. But
    don't forget it atleast. :)

    True that. I try not to wish death on anyone (I have about a 90% success rate there).

    But I wish death on products and trends all the time lol.

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  • From Deavmi@VERT/EWBBS to Chris on Mon Nov 28 19:43:08 2016
    On 2016-11-28 06:14 AM, Chris wrote:
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Deavmi to Chris on Sat Nov 26 2016 11:20 am

    Oh okay. I guess you can wish death on something if it ain't good. But don't forget it atleast. :)

    True that. I try not to wish death on anyone (I have about a 90% success rate
    there).

    But I wish death on products and trends all the time lol.

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    Well for me, if something is a fad, it needs no wishing - it will go
    away but as for the way technology is going like with IoT - it ain't a
    fad and I do want it to go away.

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  • From Deavmi@VERT/EWBBS to Chris on Mon Nov 28 19:44:22 2016
    On 2016-11-28 06:11 AM, Chris wrote:
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Deavmi to Chris on Sat Nov 26 2016 11:20 am

    To make sure that they executed exactly what you wanted? Rather than the doings of abstract Pascal code which you don't know how it will do the task.

    I don't have enought experience with it to know. The main reason I've heard for people using inline asm, whether in c or pascal, was performance based. I suppose there are other reasons as you mentioned, I've just never heard them mentioned before.

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    Yeah, I think just the fine grained access to specific instructions
    allow for you to write more specifically what must be done and how
    whereas C could compile to code that does multiple checks on things
    before it executes the specific thing you wanted (however with only C
    you cannot control this drawn-out process).

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  • From Deavmi@VERT/EWBBS to Deavmi on Mon Nov 28 19:44:32 2016
    On 2016-11-28 07:44 PM, Deavmi wrote:
    On 2016-11-28 06:11 AM, Chris wrote:
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Deavmi to Chris on Sat Nov 26 2016 11:20 am

    To make sure that they executed exactly what you wanted? Rather
    than the
    doings of abstract Pascal code which you don't know how it will do
    the task.

    I don't have enought experience with it to know. The main reason I've
    heard
    for people using inline asm, whether in c or pascal, was performance
    based. I
    suppose there are other reasons as you mentioned, I've just never
    heard them
    mentioned before.

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    Yeah, I think just the fine grained access to specific instructions
    allow for you to write more specifically what must be done and how
    whereas C could compile to code that does multiple checks on things
    before it executes the specific thing you wanted (however with only C
    you cannot control this drawn-out process).
    "drawn out"

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  • From Mro@VERT/BBSESINF to Deavmi on Mon Nov 28 22:10:04 2016
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Deavmi to Chris on Mon Nov 28 2016 07:43 pm

    Well for me, if something is a fad, it needs no wishing - it will go
    away but as for the way technology is going like with IoT - it ain't a
    fad and I do want it to go away.



    yeah, but you know fads always come back. sometimes they are in disguise but still, they come back. freaking bell bottoms.
    ---
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  • From Deavmi@VERT/EWBBS to Mro on Tue Nov 29 18:09:33 2016
    On 2016-11-29 06:10 AM, Mro wrote:
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Deavmi to Chris on Mon Nov 28 2016 07:43 pm

    Well for me, if something is a fad, it needs no wishing - it will go
    away but as for the way technology is going like with IoT - it ain't a
    fad and I do want it to go away.



    yeah, but you know fads always come back. sometimes they are in disguise but still, they come back. freaking bell bottoms.
    ---
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    I guess so. But how would IoT re-appear in disguise or is it the bigger picture of privacy issues coming as fads, like first cloud computing,
    then IoT?

    ---
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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Deavmi on Wed Nov 30 16:08:00 2016
    Deavmi wrote to Mro <=-

    I guess so. But how would IoT re-appear in disguise or is it the bigger picture of privacy issues coming as fads, like first cloud computing,
    then IoT?

    Well, the IoT manufacturers are repeating the mistakes of others before them, like wifi router manufacturers, who for a long time supplied their gear with a default password and no wifi security. Before mobile Internet became affordable, it was a common ploy to drive around with a copy of Netstumbler until you found an open network (didn't take long in those days!). If you were courteous, you'd just download your email and leave, if not, maybe surf the web or leech a few files. Of course, some people did put these open networks to more nefarious uses.

    Today, it's a lot less common to see an unsecured wifi AP (unless it's a public hotspot), and mobile Internet is cheap enough anyway, so it's not worth the hassle.

    later came the various attacks on home routers, by accessing them using their default password, and then messing with the configuration (e.g. redirecting DNS to a bogus server that you control, so you can serve up malware, etc).

    Router manufacturers and ISPs eventually woke up, and the routers came with wifi security turned on and either a unique password or they forced one to choose a new password on first login. Some ISPs even configured the router for the customer, before shipping it.

    Now we come to IoT. Here we have a new generation of insecure devices repeating the same mistakes (such as well known default passwords), and now we have malware targetting these devices as easy recruits for a botnet.

    *sigh*
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  • From Eyearrvee@VERT to KK4QBN on Wed Apr 12 21:55:38 2017
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: KK4QBN to Deavmi on Sat Apr 01 2017 10:48 am

    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Deavmi to Ennev on Fri Mar 31 2017 10:54 am

    All the roads lead to Rome.
    Your last line. Does that just mean "all languages do the same thing" o
    r
    can get the same job done (there are exceptions though ;), I'm sure).

    All roads might lead to rome, but you have to fork off and take other roads
    to
    get there, no single road will take you to rome, just as no single programmi
    ng
    language would do 'everything' you would need it to do "I presume". So its n
    ice
    to have options. I find bash scriting to be very helpul, just as anything el
    se
    I can grasp on to, like Qbasic for example :)

    --

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    KK4QBN BBS

    I like Qbasic too. I dont know why. maybe I have a goto mind.
    Irv Handel

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  • From Deavmi@VERT/KK4QBN to Eyearrvee on Thu Apr 13 11:46:04 2017
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: KK4QBN to Deavmi on Sat Apr 01 2017 10:48 am

    r
    to
    ng
    ice
    se

    I like Qbasic too. I dont know why. maybe I have a goto mind.
    Irv Handel
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    The day I discovered goto in C I was like whaaaaaaat?

    +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+
    Tristan B. Kildaire (deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net)
    Info: `finger deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net` +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365
  • From jagossel@VERT/KK4QBN to Deavmi on Thu Apr 13 15:05:12 2017
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Deavmi to Eyearrvee on Thu Apr 13 2017 11:46 am

    The day I discovered goto in C I was like whaaaaaaat?

    It's in C# as well; although, rarely used. Never understood the "goto" in C# or any other OO language.

    Granted I was pretty guilty of using GOTO when I programmed for fun on the TRS-80 CoCo as a kid.

    -jag
    Code it, script it, automate it!

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365
  • From Deavmi@VERT/KK4QBN to jagossel on Thu Apr 13 17:47:30 2017
    Any language with sub routines at the least.

    +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+
    Tristan B. Kildaire (deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net)
    Info: `finger deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net` +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365
  • From Deavmi@VERT/KK4QBN to Deavmi on Mon Apr 17 18:48:50 2017
    On 13/04/2017 23:47, Deavmi wrote:
    Any language with sub routines at the least.

    +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+
    Tristan B. Kildaire (deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net)
    Info: `finger deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net` +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+

    Makes the support for a goto weird.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365
  • From Mortifis@VERT/ALLEYCAT to jagossel on Sat May 27 12:14:00 2017
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Deavmi to Eyearrvee on Thu Apr 13 2017 11:46 am

    The day I discovered goto in C I was like whaaaaaaat?

    It's in C# as well; although, rarely used. Never understood the "goto" in C# or any other OO language.

    Granted I was pretty guilty of using GOTO when I programmed for fun on the TRS-80 CoCo as a kid.

    Did you RETURN?

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Twisted Trucker BBS, Dartmouth NS Canada
  • From Jagossel@VERT/MTLGEEK to Mortifis on Sat May 27 22:29:51 2017
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Mortifis to jagossel on Sat May 27 2017 12:14:00

    Granted I was pretty guilty of using GOTO when I programmed for fun on th TRS-80 CoCo as a kid.

    Did you RETURN?

    Did I GOTO using RETURNs? :D See what I did there?

    As a kid, I used GOTO a lot and never really understood the point of GOSUBS. Now, after being a professional software developer for over 10 years, and
    going through the Usborne programming books from the 1980s that they put online for viewing (thanks to Nostalgia Nerd for providing the link to them in his video description on YouTube), I am finally beginning to see the vaule of GOSUB/RETURN: provides reusability in a structured programming paradigm, if done right. So, it would make sense that BASIC could move from being a structured paradigm to a procedural one fairly easily. Now-a-days, BASIC has become more object oriented (e.g. Visual Basic).

    -jag
    Code it, Script it, Automate it!

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -
  • From Joe Delahaye@VERT/LIONSDEN to Mortifis on Sat May 27 21:48:31 2017
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Mortifis to jagossel on Sat May 27 2017 12:14:00

    The day I discovered goto in C I was like whaaaaaaat?

    It's in C# as well; although, rarely used. Never understood the
    "goto" in C# or any other OO language.

    Granted I was pretty guilty of using GOTO when I programmed for fun on
    the TRS-80 CoCo as a kid.

    Did you RETURN?

    1 If X= Y goto 10
    10 Exit




    Joe

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Lion's Den BBS
  • From Deavmi@VERT/KK4QBN to jagossel on Sun May 28 09:13:56 2017
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: jagossel to Deavmi on Thu Apr 13 2017 15:05:12

    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Deavmi to Eyearrvee on Thu Apr 13 2017 11:46 am

    The day I discovered goto in C I was like whaaaaaaat?

    It's in C# as well; although, rarely used. Never understood the "goto" in C
    #
    or any other OO language.

    Granted I was pretty guilty of using GOTO when I programmed for fun on the TRS-80 CoCo as a kid.

    -jag
    Code it, script it, automate it!

    I need structured programming. Lol. And `goto` is not that.

    +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+
    Tristan B. Kildaire (deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net)
    Info: `finger deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net` +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365
  • From Mro@VERT/BBSESINF to Deavmi on Sun May 28 10:20:59 2017
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Deavmi to jagossel on Sun May 28 2017 09:13 am

    Info: `finger deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net`


    sweet now i know your ip address
    [kk4qbn.synchro.net]
    User: Deavmi #18 In real life: Tristan B. Kildaire
    From: Worcester, ZA Handle: Deavmi
    Birth: 08/25/99 (Age: 17 years) Gender: M
    Shell: lbshell Editor:
    Last login Sun May 28 2017 10:11:51 EDT
    via HTTP from 41.164.54.42 [41.164.54.42]
    No plan.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Mickey@VERT/OXFORDMI to Joe Delahaye on Sun May 28 11:04:00 2017
    On 05/27/17, Joe Delahaye considered the following...

    1 If X= Y goto 10
    10 Exit


    HEY! THATS NOT FAIR!!! Get back here. :-)


    Mick Manning

    Central Ontario Remote BBS
    Telnet: oxfordmi.synchro.net

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A33 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Central Ontario Remote
  • From Jagossel@VERT/MTLGEEK to Joe Delahaye on Mon May 29 19:58:59 2017
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Joe Delahaye to Mickey on Sun May 28 2017 23:01:06

    I still have a working CoCo 3 sitting on the shelf. Tested it the other day the 60 inch TV. Certainly different <G>

    What? Ok, that I have got to see: a Tandy TRS-80 Color Computer 3 hooked up to a 60" TV. :D

    -jag
    Code it, Script it, Automate it!


    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -
  • From Knightmare@VERT/P99BBS to Mortifis on Mon May 29 20:28:18 2017
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Mortifis to jagossel on Sat May 27 2017 12:14 pm

    It's in C# as well; although, rarely used. Never understood the
    "goto" in C# or any other OO language.

    Did you RETURN?


    I think you're confused with GOSUB.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Precinct 99 - p99bbs.homenet.org:2323 - Lewis Center, OH USA
  • From Denn Gray@VERT/OUTWEST to Joe Delahaye on Mon May 29 23:22:49 2017
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Joe Delahaye to Mickey on Sun May 28 2017 11:01 pm

    I still have a working CoCo 3 sitting on the shelf. Tested it the other day on the 60 inch TV. Certainly different <G>

    wow, I have'nt messed with a CoCo since about 1990.
    My 1st computer was a 4k vic 20 then I bought a CoCo 2
    My vic 20 had a casste tape drive lol that was a huge waste loading programs. had dual 5.25 drives on my CoCo.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Outwest BBS - outwestbbs.com - DOORS - Files -Dove-Net
  • From Joe Delahaye@VERT/LIONSDEN to Jagossel on Tue May 30 12:17:05 2017
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Jagossel to Joe Delahaye on Mon May 29 2017 19:58:59

    I still have a working CoCo 3 sitting on the shelf. Tested it the
    other day the 60 inch TV. Certainly different <G>

    What? Ok, that I have got to see: a Tandy TRS-80 Color Computer 3 hooked up to a 60" TV. :D

    Yup. Even played one of my games on it. One of the cartridges.


    Joe

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Lion's Den BBS
  • From Joe Delahaye@VERT/LIONSDEN to Denn Gray on Tue May 30 12:19:13 2017
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Denn Gray to Joe Delahaye on Mon May 29 2017 23:22:49

    I still have a working CoCo 3 sitting on the shelf. Tested it the
    other day on the 60 inch TV. Certainly different <G>

    wow, I have'nt messed with a CoCo since about 1990.
    My 1st computer was a 4k vic 20 then I bought a CoCo 2
    My vic 20 had a casste tape drive lol that was a huge waste loading programs. had dual 5.25 drives on my CoCo.

    Had both tape, and Floppies. Used the dual sided 1/2 height drives with OS9. My buddy spent the money and got a HD interface.


    Joe

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Lion's Den BBS
  • From Chris@VERT/DMINE to Jagossel on Wed Jun 7 23:25:40 2017
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Jagossel to Mortifis on Sat May 27 2017 10:29 pm

    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Mortifis to jagossel on Sat May 27 2017 12:14:00

    Granted I was pretty guilty of using GOTO when I programmed for fun on TRS-80 CoCo as a kid.

    Did you RETURN?

    Did I GOTO using RETURNs? :D See what I did there?

    As a kid, I used GOTO a lot and never really understood the point of GOSUBS. Now, after being a professional software developer for over 10 years, and going through the Usborne programming books from the 1980s that they put onl for viewing (thanks to Nostalgia Nerd for providing the link to them in his video description on YouTube), I am finally beginning to see the vaule of GOSUB/RETURN: provides reusability in a structured programming paradigm, if done right. So, it would make sense that BASIC could move from being a structured paradigm to a procedural one fairly easily. Now-a-days, BASIC ha become more object oriented (e.g. Visual Basic).

    -jag
    Code it, Script it, Automate it!



    I remember gosub basically being the 'less evil' goto. It was a more structured way of calling subroutines. I can't remember if it was used in Basic09 or if it was more a DECB/Gwbasic invention.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    CDP
    The Diamond Mine BBS - telnet://bbs.dmine.net
    The Retro Room - http://forums.delphiforums.com/retroroom ------------------------------------------------------------------

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Diamond Mine Online - bbs.dmine.net - Fredericksburg, VA USA
  • From Chris@VERT/DMINE to Jagossel on Wed Jun 7 23:30:03 2017
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Jagossel to Joe Delahaye on Mon May 29 2017 07:58 pm

    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Joe Delahaye to Mickey on Sun May 28 2017 23:01:06

    I still have a working CoCo 3 sitting on the shelf. Tested it the other the 60 inch TV. Certainly different <G>

    What? Ok, that I have got to see: a Tandy TRS-80 Color Computer 3 hooked up a 60" TV. :D

    -jag
    Code it, Script it, Automate it!


    I haven't seen it on a 60 inch tv yet, but footage from more recent Cocofest meetings show it running on modern led/lcd monitors which I thought was really cool. It's really impressive the amount of development they are doing on Cocos to this day.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    CDP
    The Diamond Mine BBS - telnet://bbs.dmine.net
    The Retro Room - http://forums.delphiforums.com/retroroom ------------------------------------------------------------------

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Diamond Mine Online - bbs.dmine.net - Fredericksburg, VA USA
  • From Jazzy_J@VERT/JAYSCAFE to Chris on Thu Jun 8 15:19:00 2017
    Chris wrote to Jagossel <=-

    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Jagossel to Joe Delahaye on Mon May 29 2017 07:58 pm

    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Joe Delahaye to Mickey on Sun May 28 2017 23:01:06

    I still have a working CoCo 3 sitting on the shelf. Tested it the other the 60 inch TV. Certainly different <G>

    What? Ok, that I have got to see: a Tandy TRS-80 Color Computer 3 hooked up a 60" TV. :D

    -jag
    Code it, Script it, Automate it!


    I haven't seen it on a 60 inch tv yet, but footage from more recent Cocofest meetings show it running on modern led/lcd monitors which I thought was really cool. It's really impressive the amount of
    development they are doing on Cocos to this day.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    CDP
    The Diamond Mine BBS - telnet://bbs.dmine.net
    The Retro Room - http://forums.delphiforums.com/retroroom ------------------------------------------------------------------

    I've got a C64/C128 hooked to a 17" and the capability to put it on the 55" Love it.

    It looks better on a 4:3 ratio than a 19:6. The aspect stays the same, but, there is a lot of death space on the 19:6

    Jazzy_J
    ... 2 + 2 = 5 for extremely large values of 2.
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Jay's Cafe' tn://jayscafe.jayctheriot.com 23
  • From Deavmi@VERT/KK4QBN to Mro on Sun Jun 11 12:50:37 2017
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Mro to Deavmi on Sun May 28 2017 10:20:59

    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Deavmi to jagossel on Sun May 28 2017 09:13 am

    Info: `finger deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net`


    sweet now i know your ip address
    [kk4qbn.synchro.net]
    User: Deavmi #18 In real life: Tristan B. Kildaire
    From: Worcester, ZA Handle: Deavmi
    Birth: 08/25/99 (Age: 17 years) Gender: M
    Shell: lbshell Editor:
    Last login Sun May 28 2017 10:11:51 EDT
    via HTTP from 41.164.54.42 [41.164.54.42]
    No plan.
    Yeah you do. And it ain't actually mine it's the ISPs major NAT.

    +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+
    Tristan B. Kildaire (deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net)
    Info: `finger deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net` +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365
  • From Sam Alexander@VERT to Joe Delahaye on Fri Jun 23 13:29:06 2017
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Joe Delahaye to Mickey on Sun May 28 2017 11:01 pm

    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Mickey to Joe Delahaye on Sun May 28 2017 11:04:00

    I still have a working CoCo 3 sitting on the shelf. Tested it the other day on the 60 inch TV. Certainly different <G>


    Cool! I cut my teeth on the Coco 2 and 3, still have both as well. First BBS I ever called was also on my Coco 2 :)
    Great to seea nother Coco user.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ telnet://vert.synchro.net
  • From Joe Delahaye@VERT/LIONSDEN to Sam Alexander on Fri Jun 23 18:53:13 2017
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Sam Alexander to Joe Delahaye on Fri Jun 23 2017 13:29:06

    I still have a working CoCo 3 sitting on the shelf. Tested it the
    other day on the 60 inch TV. Certainly different <G>


    Cool! I cut my teeth on the Coco 2 and 3, still have both as well. First BBS I ever called was also on my Coco 2 :)
    Great to seea nother Coco user.


    My first computer was a CoCo 1. Modified with internal speakes <G> The 3 also has internal speakers and max memory. We built our own mem expansion cards


    Joe





    ... Now and then an innocent man is sent to the legislature.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Lion's Den BBS
  • From Denn Gray@VERT/OUTWEST to Joe Delahaye on Fri Jun 23 22:06:54 2017
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Joe Delahaye to Sam Alexander on Fri Jun 23 2017 06:53 pm

    I still have a working CoCo 3 sitting on the shelf. Tested it the
    other day on the 60 inch TV. Certainly different <G>


    Cool! I cut my teeth on the Coco 2 and 3, still have both as well. First BBS I ever called was also on my Coco 2 :)
    Great to seea nother Coco user.

    I also started out on a CoCo 2, My brother and I ran our first BBS in 1988 on a CoCo 2 64k ram on a basic program written by my brother.
    I recently found the code of his BBS software out in my garage.
    I scanned it in pdf format and uploaded it to my BBS.
    I also have almost every Rainbow magazine on my BBS in PDF.
    I need to find a CoCo2 or 3 at a yard sale.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ the Outwest BBS - outwestbbs.com
  • From Joe Delahaye@VERT/LIONSDEN to Denn Gray on Sat Jun 24 09:50:34 2017
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Denn Gray to Joe Delahaye on Fri Jun 23 2017 22:06:54

    I still have a working CoCo 3 sitting on the shelf. Tested it the
    other day on the 60 inch TV. Certainly different <G>


    Cool! I cut my teeth on the Coco 2 and 3, still have both as well.
    First BBS I ever called was also on my Coco 2 :)
    Great to seea nother Coco user.

    I also started out on a CoCo 2, My brother and I ran our first BBS in 1988 on a CoCo 2 64k ram on a basic program written by my brother.
    I recently found the code of his BBS software out in my garage.
    I scanned it in pdf format and uploaded it to my BBS.
    I also have almost every Rainbow magazine on my BBS in PDF.
    I need to find a CoCo2 or 3 at a yard sale.


    Not sure if I still have the magazines or not. May have, sicne there are two boxes sitting with the rest of the stuff.


    Joe

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Lion's Den BBS
  • From Roadhog@VERT/OUTWEST to Sam Alexander on Sun Jun 25 18:33:28 2017
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Sam Alexander to Joe Delahaye on Fri Jun 23 2017 01:29 pm

    Cool! I cut my teeth on the Coco 2 and 3, still have both as well. First BBS I ever called was also on my Coco 2 :)
    Great to seea nother Coco user.

    there are many of us that started out on the CoCo, back then it was an awesome machine for the price.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ the Outwest BBS - outwestbbs.com Telnet - outwestbbs.com:23
  • From Deavmi@VERT/KK4QBN to Darkages on Fri Jun 30 03:30:46 2017
    I take this back mostly now as I can use the syntax.

    +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+
    Tristan B. Kildaire (deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net) +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+

    ---
    * Synchronet * KK4QBN - kk4qbn.synchro.net - 7064229538 - Chatsworth GA USA
  • From Deavmi@VERT/USERCLUB to Sam Alexander on Fri Aug 18 06:25:15 2017
    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Joe Delahaye to Mickey on Sun May 28 2017 11:01 pm

    Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
    By: Mickey to Joe Delahaye on Sun May 28 2017 11:04:00

    I still have a working CoCo 3 sitting on the shelf. Tested it the other day on the 60 inch TV. Certainly different <G>


    Cool! I cut my teeth on the Coco 2 and 3, still have both as well. First BBS I ever called was also on my Coco 2 :)
    Great to seea nother Coco user.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ telnet://vert.synchro.net
    You got any compilers on that Coco currently installed?

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ UsersClub BBS - userclub-bbs.com